X-Wing Cockpit?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-16 11:25am

Anyone know where I can find some good shots of the X-Wing cockpit without a pilot? I'm looking for a straight shot of the seat area with the R2-unit in the background.

Post by **Vympel** » 2007-12-16 09:54pm

Link

Not exactly what you're asking for, but it shows a good pic of Luke sitting in the cockpit where you can see the back (it's also great for showing how little room there is in those things).

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-16 11:50pm

Vympel wrote:Link

Not exactly what you're asking for, but it shows a good pic of Luke sitting in the cockpit where you can see the back (it's also great for showing how little room there is in those things).

Yeah, it won't work. I'm going to make a "virtual" cockpit for the "Sullust to Endor" vid. I may have to do it from multiple shots from the movies, like they did in Pink 5.

Post by **Vympel** » 2007-12-17 12:10am

Do you own X-Wing Alliance? It has a virtual cockpit of the X-Wing you can mouse around during flight - not terribly realistic looking, though.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-17 01:54am

Vympel wrote:Do you own X-Wing Alliance? It has a virtual cockpit of the X-Wing you can mouse around during flight - not terribly realistic looking, though.

I do, and it doesn't look good. However, the guys that like to tweak XWA made a better version, so I may be able to use that.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2007-12-17 02:43am

Quick link to screens of the best-quality XWA X-Wing cockpit. I doubt it's what you're looking for. Isn't there a model you can borrow from various modeling websites? Or is rendering it a problem?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-17 03:57am

Alan Bolte wrote:Quick link to screens of the best-quality XWA X-Wing cockpit. I doubt it's what you're looking for. Isn't there a model you can borrow from various modeling websites? Or is rendering it a problem?

Yeah, I have those. The problem is there is no good cockpit shots of the X-Wing without a pilot!

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2007-12-17 10:39pm

Perhaps you could expand upon exactly what you plan to do. I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by a virtual cockpit.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2007-12-17 11:06pm

Ok, question: are you looking for a video shot? A single still image? If all you need is a single still image, and you aren't too concerned about matching photo-realism from the films (public models rarely live up to this standard, and it would be a LOT of time to build a custom one myself), I could probably find an x-wing model with cockpit interior and render whatever views you want.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-17 11:29pm

lPeregrine wrote:Ok, question: are you looking for a video shot? A single still image? If all you need is a single still image, and you aren't too concerned about matching photo-realism from the films (public models rarely live up to this standard, and it would be a LOT of time to build a custom one myself), I could probably find an x-wing model with cockpit interior and render whatever views you want.

Yeah, I'm looking for still images to superimpose a virtual "actor" into to make him look like the pilot of the fighter.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2007-12-18 01:53am

Should be easy enough, assuming I can find a model available for public download, setting up an interior view and rendering is a 5 minute job. Of course finding the model is the real problem... the first one I was just messing with looks decent, but it's way too old. The model itself is fine, but all the textures and materials are from such an old version of 3dsmax that my renderer can't even read them.

I'll look into it a bit more later this week and see if I can find a more recent model. But for now... what exactly are you trying to composite it with? Other CG stuff? A real-life actor? If you're trying to match real-world footage, I'll need to know your camera/lens numbers and a rough idea of the lighting setup you're using.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-18 11:38am

lPeregrine wrote:Should be easy enough, assuming I can find a model available for public download, setting up an interior view and rendering is a 5 minute job. Of course finding the model is the real problem... the first one I was just messing with looks decent, but it's way too old. The model itself is fine, but all the textures and materials are from such an old version of 3dsmax that my renderer can't even read them.

I'll look into it a bit more later this week and see if I can find a more recent model. But for now... what exactly are you trying to composite it with? Other CG stuff? A real-life actor? If you're trying to match real-world footage, I'll need to know your camera/lens numbers and a rough idea of the lighting setup you're using.

