Guitar recommendations

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-11-11 06:49pm

I fancy buying a better quality guitar now that I'm decent enough on it to record some stuff. I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to buying guitars (as my first one was a gift), and even more of a noob at altering existing guitars.

Long story short, I don't really care what it looks like (I don't really want to pay over the odds for something just because it looks like something Dimebag used once), but sound-wise I want to achieve something like The Final Absolution or Concreto, or on the outside, something like Core Solution.

Long story short, something with a nice chunky sound perfect for doing staccato palm-muted chugging that also sounds decent on big chordy bits. I am therefore appealing to the guitar players on here, especially the heavier metal guitarists for their brands/models of choice, or reasonably priced (e.g. £300 or less, preferably) ideas for a similar sound to those posted above.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2007-11-11 07:18pm

I was about to tell you to get a TransPerformance guitar which can change tunings on the fly, but then I saw your budget.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2007-11-11 07:24pm

Well, obviously you're going to want something with hotter humbuckers (quite probably EMGs), and a thin neck with a fast, low action. The first question is, what sort of bridge do you want? If you just want a hard-tail Tune-o-matic (Gibson) style bridge, you can get a good guitar for as little as $200. If you want a Floyd Rose though, expect to add another 100, and double that if you want the real thing - triple if you want that newfangled double-ball Floyd (which requires you to buy their strings too).

The real advantage with this sound is that you're not really going for any particularly pretty tone. Any stock pickups will do, as long as they're high output - which means that you can buy cheaper guitars and not notice the more desaturated sound, because of the crazy distortion.

Good companies to look at in this price range are Dean, Jackson, Ibanez, and the resurrected Kramer. They all have cheaper versions of their higher-end guitars, like the Dean Z, or Jackson Dinky. Jackson's JS-30 Randy Rhoads model is extremely good as well, I played one with some proper pups once (Seymour Duncan JB and Jazz), and it was lovely. Of course, like I said, with your sound, all you need is the stock axe. I can't be much more precise than that, sadly, as it all depends on what your fingers like the feel of. But those companies are good starting places.

You can also do pretty good price and review comparisons of various models at http://www.musiciansfriend.com, which will give you some nice up-front research.

Also, aerius reminded me of the new Steinberger guitars. They'll come in right at the upper end of your budget, but they'll be of very good quality.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-11-11 09:25pm

YT300000 wrote:snip

Thanks for that, dude. Those were the brands I was generally looking at.

My initial best price find along those lines is This Kerry King Signature Wartribe, which is listed a bit higher on here. That said, my old guitarist really seemed to hate BC Riches with a passion, so I'm a bit wary. That seems like a good deal, though, since it comes with its own bag (and Kerry King poster, lol).

Alternatively, from a conflicting guitarist friend of mine, I've heard this guitar is pretty decent, and it costs more, which leads me to think it's probably better.

Meanwhile, there's this Dean which while it is a dimebag guitar shape for its own sake, probably has a really nice tone. The guitarist that hated BC Rich guitars loved his Dean and I thought it was great sounding, so I'm a bit conflicted at the moment.

Lastly, there's this BC Rich which I like the look of better, but wonder if I'm getting value for money or just buying aesthetics against the warlock.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2007-11-12 02:18pm

In the end, the only good way to pick your instrument is to actually go to various instrument shops and spend a good amount of time playing instruments until you find one that feels and sounds the best to you. When you are looking, you should be playing through your own amp and if possible, not on a noisy sales floor (a la Guitar Center.) If possible, you should also see if the store has a policy that will allow you to take the instrument home and try it out for a few days. Furthermore, if you end up in a large store such as Sam Ash or Guitar Center, assume the employees know jack shit about music, musical equipment, or for that matter, anything other than taking your money. Chances are all of the previous are true. The only reason they should be in close proximity to you is either to get something down off a high shelf for you or to ring you up. Once you've bought your guitar, be sure to take it to a legit guitar luthier and have it properly set up, as the instruments in music stores are frequently set up poorly.

On the note of B.C. Rich guitar, I haven't had any experience with them personally, but just about every guitarist I know who has played one has complained about poor action and a difficult sound to work with. I suspect that if you get one, you will eventually find yourself replacing the electronics and possibly the neck too.

Amp wise, I recommend that you get rid of the Cube and start checking out tube amps. While they cost more, they are an integral part in achieving any of the typically sought out rock/metal sounds and are often more important that the guitar going into it. From my personal experience, you may want to check out the Marshall JCM 900, JCM 2000, or the ever elusive Plexi heads. You may also find some of the Mesa Boogie stuff to be your liking. While they may be hard to find, also check out amps by Orange. Personally, I would look around for older used amps in places like Craigslist, simply because you can get some better deals, but make sure you know what the going price for any amp in question is, as some people will try to rip off less knowledgeable musicians.

