Absurd guitar soloing

[NeoGoomba]

On the other hand, that fact that Steve Vai got his ass kicked by Ralph Macchio loses him a lot of cred.

True, but it was really Ry Cooder playing. However, Macchio always has some sort of mystical trainer who helps him overcome obstacles (except alcoholism), so if Vai beat him, there probably would have been some drum punching going on.

[Joe]

And I actually liked the movie Crossroads by the way, because the Robert Johnson legend is probably my favorite piece of American folklore.

[Rye]

Some Mick Thompson stuff.

Nile - Sacrifice unto Sebek.

[Julhelm]

It's actually Steve Vai playing against himself, though. Ry Cooder does the slide parts only, from what I've read.

[HemlockGrey]

Ok, I know I made a post declaring I had left forever, but I was sick today and, being bored, browsed these boards, and as an aspiring guitarist I felt I had to post on this thread; this is something I feel very strongly about. But this is not to be taken as a return or anything.

I hate performances like these. First off, Malmsteen looks like a complete idiot. But that's neither here nor there.

Now this is obviously all personal opinion.

First, I think these performances are little more than the guitarist showing off how amazing and how fast and how good they are at guitar. Look, he's playing two guitar solos at once- who cares? So what? He's a technically excellent guitarist. I would still rather listen to George Thorogood hammer out a shaky three-chord progression.

Once you reach this point, it's no longer about the music, or the mood, or creativity in general. Jimi Hendrix is the greatest guitarist of all time, not because he was the most technically skilled- I'm sure Malmsteen or Vai could blow him away in that regard- but because he so superbly wielded the guitar as an outlet for his own creativity. Listen to "Far Beyond The Sun" and then listen to "Little Wing" or "Voodoo Chile Blues" or Eddie Hazel's masterpiece, the guitar solo on "Maggot Brain." None of them are as blisteringly fast or technically amazing as the solos posted here, but they are superior because the purpose of the solo is not to bury the listener with talent. The sheer power of the "Maggot Brain" solo buries any one of these performances.

These guys just don't realize that less can be more (of the perfomances listed, "Tender Surrender" is the best, precisely because it realizes this principle"). The best thing about rock and roll is that it's not technical proficiency that will make or break you; the most important thing is the music itself. Any of these guys' best work can blown away by intensity and spirit of a basic three-chord rocker.

The work these guys do falls flat on it's face with me because, to me, the guitar work isn't supposed to be the end, it's supposed to be the means.

Of course, this obsession with speed and technical ability has lost favor with almost everyone outside of the smelly losers in the fringe "death metal/doom metal/pretentious bullshit dressed up in demon suits" crowd, so, combined with the slow strangling of rock music by rap (which itself is despised by a lot of pretentious idiots), I predict that these musical abortions will finally die out completely in the next fifteen or twenty years.

[Joe]

While I wouldn't lump in Joe Satriani with the group you're referring to, I basically agree otherwise. Give me Jeff Beck playing 'Cause We've Ended as Lovers over this shit any day of the week, or Hendrix playing anything, for that matter.

[Stile]

<snip>

Eric Clapton is a good example. He can tell more with one repetitive note than others can do with a song.

[Rye]

Hey, has anyone seen the "incredible edible internet" video from Red vs Blue? "Anybody got the new Creed CD?" "Yeah, I have it." "Creed suck! I hate the band you like!" ahhh, those guys....<slaps knee>

Of course, this obsession with speed and technical ability has lost favor with almost everyone outside of the smelly losers in the fringe "death metal/doom metal/pretentious bullshit dressed up in demon suits" crowd,

Ah cool, someone that doesn't know what they're talking about, I also like making up shit about subjects I know nothing about. Can we be friends? "Obsession with speed and technical ability" in death and doom metal, eh? Black Sabbath (at least, songs like Iron Man, Electric Funeral, Black Sabbath etc) are fucking doom metal.

My dying bride have been highly influential in the evolution of modern doom metal, The Cry of Mankind is one of their older songs, and clearly, atmosphere is the main focus of the song, not a determined exercise in showing how amazingly fast they can play.

Speed and technical ability are certainly important in Death Metal, especially Brutal Death Metal, which is where all the speed is concentrated, an example being Nile - Sacrifice unto Sebek, but even then, with all it's speed, if you want to assert they have no texture or decent song structure, you're a fucking idiot, frankly. It's harsher than some old guy, probably with prostate cancer, would play, sure, but that doesn't make it "pretentious" at all.

There are mid-paced and slow death metal acts also, I was in one till recently that was mid-slow paced, and my main band varies the pacing considerably, like in the song Rotting in Obscurity.

The casual dismissal of entire genres, when you know dick-all about them is, I would venture, more pretentious than enjoying a song due to technical proficiency.

OMG look at the BLISTERING speed of Morbid Angel - God of Emptiness, widely regarded as a landmark Death Metal track.

