Crossover stupidity - Not for dial up! Oh the humanity!

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2006-11-16 10:08pm

Stark wrote:And people say comics aren't written by fanboys.

Most are. Much like fanfiction, however, 90% of them are shit.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-11-17 01:19am

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-11-17 01:24am

Awesome!! Even Superman digs Spinal Tap!

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-11-17 01:26am

Hey wait a fucking second... When the fuck are these crossover writters going to remember that you are VULNERABLE to magic Supes? Juggernaut, Thor, Hercules aren't all these guys powers derived from magic? Where the hell is Doctor Strange when you need him?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-11-17 01:30am

havokeff wrote:Hey wait a fucking second... When the fuck are these crossover writters going to remember that you are VULNERABLE to magic Supes? Juggernaut, Thor, Hercules aren't all these guys powers derived from magic? Where the hell is Doctor Strange when you need him?

They seem to forget that he's vulnerable to magic in the DCverse at times, as well. He's taken down Captain Marvel on more than a couple of occasions.

Yeah, I liked the Spinal Tap reference too.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-11-17 01:32am

On the Venom "debate". Perhaps the symbiote is from a planet that has a red sun and that gives it a little boost against Supes.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-17 01:36am

See, that's why crossovers suck. They're full of fanwankish bullshit like that: let's go out of our way to show Supes casually dealing with one of the strongest Marvel guys... for a laugh! That'd be awesome!

It'd be MORE awesome with the whole fight was full of penis-in-hand fanfiction dialogue, though. And remember, in next years crossover we can do it all again! THAT is solid awesome!

And you can make it all better by referring to the guy you just beat in five seconds as 'a tough opponent'.

Comic authors are so crap.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-11-17 01:37am

havokeff wrote:On the Venom "debate". Perhaps the symbiote is from a planet that has a red sun and that gives it a little boost against Supes.

Hey, I'm all for Mullet Superman getting his ass kicked as much as the next guy (since that hack Byrne scaled him down and gave him a mullet), but come on... Venom? Couldn't it at least have been someone in the general ballpark of Supes like Hulk or Thor?

To make things worse, a couple issues prior to the Venom/Superman "fight," Mullet Supes knocked Hulk the fuck out with a roundhouse to the jaw. That's MULLET Supes.

Now, here's further proof that Batman can take the universe.

Bullseye's just lucky that Batman forgot about his Bullseye Repellent Spray in his utility belt.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-17 02:09am

See? Quality. He never misses, because that's his thing - so obviously you have him miss when it's important. Like in that movie where the guy could catch an arrow when he was drunk, but when it really counts he can't. And like the Daredevil movie, where Bullseye misses... for no reason.

That's quality drama, that is. No wonder comicbook writing is lauded the world over!

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2006-11-17 10:07am

havokeff wrote:Hey wait a fucking second... When the fuck are these crossover writters going to remember that you are VULNERABLE to magic Supes? Juggernaut, Thor, Hercules aren't all these guys powers derived from magic? Where the hell is Doctor Strange when you need him?

How vulnerable to magic Superman is open to debate and varies a lot based on the writer.

Some say he's just as vulnerable as everyone else to magic but just because something is magic doesn't mean it's the equivalent of Kryptonite and Red Sun radiation. So while one magic spell might be able to change him into bunny, or mess with his mind, something that's magic powered brute force will effect him the same way as regular brute force.

The other option is that Superman's vulnerability to magic is actually a special weakness. He once was scratched by a vampire's nails. With as durable as he normally is that shouldn't have happened unless for some reason the inherent magic of the vampire completely bipassed Superman's invulnerability.

The novelization of Kingdom Come has Superman vulnerable to magic, cutting himself on Wonder Woman's sword but later, after his battle with Captain Marvel the sword no longer cuts him. Supposedly his special weakness against magic was a personal mental thing that he somehow overcame by changing his thinking when up against Marvel. It's even suggested that Marvel's cape tearing off in Superman's hand when Marvel went after the nukes is the first example of Superman now having the right mind set, or belief, that makes it so he no longer has a special vulnerability to magic.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-11-17 03:23pm

I thought Kingdom Come was an Elseworlds?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-11-17 06:03pm

havokeff wrote:I thought Kingdom Come was an Elseworlds?

It is. Great book, by the way.

Superman was middle aged, and he had been under Earth's yellow sun for so long that kryptonite no longer affected him. I'm pretty sure magic could still hurt him though...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-17 06:10pm

Kingdom Come is awesome. It's probably one of the best Superman stories, and it still can't get away from the whole 'Clark is a moron' thing (what with Diana manipulating him into serving her plan).