Hope this helps!

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-11-12 04:21pm

I'm not getting rid of the cube, heh, it's fantastic and I got it at trade price from the best guitarist in Bolton before the shop he worked in shut down. He uses one too and when we were in a band had a good Morbid Angel/Cradle of Filth sound coming out of it, and know other guitarists who swear by theirs too, so I'm not going to change that any time soon. Thanks for the advice, though.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2007-11-12 04:33pm

I second the notion to go and try out guitar in person, if possible. Guitars in the low-end price range can vary in quality quite a bit from guitar to guitar and it may take some time to find a good one.

(I have a cheapo mexi p-bass that was only $200, but I literally spent 2 hours at the music store and played every cheap p-bass they had until I found the one with the best tone. It drove the clerks crazy -- I even had one guy play three different basses with my back turned so that my ears could be the final judge -- but I ended up with a sweet sounding bass that didn't set me back very much!)

Keep in mind that most the guitars you're looking at have necks with a large radius (12" to 16", eg some Gibsons, Ibanez, Jackson). Large radius necks are favored by metal players because they allow for easier soloing techniques, but are harder to chord on than a smaller radius neck (~10", eg modern Fenders, other Gibsons). Power chords shouldn't be as much of an issue as full barre chords, but it is something to keep in mind for your particular playing style.

Also, a great resource for user reviews is Harmony Central. The signal/noise ratio can pretty low, but careful reading can reap a wealth of good information from fellow players.

As far as a new amp purchase goes, where will you be using it mostly? Do you mostly jam at home, or will you be jamming with others, or will you be playing on stage with it? I only ask because smaller amps (less than 50-60 watts) are best for jamming at home or with friends; you can crank them for good tone without bothering the neighbors and/or damaging your ears. However, playing live, especially metal, you'll need at least a 100 watt amp, and at least 2x12" speakers, and preferably a 4x12 cab.

Tone-wise, look for amps with lots of tone control. Given the style of music you like to play, you'll probably want something with some active eq, so you can scoop the mids and up the bass. I don't have any specific recommendations (sorry!), but in general, Carvin and Peavey have some good amps in the lower price range, and many of their products are designed for metal players. (I know folks have a lot of scorn for both manufacturers, but plenty of pro players use them, and besides, it's about tone, not image)

See if you can find out what gear your favorite players favor -- that will help you find a line of amps that suits your needs and your ears. A vintage Plexi or JCM900, or even a modern Mesa, are great choices for some classic and enduring tones, but they will set you back a fair amount and may not give you the tone you're looking for.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-11-12 05:07pm

I'm not getting a new amp (that was a foul up in the OP) and I'm fucked for local music shops (they all have shit and overpriced selections that are no use on the off day when I actually have enough time to go), hence why I'm having to resort to the internet.

As it is, I'll probably just wait till there's a steal on ebay on a Dean, Ibanez or Jackson for under £300. This dean is about half the price in the US, too, so I'll probably import it and save a fuckton.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2007-11-12 05:38pm

I understand!

Have you checked out ukguitars.com? I don't anything about them, but they have listings for guitars under £200 and £100.

http://www.ukguitars.com/guitars/electrics_under200.htm

They have a shop as well, in Ripley, which is SW of London, off of the A3. I don't know how close that is to you, but it might be worth a trip just to get your paws and ears closer to a guitar than eBay can.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-11-12 05:50pm

Drewcifer wrote:I understand!

Have you checked out ukguitars.com? I don't anything about them, but they have listings for guitars under £200 and £100.

http://www.ukguitars.com/guitars/electrics_under200.htm

They have a shop as well, in Ripley, which is SW of London, off of the A3. I don't know how close that is to you, but it might be worth a trip just to get your paws and ears closer to a guitar than eBay can.

Hah, nah, that's miles away, and the same guitar Dean razorback DB is twice the price, so I'm just going to import that one from the musician's friend from the US.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2007-11-12 07:43pm

Another thought: If location makes testing out instruments difficult, purchase an instrument online that is an in-between, both pricewise and featurewise. When you do find yourself in an area where a decent music store is at your disposal, find your ideal axe and then sell the interim instrument.