Furthermore, who cares what "almost everyone" outside your own personal tastes think? "Almost everyone" liked Hanson. "Almost everyone" likes hiphop nowadays, and classic rock is more obscure than emo. Fucking EMO.

Classic rock may not be my thing, but I certainly don't think the fans are "pretentious" because I find the music to be pussified and they overflow with gushies about what geniuses they supposedly were. John Lennon's music is certainly pussified, but it's got a simplistic attraction of it's own. I'm not going to say John Lennon fans are airheads because they don't like listening to varying time signatures and blast beats.

so, combined with the slow strangling of rock music by rap (which itself is despised by a lot of pretentious idiots), I predict that these musical abortions will finally die out completely in the next fifteen or twenty years.

Given the rise of metalcore I find this to be your average american-central wank. Yes, we know your country is full of morons that think the earth is 6000 years old, and your kids like hip hop. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Quite clearly, the thread isn't about "waaah, I don't like that music, wah wah" it's about absurd guitar soloing.

[Joe]

John Lennon's music is certainly pussified, but it's got a simplistic attraction of it's own. I'm not going to say John Lennon fans are airheads because they don't like listening to varying time signatures and blast beats.

Fucking bullshit. Listen to the Past Masters version of Revolution some time if you think Lennon's music was "pussified." Or Come Together, for that matter.

Given the rise of metalcore I find this to be your average american-central wank. Yes, we know your country is full of morons that think the earth is 6000 years old, and your kids like hip hop. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Pathetic. And a disservice to the real British guitar heroes, like Clapton, Page, and Beck, all of whom Hemlock could easily be referring to.

[Rye]

John Lennon's music is certainly pussified, but it's got a simplistic attraction of it's own. I'm not going to say John Lennon fans are airheads because they don't like listening to varying time signatures and blast beats.

Fucking bullshit. Listen to the Past Masters version of Revolution some time if you think Lennon's music was "pussified." Or Come Together, for that matter.

Just watching it on Youtube, it's nice enough, but it's still pussified by my standards. Anything less heavy than this is pussified by my standards.

Pathetic. And a disservice to the real British guitar heroes, like Clapton, Page, and Beck, all of whom Hemlock could easily be referring to.

The hell are you talking about? The "demise of rock from rap" and the subsidance of guitar soloes/technical instrumentation is the american-central wank I was referring to, not the nationality of any guitarists.

[HemlockGrey]

I am no longer sick and thus have to resume my regular life, but I thought I ought to at least finish up this thread.

First off, you're right, I don't know much about the classifications of "doom" metal, "death" metal, etc. I apologize for my sweeping generalizations; I haven't missed enough showers to be an expert in that field.

But let me address a few specific points you made.

Furthermore, who cares what "almost everyone" outside your own personal tastes think? "Almost everyone" liked Hanson. "Almost everyone" likes hiphop nowadays, and classic rock is more obscure than emo. Fucking EMO.

I didn't say you had to care, I'm just saying that you ought to be prepared for your beloved genres wasting away into nothingness.

Given the rise of metalcore I find this to be your average american-central wank. Yes, we know your country is full of morons that think the earth is 6000 years old, and your kids like hip hop. Boo-fucking-hoo.

I'm sure you recognize the irony in attacking me for dismissing some subcategory of rock while simultaneously dismissing the single most popular genre of music on the planet.

Since you're a social reject who draws half-naked elves and listens to songs called "Sacrifice unto Sebek" I'm going to assume that you know very little about hiphop. In fact, I'm going to assume you have a childishly carictured view of hiphop as black guys rapping about bitches and guns.

I hope you at least recognize the stunning hyprocrisy in making quotes likes this:

The casual dismissal of entire genres, when you know dick-all about them is, I would venture, more pretentious than enjoying a song due to technical proficiency.

while simultaneously dismissing an phenomally popular, extremely vibrant, rich, and diverse genre of music.

Just watching it on Youtube, it's nice enough, but it's still pussified by my standards. Anything less heavy than this is pussified by my standards.

Nice to see you apparently judge musical quality based on the amount of skulls and decibels a band can cram into a music video.

The hell are you talking about? The "demise of rock from rap" and the subsidance of guitar soloes/technical instrumentation is the american-central wank I was referring to, not the nationality of any guitarists.

Overall rock sales are declining, while as rap sales are steadily rising. This is a fact, I recommend you reconcile yourself to it.

[Rye]

I didn't say you had to care, I'm just saying that you ought to be prepared for your beloved genres wasting away into nothingness.

Since I'm actually involved in the local "scene," one that is certainly more metal based than anything else, I would say this is probably true about popular american culture, which is totally irrelevent to me anyway.

I'm sure you recognize the irony in attacking me for dismissing some subcategory of rock while simultaneously dismissing the single most popular genre of music on the planet.

