B-17 Yankee Lady

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Broomstick
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Post by Broomstick »

Heading towards the back of the airplane, now, and winding down with this thread

This is past the bomb bay and ball turret, but looking forward towards the nose

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Gun station:

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Looking towards the back of the airplane - also, the most open area of the whole thing, even if the ceiling is starting to get low.

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A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Broomstick
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Post by Broomstick »

And here's the exit, from the inside:
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This is an interesting tidbit. In addition to the various awards, note the placard:

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This is a military type aircraft and under the federal air regulations shall not be used for the carriage of passenger or cargo for compensation or hire
Alright - then how do they get away with charging $425 a head for ride?

Well, I'm not entirely clear on that, but I'm pretty sure it's connected to this being a museum piece. There's probably some legal nicety of it being a "donation" rather than an airplane ticket. Airplanes that can't be used for "cargo or hire" for money CAN raise money as part of a charitable cause, and the museum being a charitable cause is part of what makes this allowable. Also, the airplane isn't being used for transporting people from point A to point B - it's point A, 'round in a circle, back to point A. You aren't going anywhere. Anyhow, if the Feds didn't allow them to charge for giving rides it would be a hell of a lot harder to keep it flying.

When they move the airplane from, say, Morris back to Willow Run it would probably be a "ferry flight", meaning no extra people, just the minimum needed to fly it safely from one point to another. You definitely couldn't charter it as your own private taxi.

Anyhow, I find it damn impressive this airplane is still flying after all these years. Then again, it's a Boeing, and Boeing has a long reputation of building a durable, long-lasting airplane (assuming proper maintenance and not having it all shot to hell during normal operations). Take care of them, and they last a long, long time.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Broomstick
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Post by Broomstick »

OK, folks - that's the end of the picture show. If you've got questions/comments please chime in.

I'll be starting a new one soon, but due to limited capacity on my domain I may need to take a few of these down in a couple weeks. Just so you know.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Faram
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Post by Faram »

Lovly bird.

Thank you for the photos and the comments.
[img=right]http://hem.bredband.net/b217293/warsaban.gif[/img]

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus


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FSTargetDrone
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

Broomstick wrote:Note the bare-bones nature of this structure. I'm not sure what the cables going by overhead are. They look a lot like the sort of cables used to control flight surfaces, but darn if I know that's what they are or aren't. All the "plumbing" is exposed. (Come to think of it, I didn't see any "facilities" on board. Hmm.... I now have an image of daring young men pissing on Germany through the bomb bay doors....)
Weight considerations were also an issue, with fuel capacity being very important, so a lot of the exposed mechanical and plumbing you saw may be related to that, in some way, perhaps. No coverings over this stuff is weight saved.

Anyway, Broomstick, your speculation isn't far off.. Behold, relief tubes! (and other... things..)
Lois Eveland submitted this story from the memoirs of her late husband, Col. Ivan Wayne Eveland, USAF. Lois lives in Helena, Mont., with a golden retriever named Honey Girl.

During World War II, I was a bomber pilot and squadron commander in the 614th Bombardment Squadron flying out of England. The B-17 bomber was designed for very long missions, and the designers did a great job, but the men who flew them were themselves created with limitations. Among these was the need to relieve oneself at reasonable intervals, especially during combat situations.

The B-17 had a relief tube located at each crew station. It consisted of a funnel attached to a rubber hose, which drained outside the airplane. This worked fine at low altitudes, but at high altitudes where the unpressurized bombers usually flew missions, temperatures were 30 degrees to 50 degrees below zero. Any fluid in the tubes froze eventually, rendering the relief tube inoperable. The result was that many crewmen were hospitalized for frostbite, not only of the hands and feet but also of other vital areas.

To avoid this, some crewmen used their flak helmets as receptacles, but this was definitely a sanitary problem. Our group commander, Col. Hal Bowman, had an epiphany late one night: Why not issue crewmen on each mission a few condoms to carry until needed to heed a nudge from nature? As he said, "Overzealous planners supplied us with enough condoms to last through World War X!"

Bowman phoned Maj. Julius Pickoff, waking him and appointing him group pee officer. He told Pickoff he wanted 2,000 condoms delivered the next morning. Not surprisingly, he had trouble convincing Pickoff he was serious, but Bowman managed to get his message across. Pickoff phoned the supply officer, but the sleepy supply officer didn't believe it, saying, "That dirty old man," and hanging up. Pickoff had to go pull him out of bed to get the condoms to the flight crews in time for the briefing.

Bowman's ingenious solution seemed to have worked. Once a condom was used for relief, it could be set on the floor and within minutes would be frozen solid. While flying over Germany, crewmen threw them overboard as frozen missiles.

Unfortunately, our plane was shot down during a bombing mission over France. While escaping with the help of the French underground, I worried about those blasted condoms. I knew my belongings would be packed up by my adjutant, Dick Mettlen, and be forwarded to my wife as next of kin. I hoped he would go through the pockets of my flight suit and remove any condoms—because I was sure he would realize what a nasty shock seeing those would be to her. After all, she knew nothing about condoms being associated with bomber missions.

I'm happy to report that I made it back to my outfit and made a point of telling my wife what the condom was carried for. Some say it was the specter of having a frozen ball of you-know-what crashing through the roofs of German houses that brought the war to a speedier end. I doubt that. But I do know that the 10 men of my crew were very grateful for a device that had a use no one ever dreamed of—especially my wife.
Anyway, great wrap up with the interior. Later when I'm fully awake and finsihed with work demands I'll be studying these pics in detail.
Alright - then how do they get away with charging $425 a head for ride?

Well, I'm not entirely clear on that, but I'm pretty sure it's connected to this being a museum piece. There's probably some legal nicety of it being a "donation" rather than an airplane ticket. Airplanes that can't be used for "cargo or hire" for money CAN raise money as part of a charitable cause, and the museum being a charitable cause is part of what makes this allowable. Also, the airplane isn't being used for transporting people from point A to point B - it's point A, 'round in a circle, back to point A. You aren't going anywhere. Anyhow, if the Feds didn't allow them to charge for giving rides it would be a hell of a lot harder to keep it flying.

When they move the airplane from, say, Morris back to Willow Run it would probably be a "ferry flight", meaning no extra people, just the minimum needed to fly it safely from one point to another. You definitely couldn't charter it as your own private taxi.
Incidentally, here's a link to a table (inconvenient to quote here) describing the fees for similar kinds of museum aircraft (owned by another organization) at airshows, so you can see why and what they are charging.

I recall there was an issue some years back about the possibility of limiting or even ending guest flights on aircraft such as this for insurance reasons (it was too costly to buy the insurance), but clearly it hasn't ended in this case.
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