Popular and obscure artists

[Phantasee]

Redman is tooling around in obscurity, putting up mixtapes for free on Blogspot, and 50 Cent is halfway to being a billionaire.

What the fuck is wrong with the world?

[wolveraptor]

Redman is tooling around in obscurity, putting up mixtapes for free on Blogspot, and 50 Cent is halfway to being a billionaire.

What the fuck is wrong with the world?

With the way his whole page is set up, you can tell he's being brought kicking and screaming into the internet age. His entire online operation is so amateur. Meanwhile you have these Soulja Boy rappers having slick, well-designed webpages with forums and downloads and merchandise and whatnot.

I've said for a long time now that most of the 90s hardcore rappers need to forget album sales. They should put all their music up for free, and just use it as way to promote their concerts. Hell, if they set up some proper websites up, they could even get some ad-revenue system going. Right now you just see them desperately clinging to the old system, and you get sad shit like this:


Empty threats about leaving the game (you know damn well Ghostface can't stop rapping) aren't a good sign.

[Phantasee]

Last time I bought a CD, it was Rihanna ( ) and it was as a gift. Person receiving it didn't look to excited to get it.

It would help these guys a lot in terms of exposure if their music was available for free from them, because you get the music, and the context it was produced in, from the artist himself, vs someone throwing up a torrent on some random website where the only context is "thanks for the up man" and "this is the real shit man". That doesn't tell me shit about the music.

But then they'd have to analyze where all their fans are at, too. I think Ice Cube came to do a show a few years back here in Edmonton, and it was a joke (I'm not 100% clear on what happened, either he didn't show, or he cut it short). There have been a few other guys up here and their shows have been major let downs. I think Redman and maybe? Method Man have been up here before, but the show was cancelled last minute. I mean, yeah, maybe you didn't get good ticket sales, but show up, perform for your fans, and they'll spread the word about how fucking awesome it was and more people will go to the next one. Instead you have some animosity towards them from their own fans, what makes them think anyone else will be interested in going?

Could a mod boot this up to AMP please?

[Thanas]

^No. The quality is not high enough atm for me. More serious discussion and then I might consider it.

Unless one of the AMP mods override me, which of course is their privilege as it is their forum.

[[R_H]]

Redman is tooling around in obscurity, putting up mixtapes for free on Blogspot, and 50 Cent is halfway to being a billionaire.

What the fuck is wrong with the world?

50 Cent is a good business man? His last two mixtapes were for free too, even if they were better than BISD (IMO).

[Phantasee]

My point is more about their distribution. 50 Cent sneezes, and it's recorded, packaged, and distributed immediately. Redman doesn't even have a proper website, it's hosted on Blogspot FFS.

I don't know. Is it because there is a bigger market for crap than there is for actual sonic gold? The production of 50 Cent's albums is always top-notch, and I've enjoyed listening to his albums (haven't heard BISD yet), but lyrically there are so many guys that utterly demolish them, and they've been labouring in obscurity their whole careers. With good production they turn out amazing albums (arguably Common's last few have been way better thanks to Kanye West's hand in the production), but people still don't listen to them.

[[R_H]]

A bigger market for crap, yeah, that would be Cash Money, Soulja Boy and the rest of those chucklefucks. I think it comes down to marketing, 50 Cent has a huge marketing machine behind him (the movie, Get Rich or Die Tryin') and is the "gangsta" of gangsta rap (shot nine times). Lyrically, I think he's all over the place. I thought BISD was extremely weak (lyrically), to the point that I think that tracks Forever King and War Angel LP would have made a better album. He also had/has a powerful backer, Eminem, without him he probably wouldn't have been as successful.

[Phantasee]

This is true. Eminem is a quality rapper (assuming I completely purge Encore from my mind) and 50 Cent is an easy example since he's so big now, but you are correct in mentioning the real shit heads. Young Money is probably the worst group of artists I have ever heard. Drake's level has gone down noticeably since he signed his deal with them.

Soulja Boy wouldn't be anywhere if it wasn't for fucking Youtube video views. I guess there is a huge market for crap.

And aerius, STFU and GTFO. Nobody cares about your fucking vacuum tubes.

[Thanas]

Well, to be honest, the same thing applies to every kind of music. For example, everybody knows about bland popstar #15, but who here has heard of the quality pop music from small artists few people really know?

It is the same with classical music, of course there the masters obviously deserve their reputation.

[Thanas]

Topic split from testing.

[[R_H]]

Well, to be honest, the same thing applies to every kind of music. For example, everybody knows about bland popstar #15, but who here has heard of the quality pop music from small artists few people really know?