Oh no, it will be like my Last Bastion movies, where I greenscreen in virtual actors into static pictures that make a "virtual set"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB1qv6C9Zbo

Thanks for looking into it. I'm after the standard shot of the X-wing pilot facing the camera, so I'll need the cockpit interior with the pilot chair, the R2 unit in the background, and the top two engines visible on either side.

Also, if you could get a reverse angle; the "pilot's view" out of the cockpt, with the control panel at the bottom of the screen, that would be great.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-27 10:18pm

Any luck with this, Peregrine?

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2007-12-28 05:46am

Lord Poe wrote:Any luck with this, Peregrine?

Sorry, I actually completely forgot about this. I'll take a look at it this weekend.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2007-12-31 03:26am

Ok, so after digging through a lot of old and obsolete x-wing models, I've found one that at least imports correctly. The accuracy in some places isn't all that amazing and I'm not going to update all the really old materials with what modern software can do, but I think it'll do the job for what you want. I just need two things, since the renderer I'm using wants real-world physically accurate numbers:

1) What lens are you using? Lens size (in mm), field of view angle, f-stop/shutter speed. The last two are less important, I mostly need them if you want any depth of field tricks, otherwise I'll just use a standard long exposure/no DOF. I know you're not going for photo-real, but without at least a general FOV match, it's going to look really weird.

2) What kind of lighting do you want on this thing? I can set up pretty much anything you want, within reason.

By the way, the model also includes the rest of the ship, so it's just as easy to set up any exterior shots you may need.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-31 04:46am

Peregrine, I'm not using a lens at all. Its a background plate for Sims-like characters to sit in front of.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2007-12-31 03:53pm

Lord Poe wrote:Peregrine, I'm not using a lens at all. Its a background plate for Sims-like characters to sit in front of.

There's no artificial camera in your program? I know it's a game, but I would've thought it had different camera options, zoom lenses, etc. For those dramatic shots, you know. I guess you're just using whatever the default FOV is?

And I guess if you have no lighting preferences, that just leaves one final question: how do you do your compositing? Do you want a .png with transparent windows? Do you want all the transparent bits filled in with a specific color to bluescreen stuff in?

Here's what I have so far (rendered very quickly, so excuse the noise, I'll let your real shots run longer): http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2024/xwing1nx6.png

Let me know if you want me to change the zoom or FOV, otherwise, I'll just let this run a couple hours.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-31 04:41pm

lPeregrine wrote:There's no artificial camera in your program? I know it's a game, but I would've thought it had different camera options, zoom lenses, etc. For those dramatic shots, you know. I guess you're just using whatever the default FOV is?

Yup.

And I guess if you have no lighting preferences, that just leaves one final question: how do you do your compositing? Do you want a .png with transparent windows? Do you want all the transparent bits filled in with a specific color to bluescreen stuff in?

Yes, you can fill it it with a bright florescent green for "greenscreen".

Here's what I have so far (rendered very quickly, so excuse the noise, I'll let your real shots run longer)

I couldn't see much but Artoo. If you can make it just like the movies, where you can see the top two engines on either side as well, that would be great. (Make sure the wings are closed.)

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2007-12-31 06:14pm

Lord Poe wrote:
And I guess if you have no lighting preferences, that just leaves one final question: how do you do your compositing? Do you want a .png with transparent windows? Do you want all the transparent bits filled in with a specific color to bluescreen stuff in?
Yes, you can fill it it with a bright florescent green for "greenscreen".

What's the exact RGB value for the green you're using? I've heard some of the compositing stuff can be pretty picky about using the correct value.

I couldn't see much but Artoo. If you can make it just like the movies, where you can see the top two engines on either side as well, that would be great. (Make sure the wings are closed.)

The top two engines are actually in there, just kind of dark. But I'll see if I can get a bit more in the shot.