'Varies based on writer' is pretty much the deathknell of children's comics right there. There is almost no way to predict what will happen, because it's all writers fiat. LOL Bullseye misses for no reason, huzzah. He has the super power of never missing unless it's actually important that he not miss.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-11-17 06:37pm

Stark wrote:Kingdom Come is awesome. It's probably one of the best Superman stories, and it still can't get away from the whole 'Clark is a moron' thing (what with Diana manipulating him into serving her plan).

'Varies based on writer' is pretty much the deathknell of children's comics right there. There is almost no way to predict what will happen, because it's all writers fiat. LOL Bullseye misses for no reason, huzzah. He has the super power of never missing unless it's actually important that he not miss.

Correction: He never misses against non-Batman foes. This is Batman, remember?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-11-17 06:48pm

While Supes himself is vunerable to magic, I don't think Mjolnir itself is magical, in the sense that it hits just like a normal hammer. It's just that even a normal hammer hurts when Thor hits you with it.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-17 07:07pm

Superman wrote:Correction: He never misses against non-Batman foes. This is Batman, remember?

He misses ALL THE TIME, in the comics/movies/etc. I think he's just misunderstood his power, and it isn't 'always hits' at all, it's 'mess with your head and then fuck you up when you really need it' power.

DP, Mjolnir is magic. It comes back, remember? It crackles with energy and stuff?

Of course Superman can just catch it because 'drama' and 'consisteny' and 'not having hero vs hero fights that last more than a page' isn't important to the comicbook set.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-11-17 09:39pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:While Supes himself is vunerable to magic, I don't think Mjolnir itself is magical, in the sense that it hits just like a normal hammer. It's just that even a normal hammer hurts when Thor hits you with it.

Well even if Mjorn isn't magical, which it is, all of Thor's powers including his lightning is derived from magic. And where is this "mental self imposed vulnerability to magik" BS come from? Did Supes mentaly will his finger to get cut on Wonder Woman's sword in KC?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2006-11-17 10:39pm

Mjolnir is supposed to be heavilly magical. When it's first introduced there is supposedly enchantment that makes it so nothing can stand against it (trees magically splitting in two, top to bottom). Rarely is this shown though after Thor's introduction in "Journey Into Mystery".

Usually that part of the magic only comes into play when Thor is up against technology or something non sentient. Against high end starships Mjolnir has gone through sheilds and bulkheads with no problem (as if by magic). It also went right through the chest of the Air Walker robot once. A robot that easilly kicked the crap out of the FF and stood against the Silver Surfer for a time.

Most of the time though Mjolnir is treated as an "indestructable" hammer that can do other magical things. In early meetings against Hyperion the hammer just bounced off of his chest, later that was explained (and demonstrated) as Thor holding back for safety reasons.

I don't remember if it was Spider-man 2099 or Doom 2099 but there was a fake version of Thor with a technologicaly made hammer that actually showed more of the unstoppable properties of Mjolnir than the real one usually displays. I think it's supposed to be part of Norse mythology that nothing is supposed to be able to stand against it, but then what that might really mean is that nothing had been able to stand against it with Thor weilding it.

I liked that Ultimate Thor was actually able to do some real damage against Ultimate Hulk with Mjolnir. Not that it ended up doing him any good.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-11-17 10:41pm

Didn't his hammer once bounce off of Juggernaut?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-11-17 11:00pm

Batman had prep time in that fight with Bullseye. We all know that Batman can win any fight so long as he has prep time.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2006-11-17 11:10pm

Superman wrote:Didn't his hammer once bounce off of Juggernaut?

Juggs used his own magic forcefield to slow down the hammer so it barely tapped him when it finally hit his chest. He then latched onto the hammer and rode it's return flight back to Thor and smacked the crap out of him.

Later Thor used Mjolnir to lock Juggy's power so he couldn't use the forefield and couldn't keep drawing more power to fight Thor.

Juggy's magic forcefield is interesting in itself since sometimes it's on and sometimes it's not. It seems like most of the time for it to really work well he has to think about it being on because he's been hurt by some pretty mundane stuff at times while some really powerful things haven't hurt him at all.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-11-18 08:30am

Of note Daredevil broke bullseye worse then Bane broke Batman. (or why Bullseye Needed the wolverine treatment. (nanotech to replace the spine, and over 70% of the bones in his body were broken.