It is the same with classical music, of course there the masters obviously deserve their reputation.

Thanas, have you ever been misfortunate enough to hear music from Soulja Boy etc.? They're not just bland, they're the refuse of the hip-hop barrel.

[wolveraptor]

I mean, yeah, maybe you didn't get good ticket sales, but show up, perform for your fans, and they'll spread the word about how fucking awesome it was and more people will go to the next one. Instead you have some animosity towards them from their own fans, what makes them think anyone else will be interested in going?

I think the problem is that these once-huge stars now think they're entitled to something that was really only ever a privilege. That's why Ghost had the temerity to demand that Myspace friends spend their money on his CD. I remember hearing an interview from Method Man once in which he said something to the effect of, "you should be grateful if you manage to convince even 10 people to part with their hard-earned money to listen to noises you recorded".

Thanas, have you ever been misfortunate enough to hear music from Soulja Boy etc.? They're not just bland, they're the refuse of the hip-hop barrel.

God, what pisses me off the most is that he's managed to spawn a movement. Every idiot is now trying to make a dance to go with their song, even formerly respected NY heavyweights (I'm lookin at you Busta Rhymes, you motherfucker). Of course the whole thing has now taken it's own direction with a lot of other influences from people like T.I., but at it's root, you still have gangly teenagers making shitty dance music with purposefully ugly noises.

Even that wouldn't piss me off if these people weren't so damn rich for doing that bullshit. Case in point, Bangs is not annoying, but rather hilarious to me. I probably wouldn't feel the same way if he were a multimillionaire.

[Thanas]

Thanas, have you ever been misfortunate enough to hear music from Soulja Boy etc.? They're not just bland, they're the refuse of the hip-hop barrel.

I do not listen to hip hop. Period. I find it non-challenging and boring.

So no.

[The Vortex Empire]

As far as music in general goes, the most popular artists will usually be the ones who pump out the worst, least complex music. Average Joe doesn't want to have to think to process his music, so the simpler the better. Then the simpler artists get more wealthy, allowing them to advertise their music more, and so on.

I don't listen to any rap or hip-hop personally, but the above is true for all forms of music.

[wolveraptor]

As far as music in general goes, the most popular artists will usually be the ones who pump out the worst, least complex music. Average Joe doesn't want to have to think to process his music, so the simpler the better. Then the simpler artists get more wealthy, allowing them to advertise their music more, and so on.

I think too often we underestimate the tastes of the average person. How is it the Led Zeppelin, who made some of the best music in half a century, was also one of the biggest bands of the 70s, and still sets records today with their album sales? How is it that the Beatles retained a huge following even after they abandoned their easy cheesey 60s pop for more thoughtful, album-oriented music? Hell, to use a more current examples, how is it that Wu Tang Forever, an album with a 6 minute single with no hook and little radio play by a relatively underground group of artists, sold more than 600,000 units in their first week, and has more than gone platinum since then? Wu Tang still has a world-wide fanbase, in countries that don't even have English as their primary language.

I think the problem is that quality artists don't get backing from the music industry anymore because there's no guarantee that their fans won't simply pirate their albums instead of buying CDs. You now have to rely on radio play and ringtone downloads for profitability, and that inevitably encourages simpler songs. It's the result of people trying to cling to the sinking ship that is the old music industry.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I think the problem is that quality artists don't get backing from the music industry anymore because there's no guarantee that their fans won't simply pirate their albums instead of buying CDs. You now have to rely on radio play and ringtone downloads for profitability, and that inevitably encourages simpler songs. It's the result of people trying to cling to the sinking ship that is the old music industry.

Dumbing down music for radio play and the bizarre notion that this will somehow increase the artist's popularity is nothing new. Judas Priest tried it in the 80s with Turbo (along with some cheesy awesome TV ads) and it didn't work out too hot for them. Metallica did it too and look at the shitstorm that caused, although they've certainly become popular for it - Black Album tracks get play on the classic rock stations here ( ) alongside ZZTop and Pink Floyd.

[wolveraptor]

I do not listen to hip hop. Period. I find it non-challenging and boring.

So no.

I always recommend Illmatic to people who says this. Possibly the greatest hip hop album of all time. Of course, that's not gonna do anything for you if something about hip hop's basic aesthetic (chanted rhymes over sampled beats) offends you, but at the very least you won't be able to call it dull.

One thing about these types of records is that it almost necessitates following along with a copy of the lyrics. The combination of the slang, the speed of the delivery, and accent can make the lyrics indecipherable.

