StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Nothing too impressive, just a few unfinished things I have floating around. I'll be updating them and adding more as I get more done.

So, for starters, the IM-6 combat rifle, a semi-automatic weapon manufactured by Miratia from the SDN World RPG.

It's a bullpup design, and chambered for a unique 8x55mm cartridge (pictures once I've made them.)

Are you going to texture it? The reason why i´m asking is that plenty of people model guns because it´s one of the easiest, yet fun things to do. But very few texture them. The texturing part is the harder part of guns and also the part which makes the model look cool. Untextured guns are a dime a dozen wheras textured gun can be really awesome.

I can try. I'm not sure how to go about it, though since I'm an utter amateur.

Also, I'm using Autodesk Inventor 2009, which doesn't seem to have that sort of capability. It's more focused on modelling.

Uh... not sure if Inventor can use textures or has the capabiltiy to generate decent uv-maps. Inventor is probably not the right choice for modelling shiny models of guns. Personally i´d go with Blender if you don´t want to spend big bucks or pirate software. If you do have the money go for one of Autodesks 3D packages (Softimage, Maya or 3ds Max).

salm wrote:Uh... not sure if Inventor can use textures or has the capabiltiy to generate decent uv-maps. Inventor is probably not the right choice for modelling shiny models of guns. Personally i´d go with Blender if you don´t want to spend big bucks or pirate software. If you do have the money go for one of Autodesks 3D packages (Softimage, Maya or 3ds Max).

Well, my (free) copy of Inventor expires in a few days unless I give Autodesk a hell of a lot more personal information than I'm willing to, so Blender is sounding like a good choice until I can save up the cloned soul cash to pay for a full copy.

In the meantime, I fucked up the barrel size, apparently, so that's been updated.



What's left: magazine, an 8x55mm Miratian cartridge, a carry-bar/ACOG combo, and a dot sight.

8*55mm is going to hell a hell of a kick, will more or less preclude automatic fire.

Can we see the gun in another point of view?

JointStrikeFighter wrote:8*55mm is going to hell a hell of a kick, will more or less preclude automatic fire.

There's an older version of the weapon that's closer to something like an FN FAL, though. There were like 2 people in the entire army that could actually control it, though, so they switched it over to this thing.

Unfortunately, my licence expired today and keygens are always loaded with viruses, so I'm starting from scratch with Blender.

A few technical notes (ignoring the fact that I don't care for bullpups):

1)I'd like to inquire the reason you're using such a less-than-ideal cartridge as 8x55mm for what appears to be a standard infantry rifle. There's a reason most real militaries stopped using cartridges that size except on MMGs and sniper rifles. 5.56 may be a little weak, but something in the neighborhood of 7x40-45mm would be ideal. Not only would that allow individual riflemen to carry more ammo, but a modern infantry rifle should ideally be capable of controllable burst fire.

2) You might want to rotate that flash suppressor about 45 degrees or so, since venting the flash straight into the line of the sights kinda defeats the whole purpose of having it, or better yet, replace it with a more modern "birdcage" type.

Ryan Thunder wrote:

JointStrikeFighter wrote:8*55mm is going to hell a hell of a kick, will more or less preclude automatic fire.

There's an older version of the weapon that's closer to something like an FN FAL, though. There were like 2 people in the entire army that could actually control it, though, so they switched it over to this thing.

Unfortunately, my licence expired today and keygens are always loaded with viruses, so I'm starting from scratch with Blender.

Instead of restarting from scratch export the mesh. Use the .fbx or .obj format and it should be fine.

Ma Deuce wrote:A few technical notes (ignoring the fact that I don't care for bullpups):

1)I'd like to inquire the reason you're using such a less-than-ideal cartridge as 8x55mm for what appears to be a standard infantry rifle. There's a reason most real militaries stopped using cartridges that size except on MMGs and sniper rifles. 5.56 may be a little weak, but something in the neighborhood of 7x40-45mm would be ideal. Not only would that allow individual riflemen to carry more ammo, but a modern infantry rifle should ideally be capable of controllable burst fire.

I was under the impression that larger rounds (to a point, I suppose) were good for shooting through cover and still killing things on the other side. Since a large part of Miratia is rather dense jungle it seemed prudent to use a high-calibre shell.

Also, the rest of the country is relatively open, flat grasslands, where long-ranged firepower would be helpful.

Am I completely wrong, or just mostly?

2) You might want to rotate that flash suppressor about 45 degrees or so, since venting the flash straight into the line of the sights kinda defeats the whole purpose of having it, or better yet, replace it with a more modern "birdcage" type.

Good point. What's so great about the birdcage-style?

Ryan Thunder wrote:I was under the impression that larger rounds (to a point, I suppose) were good for shooting through cover and still killing things on the other side. Since a large part of Miratia is rather dense jungle it seemed prudent to use a high-calibre shell.

Yes, to a point. A full-powered rifle cartridge is simply excessive for punching through foliage; a 6.5-7mm intermediate cartridge would be more than sufficient. For example, the AK's 7.62x39mm cartridge had no trouble penetrating the underbrush in the jungles of Vietnam, and the often close-quarters nature of jungle warfare will make burst capability that much more important (I also hope that thing has a bayonet lug ).

Full-powered infantry rifles only make sense anymore if you expect to be fighting in environments with exceptionally long sightlines, like bare mountain ranges or wide-open plains, and even then an intermediate cartridge should be sufficient for most grunts. When it's not, you can issue a more powerful designated marksman rifle to one member of each squad.