This, by the way, is why I wanted to know the lens/FOV stuff, as it's what decides how much of the engines are in view, etc.

edit: http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5715/xwing2xb1.png

How's that look? By the way, I can open the wings if you want.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-31 07:37pm

lPeregrine wrote:What's the exact RGB value for the green you're using? I've heard some of the compositing stuff can be pretty picky about using the correct value.

EDIT: This green will do:

How's that look? By the way, I can open the wings if you want.

Not bad. But maybe a bit lower, so we can nearly see the top of R-2's head, like this shot:

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2007-12-31 11:10pm

Ok, really poor (but fast) render quality, but how's this for an angle? The main problem here is that even though this is the best of the released x-wings, it looks like it has some pretty big accuracy issues. So even after cutting down that box behind the seat, I don't think it's possible to match that screen exactly. I think it's going to be a tradeoff, if you want the R2 really clear, I can't get much of the engines in view.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2601/xwing3lh1.png

This whole project really makes me wish some of those really amazing (and insanely accurate to the smallest details) x-wings had actually been released, but I guess I can understand the artists desire not to see their work abused by everyone with a pirated copy of 3dsmax.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-12-31 11:17pm

Great angle; that would be fine.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2008-01-02 02:49pm

Alright, done. I tried to clean up some rough edges left by adding the green background, so let me know if it's not compositing properly. I still have the original render which may work better (though with black lines around the window frames).

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2680 ... tmpxf2.png

I also have the front view you mentioned, that'll be rendering tonight.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2008-01-02 03:25pm

Hey, that looks great! Thanks!

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2008-01-02 06:20pm

By the way, something I forgot to mention: here's the credit policy for the x-wing model. I didn't bother putting them on un-published preview images, but for the final video you'll need this:

CREDIT

SCIFI 3D: We presume that artists want proper credit for all uses of their work. Therefore we have a set of reasonable guidelines for each type of use. In spite of the personal opinion of each artists it is presumed that every artist who participates in this site with materials agrees to this also. There are many reasons for this. First is to do the moral and ethical thing by giving credit and recognition to those who have graciously supplied us with wonderful materials. Second is to protect the rights of each artist by helping to keep others from claiming credit for their work. There is a problem with theft out there. Third is to provide potential employers with a means of contacting artists. Believe it or not people have found jobs through SCIFI 3D. So in keeping with these goals a set of guidelines have been established on how to give credit for each type of artwork. ONE of many arguements I hear is "Well, do I have to credit costumers, caterers, and everybody else now too?". That is between you and them. Second, those guys knowingly participated in your artwork. Our artists do not know you are using their materials. All we ask is that you credit us. AND most would like to know what you are doing for curiosity purposes. That's the reason we have them online fellas. WE want to see what you are doing with the models.

IMAGES: Somewhere on the image at minimum there must be note of the ARTIST and/or SCIFI 3D. You can do both or any other combination if liked. Anything extra beyond this is up to the each user. Some have taken to heart that this destroys the artwork. I do not agree and have found true artists to even turn this into a form of expression with fonts and colors for the text that complimented the image. Some have also used widescreen format and used the black areas to list credits. Also there is a possible issue with multiple credits just for one model from our site. Again....you can just mention the "original" artist and SCIFI 3D so people can visit us and find the total credit.

MOVING IMAGES, Animations, etc: At the end or beginning of the trailer, movie, animation, etc. credits should be included. Altho there is more of an opportunity here for credits with greater detail it is not necessary. One of the reasons for credit is to provide a means of contact to the artist. To acheive this and the other goals it is necessary to list the artists and/or SCIFI 3D in a LEGIBLE manner in spite of compression. There is also an issue of file size with long credits. To avoid this an artist should use a high quality image with credits listed. This can be one or more images of credits attached to the end of the movie. This in turn can be viewed by using the PAUSE button on the media player. Running 10 minutes of animated credits is not necessary nor logical. Also there is a possible issue with multiple credits just for one model from our site. Again....you can just mention the "original" artist and SCIFI 3D so people can visit us and find the total credit.