[Vastatosaurus Rex]

I do not listen to hip hop. Period. I find it non-challenging and boring.

I've enjoyed some hip-hop, but I am bothered by the (racist?) "ghetto" subject matter so widespread in it. Do we really need stereotypes of black men as oversexed criminals and black women as "bitches" and "hoes" in our music? Surely hip-hop artists can find a subject other than gangsterism or inner-city misery to sing about.

[Thanas]

I do not listen to hip hop. Period. I find it non-challenging and boring.

So no.

I always recommend Illmatic to people who says this. Possibly the greatest hip hop album of all time. Of course, that's not gonna do anything for you if something about hip hop's basic aesthetic (chanted rhymes over sampled beats) offends you, but at the very least you won't be able to call it dull.

One thing about these types of records is that it almost necessitates following along with a copy of the lyrics. The combination of the slang, the speed of the delivery, and accent can make the lyrics indecipherable.

See, this kind of music is completely dull and unsatisfying to me. It is a basic sampled beat. There is nothing challenging in it. One does not have to remember basic themes and recognize them changing over an hour later.

I like some hip hop music - and by like I mean "yeah, okay, nice rythm". Some stuff by eminen is quite nice. But I would never pay money for "serious" hip hop. The last album I bought that went somewhat in that direction is one by MIA, but that is hardly original hip hop.

It also does not help that I find nearly all the hip-hop voices unmusical and atonal. IMO a lot of those people would stand to gain a lot by getting singing lessons.

[aerius]

See, this kind of music is completely dull and unsatisfying to me. It is a basic sampled beat. There is nothing challenging in it. One does not have to remember basic themes and recognize them changing over an hour later.

You know, somehow I picture you sitting down with a bottle of wine and turning the lights down low while listening to Wagner. Who, by the way was so anal that he actually found a solution for the "soprano problem".

---

Getting back on topic, I can't say I have much interest in hip-hop, the only reason I listen to it is because it shows up in New World Disorder series of mountain bike videos. R.A. The Rugged Man did a pretty decent piece for NWD 8.

[Thanas]

See, this kind of music is completely dull and unsatisfying to me. It is a basic sampled beat. There is nothing challenging in it. One does not have to remember basic themes and recognize them changing over an hour later.

You know, somehow I picture you sitting down with a bottle of wine and turning the lights down low while listening to Wagner.

No, I can listen to classical music almost every time of the day. No wine and no dimming of the lights necessary.

It is however not the only form of music I enjoy.

[Havok]

Redman is tooling around in obscurity, putting up mixtapes for free on Blogspot, and 50 Cent is halfway to being a billionaire.

What the fuck is wrong with the world?

50 is a smart business man?
Seriously. It isn't that hard to figure out, nor is it some great tragedy. 50 Cent makes appealing music that crosses boundaries. Redman's music appeals to a very select group.
50 Cent took his 15 minutes and invested in shoes, video games, a clothing line and a goddamned beverage ("How many rappers you know got a beverage!") not to mention branching out into acting to diversify his own talent and not just settling on his rap.

Redman has done a stoner movie. And that's pretty much it.

[wolveraptor]

*snip*.

Does that really account for the current disparity? Even Redman has some pop appeal, his first 5 albums went either gold or platinum. He's done a shitload of features and has done TV shows, movies, and commercials. It's not like his subject matter is particularly arcane or serious, he mostly does clever punchlines about weed, women, and cars.

It might be just that the dude is old, hip hop is a really youth-oriented genre. The industry does not let rappers age gracefully, unlike rock.

[[R_H]]

I do not listen to hip hop. Period. I find it non-challenging and boring.

I've enjoyed some hip-hop, but I am bothered by the (racist?) "ghetto" subject matter so widespread in it. Do we really need stereotypes of black men as oversexed criminals and black women as "bitches" and "hoes" in our music? Surely hip-hop artists can find a subject other than gangsterism or inner-city misery to sing about.

Because it the audience expects it from them and it sells?

[Havok]

*snip*.

Does that really account for the current disparity? Even Redman has some pop appeal, his first 5 albums went either gold or platinum. He's done a shitload of features and has done TV shows, movies, and commercials. It's not like his subject matter is particularly arcane or serious, he mostly does clever punchlines about weed, women, and cars.

It counts because 50 has made a very concentrated and active effort to keep himself in the limelight.

It might be just that the dude is old, hip hop is a really youth-oriented genre.

This is certainly true, but not the only reason.

The industry does not let rappers age gracefully, unlike rock.

Did you really just say that?