Good point. What's so great about the birdcage-style?

1) won't snag on stuff (especially important in jungles)
2) can accommodate more vents (usually 6-8) to more evenly distribute the flash pattern
3) more durable against impact damage

Well, I caved and registered the program.

[shameless plug]For anybody who's wondering, I'm using an absolutely free student license of Autodesk Inventor 2009. You can get one too, provided you have a legitimate school email address.[/shameless plug]

Ma Deuce wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:I was under the impression that larger rounds (to a point, I suppose) were good for shooting through cover and still killing things on the other side. Since a large part of Miratia is rather dense jungle it seemed prudent to use a high-calibre shell.

Yes, to a point. A full-powered rifle cartridge is simply excessive for punching through foliage; a 6.5-7mm intermediate cartridge would be more than sufficient. For example, the AK's 7.62x39mm cartridge had no trouble penetrating the underbrush in the jungles of Vietnam, and the often close-quarters nature of jungle warfare will make burst capability that much more important (I also hope that thing has a bayonet lug ).

Crud, I'd actually forgotten about bayonets altogether. Well, is it practical to mount something like that on the accessory rails or does it need something stronger?

When I said "cover" i meant "trees at least as thick around as your neck". But actually IIRC, the AK didn't have any trouble with that either. While it may be an admittedly silly way to do things, I like round numbers, so I'll phase into 7x45mm for grunts and keep the 8x55mm chambering of the gun as a DMR.

Full-powered infantry rifles only make sense anymore if you expect to be fighting in environments with exceptionally long sightlines, like bare mountain ranges or wide-open plains, and even then an intermediate cartridge should be sufficient for most grunts. When it's not, you can issue a more powerful designated marksman rifle to one member of each squad.

There's already a DM in each squad, as well as an anti-tank gunner. Is that excessive?

Good point. What's so great about the birdcage-style?

1) won't snag on stuff (especially important in jungles)
2) can accommodate more vents (usually 6-8) to more evenly distribute the flash pattern
3) more durable against impact damage

Interesting. I hadn't thought that it would snag on things often enough for it to be worth noting in the first place.

Crud, I'd actually forgotten about bayonets altogether. Well, is it practical to mount something like that on the accessory rails or does it need something stronger?

Yes, the rail certainly could be made sturdy enough to mount a bayonet, but then you wouldn't be able to mount an underbarrel grenade launcher at the same time. One solution would be either to lengthen the barrel a bit to make a conventional bayonet lug practical, or place the bayonet into the front of the foregrip below the barrel (you could either use a telescoping "stiletto", or you could add a slot into which you could "plug" a knife-type bayonet). Unless your rifle has some radical operating system which I'm unfamiliar with, or some type of integral electronics module is stored there then there should be enough empty space inside the foregrip to mount a bayonet in that fashion.

When I said "cover" i meant "trees at least as thick around as your neck". But actually IIRC, the AK didn't have any trouble with that either. While it may be an admittedly silly way to do things, I like round numbers, so I'll phase into 7x45mm for grunts and keep the 8x55mm chambering of the gun as a DMR.

I did have light/medium wooden cover when I said "foliage", and you are correct that the AK had no trouble punching through it. Even a modern M16A2 will do that, but then it has less than optimal stopping power: The early M16's were just the opposite; they fired a lighter bullet than the 'A2 that didn't spin as fast and thus "tumbled" on impact giving it great stopping power but little penetration. This is why intermediate cartridges in the 6.5-7mm range are considered so ideal for assault rifles; they have enough energy for both good penetration and stopping power, while still being controllable in automatic fire.

There's already a DM in each squad, as well as an anti-tank gunner. Is that excessive?

No, in fact that arrangement is not uncommon IRL at all.

Interesting. I hadn't thought that it would snag on things often enough for it to be worth noting in the first place.

It was a problem on the earliest M16s (you know, the ones that had a whole bunch of other more serious problems thanks to McNamara's costcutting), which is why every model from the A1 onward has used a birdcage. It shouldn't be as much of a problem on your rifle given the size of the foregrip and the short length of the exposed barrel, but it's still not impossible. You'll note that almost all Western assault rifles have adopted it, and in any case there really isn't any reason not to use one.

I´d refrain from worrying too much about technical accuracy. Most people don´t know anything about ammo size and stuff like that. I usually try to get a result which is believable to most people while still leaving enough leeway for artistic interpretation in order to make the object look cool even if this means sacrificing accuracy.

salm wrote:I´d refrain from worrying too much about technical accuracy. Most people don´t know anything about ammo size and stuff like that. I usually try to get a result which is believable to most people while still leaving enough leeway for artistic interpretation in order to make the object look cool even if this means sacrificing accuracy.

Getting something that looks good but is also effective for its intended purpose is something I get a kick out of.

So, yeah...

Now, I'm not going to go into ridiculous details like the firing mechanism (hell, I probably won't include a trigger, even.)

In a bout of insanity I changed the barrel threading to accommodate hexagonal rounds instead of using the conventional threading. I'll have a picture up of the result (sans the birdcage, since I'm still working on that) shortly.

Okay, I lied. It has the birdcage now.

Also, bear in mind that this one is still chambered for 8x55 mm. I'll chamber it for 7x45 mm later.