A side note: I should warn you about some of the newer Gibsons being put out. I've known a number of guitarists who have bought higher-end instruments from them recently, only to need extensive work done on them a few weeks later.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2007-11-12 10:45pm

I'm not terribly familiar with BC Rich I'm afraid, as the only one I ever played was a Mockingbird. The tone was a little dry, though not too bad for a metal guitar, but the neck just felt wrong to me. I prefer much lower-radius necks myself, like old Strats, or fat c-shaped Martins. The only metal necks that I really like are those by Kramer and Jackson.

As a final tip, I'll echo what others have said and I forgot to mention: buying used can get you some great deals. Check if your music stores have a used section in the back, look in the classifieds, and check local consignment/used goods stores. All of the guitars I currently own, I bought used. Today actually, I bought a ~1981 Ovation Applause AA-31 with a hard case for $270.

But you do have to be careful, it's easy to get a raw deal. Check the body, neck and especially the fretboard for cracks and poor repairs. Make sure the frets aren't overly worn down, and make sure there isn't buzzing. Check ALL the frets for this (fret jobs can be pretty costly). Make sure the tuners aren't cracked. Make sure the cord jack is secure, and contacts perfectly. Turn the tone and volume pots, make sure they don't hiss. Likewise for selector switches. Check that any whammy bars aren't slowly stripping wood from the inside of the body.

Make sure pickups are snug and fully adjustable. Look at the action, and ensure that you can set it low enough without it buzzing. Ensure that the bridge and stop bar (if applicable) are in good condition. Make absolutely sure that the nut is sturdy. Check that the neck isn't bent unnaturally, which might mean that the truss rod is FUBAR. Make sure that all string trees, screws and covers are there. Also be sure that your strap hooks are strongly attached. If you're going to play live, I recommend buying straplocks anyway, but they're going in the same holes, so ensure it works.

Find and latch onto any opportunity to get a discount. Guitars are always marked up quite a bit, and you can bite into this by getting a monetary discount, a case, a tuner, another cable, or anything to go along with it.

And finally, unless you know exactly what you're looking for, or the guitar instantly feels as natural as walking, don't buy it on your first trip. It's very easy to don rosy-tinted specs and become overexcited. Ideally, you'll want to buy something that you'll still own and play years from now.

And finally (again!), don't look at valve amps until your ear has had a few months to, shall we say, mature to the sound. As soon as you plug into one and proclaim "This is amazing!" you'll be even more overwhelmed than with that first guitar, and probably buy impulsively.

Good luck.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-11-15 01:58pm

I thought I'd update the thread, I've gone and done it!

After a great deal of fucking around (you wouldn't believe how many online music shops in the US won't ship to the UK as part of deals with the manufacturers), I went on ebay and looked at US-based international sellers.

I was close to buying a 7 string Ibanez, but I ended up settling on a Dean ML Phantom/Noir XT, for £243, including shipping prices, saving me a mighty 152 pounds, or 314 dollars.

This site gives lots of approving reviews as do various other places on the web, so I think I made the correct choice, there.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2007-11-15 06:44pm

Nice looking axe!

Just be careful swinging it around as basswood is a soft wood and can dent pretty easily. Too, sometimes basswood can be a little honky with the mids and a little light on bass, so don't be surprised if you have to spend some time with your amp's eq to get your tone dialed in.

The explorer/star style is a nice body shape -- well balanced and comfortable to play, even while sitting -- and it'll help even out the weight of that monster Dean headstock!

Let us know when you get it, and if you need any help with getting it set up. And don't forget to post some rock out pics with your new baby!

\m/

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2007-11-15 11:14pm

Zuul wrote:I thought I'd update the thread, I've gone and done it!

After a great deal of fucking around (you wouldn't believe how many online music shops in the US won't ship to the UK as part of deals with the manufacturers), I went on ebay and looked at US-based international sellers.

I was close to buying a 7 string Ibanez, but I ended up settling on a Dean ML Phantom/Noir XT, for £243, including shipping prices, saving me a mighty 152 pounds, or 314 dollars.

This site gives lots of approving reviews as do various other places on the web, so I think I made the correct choice, there.

Very nice, and good on you for not taking the Ibanez. Starting out on a 7-string would not be the most intuitive thing.

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2007-11-16 02:25pm

I regret missing this thread, but I doubt I'd have been much help anyways since I'm a bit of a high roller when it comes to guitars and equipment, and my advice would've probably gone a little like "save your beans for something better"

. Still, if you can record what you've got, that'd be interesting to see how well she plays. I have little or no interest in Deans and you'll probably need hotter pickups (scratch that, more like a studio full of rackmounts) if you want to sound like AN, but I'd be interested just the same.