I'm not dismissing hiphop, I actually like some hip hop (De La Soul and Run DMC mainly, but even, saints preserve me, Eminem) but so what? Hip hop has had some good influence on dance music, also, e.g. Prodigy, Basement Jaxx, and metal. Biohazard for instance, and Fieldy's basslines in Korn were pretty much copied from Ice Cube's, Ice T even had his own rap/metal band once called Body Count. Did you know that?

Since you're a social reject who draws half-naked elves and listens to songs called "Sacrifice unto Sebek" I'm going to assume that you know very little about hiphop.

Yes, well fancy enjoying songs about ancient egypt, we should all be talking about romance or something else that's just repeating the same old nonsense. Creativity is bad, talent is bad, we should simply listen to old men talk about when peggy sue didn't return our calls in the summer of 56 or something over an acoustic matchbox.

Oh and LOLLERCOPTER at "you draw half naked elves, you must be a social outcast," which you came to a star wars vs star trek board to post. What's next, you going to try an beat me with your math puzzles book?

In fact, I'm going to assume you have a childishly carictured view of hiphop as black guys rapping about bitches and guns.

Well, you know what they say about assumption being the mother of all fuckups.

I hope you at least recognize the stunning hyprocrisy in making quotes likes this:

The casual dismissal of entire genres, when you know dick-all about them is, I would venture, more pretentious than enjoying a song due to technical proficiency.

while simultaneously dismissing an phenomally popular, extremely vibrant, rich, and diverse genre of music.

I like hiphop you idiot, I was dismissing America's popular music trends and profound public stupidity as they're irrelevent to the topic.

Nice to see you apparently judge musical quality based on the amount of skulls and decibels a band can cram into a music video.

And you "apparently" judge music on how many old people like it. Of course, I'm not going to say that's what you judge it by, because you probably don't. But you obviously don't have that much sense.

Overall rock sales are declining, while as rap sales are steadily rising. This is a fact, I recommend you reconcile yourself to it.

Same thing was true of saccharine euro-gay-dance-pop in the early 90s, now we have Killswitch Engage on TV (though I'm not a big fan of metalcore) and rubbish groups that nonetheless play their own instruments, like McFly and Funeral For A Friend. I DO NOT CARE about american popular music sales, they are irrelevent to me.

[Joe]

Also, is Black Sabbath really "doom metal", or is that some arbitrary label that fanboys slapped on the band after the fact? Far as I'm aware they never identified themselves as "doom metal."

[Rye]

According to the wiki, they're considered "protodoom" by the official press, and they certainly never called themselves doom metal, (I think Iommi once said they were Heavy Metal) and doom metal was only officially recognised at some time in the 80s. At any rate, they were certainly archetypal when it came to the emergence of doom.I wouldn't expect them to call themselves doom metal since they pioneered the whole supergenre, really.

I'd certainly classify the slower, repetitive, plodding, depressing and heavy musicianship of songs like Black Sabbath pretty much definitively doom. That song is pretty much the best way to convey depression to someone that's never experienced it, imho. It's creepy, atmospheric, slow, tortured, and depressed, which is what doom is all about. The Type O Negative version makes it even doomier and gothic.

This is what doom-metal.com has to say:

Most people agree that Black Sabbath is amongst the most influential bands for all heavy metal in general, and Doom-Metal is no exception. Their early albums 'Black Sabbath', 'Paranoid', 'Master Of Reality', 'Vol. 4', 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath', and 'Sabotage' are all without doubt, masterpieces, and without them Doom-Metal (or even metal in general) would not exist at all.

Whilst Black Sabbath were definitely well ahead of their time, and as such one of a kind, they certainly weren't without their contemporaries (Pentagram, Blue Cheer, Black Widow). Some of the earliest prototypes of Doom-Metal were in fact songs of the late sixties and early seventies that, whilst not wholly doomy, contained countless great riffs that came to shape the sound of Doom-Metal in later years. Such songs include Iron Butterfly's 'Inna Gadda Da Vida'.

One of Black Sabbath's main contemporaries - Pentagram - can be counted as one of the earliest Doom bands around, often intertwining with the band Bedemon one could perhaps best label their style of music as "Proto Doom". Black Sabbath has a huge impact on their sound but they focused more on the doomy side of this style. Thus creating some of the first ever Doom-metal records!

[Julhelm]

Given the amazing popularity of power and progressive metal in Europe and Japan, and death metal in Canada (Particularily Quebec) I don't think we'll see these genres fade away anytime soon. If anything there's been a great resurgence in metal over the past few years.

[Uraniun235]

Yngwie Malmsteen plays, well, it starts out as "Far Beyond the Sun" and then goes nuts.

Oh, barf.

I have a much, much better recording of him playing that that not only sounds like, you know, real music, but is also faster and tighter.

(it's also not compressed all to hell )

This clip of him playing that with the Tokyo Philharmonic is pretty fun in terms of novelty.

(please do not misconstrue my opinions as qualified in any manner as I have only a passing interest in this sort of music)