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The Nimitz (I think) next to a British carrier:

LOL That does look rather cute!

It's really more of an "Aircraft Tug".

There's a picture for Operation Enduring Freedom somewhere with a bunch of carriers: 2 American CVNs, 1 French CVN, 1 UK CVL, 1 Italian CVL and maybe the Spanish CVL.

The American ships dwarf the other ones

Gah, what a beautiful, beautiful machine. THAT is how my tax dollars should be spent.

Shinova wrote:The Nimitz (I think) next to a British carrier:

Correction, Nimitz next to Helicopter cruiser with idea's above its station.

Here, for the first time, we see a Nimitz herding its calf out into the deeper waters, where with luck it will grow to become an adult Carrier.

One day son, when you grow up, all this will be yours.

IG-88E wrote:<snip>

Super-LOL!!


To Rob: The small one's not a carrier?

Shinova wrote:

IG-88E wrote:<snip>

Super-LOL!!


To Rob: The small one's not a carrier?

They got through the budget at the time of building by being classified as Helicopter Cruisers. The fact that the Government then had the balls to try and pass them off as Aircraft Carriers just staggers the mind. The USMC has Support craft that are bigger than these and carry more aircraft (and 1000+ Marines and their equipment). That piddling little thing is not a Carrier! It's an embarrassment.

Too funny!!

Rob Wilson wrote:

Shinova wrote:

IG-88E wrote:<snip>

Super-LOL!!


To Rob: The small one's not a carrier?

They got through the budget at the time of building by being classified as Helicopter Cruisers. The fact that the Government then had the balls to try and pass them off as Aircraft Carriers just staggers the mind. The USMC has Support craft that are bigger than these and carry more aircraft (and 1000+ Marines and their equipment). That piddling little thing is not a Carrier! It's an embarrassment.

Well the orginal design would have carried Exocets and Seawolf as well. Much more of a cruiser then the Sea Dart only that got fitted. Bad sign when your carrier needs an area defence missile system because its fighters cant do the job.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Rob Wilson wrote: Well the orginal design would have carried Exocets and Seawolf as well. Much more of a cruiser then the Sea Dart only that got fitted. Bad sign when your carrier needs an area defence missile system because its fighters cant do the job.

Thank god it's being replaced, though I'm hearing a lot of talk that even these new ones are gradually having their teeth drawn during the building as well.

Rob Wilson wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Rob Wilson wrote: Well the orginal design would have carried Exocets and Seawolf as well. Much more of a cruiser then the Sea Dart only that got fitted. Bad sign when your carrier needs an area defence missile system because its fighters cant do the job.

Thank god it's being replaced, though I'm hearing a lot of talk that even these new ones are gradually having their teeth drawn during the building as well.

Well all hope for a third one is dead, and the air groups may be shrinking. But overall they seem okay. While a contract has been awarded, I wouldn't be surprised if a future government canceled one of them as happened to the French navy.

Rob Wilson wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:Well the orginal design would have carried Exocets and Seawolf as well. Much more of a cruiser then the Sea Dart only that got fitted. Bad sign when your carrier needs an area defence missile system because its fighters cant do the job.

Thank god it's being replaced, though I'm hearing a lot of talk that even these new ones are gradually having their teeth drawn during the building as well.

Apparently they'll be initially fitted for STOVL operations and catapults installed later, turning it into a CTOL carrier.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Well the orginal design would have carried Exocets and Seawolf as well. Much more of a cruiser then the Sea Dart only that got fitted. Bad sign when your carrier needs an area defence missile system because its fighters cant do the job.

Didn't they rip out the Sea Dart launcher (since the later Sea Harriers could carry the AMRAAM...except the GR9 is now replacing the FRS2)

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Rob Wilson wrote:
Thank god it's being replaced, though I'm hearing a lot of talk that even these new ones are gradually having their teeth drawn during the building as well.

Well all hope for a third one is dead, and the air groups may be shrinking. But overall they seem okay. While a contract has been awarded, I wouldn't be surprised if a future government canceled one of them as happened to the French navy.

They are not only spliting the contracts between britih and foriegn builders, they have reduced the overall budget per ship. Plus only having two means longer endurance patrols per vessel, or times when there won't be a vessel at sea, add to that the reduced Airgroup per ship and Crew shrinkages as well and these things are looking ready to cause headaches rather than pride for the RN.

Rob Wilson wrote:They got through the budget at the time of building by being classified as Helicopter Cruisers. The fact that the Government then had the balls to try and pass them off as Aircraft Carriers just staggers the mind. The USMC has Support craft that are bigger than these and carry more aircraft (and 1000+ Marines and their equipment). That piddling little thing is not a Carrier! It's an embarrassment.

One proposal for the next LHD has it larger than even your newly-designed carriers

phongn wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:Well the orginal design would have carried Exocets and Seawolf as well. Much more of a cruiser then the Sea Dart only that got fitted. Bad sign when your carrier needs an area defence missile system because its fighters cant do the job.

Didn't they rip out the Sea Dart launcher (since the later Sea Harriers could carry the AMRAAM...except the GR9 is now replacing the FRS2)

yep on the Launchers, the Harriers are Gr7's with FA2's. (look at the bottom of the linked page)

phongn wrote:

Rob Wilson wrote:They got through the budget at the time of building by being classified as Helicopter Cruisers. The fact that the Government then had the balls to try and pass them off as Aircraft Carriers just staggers the mind. The USMC has Support craft that are bigger than these and carry more aircraft (and 1000+ Marines and their equipment). That piddling little thing is not a Carrier! It's an embarrassment.

One proposal for the next LHD has it larger than even your newly-designed carriers

That wouldn't surprise me in the least, successive governments have fucked over the RN for the last 50 years. Oh and the other services as well, but the RN needs to have big money commitments made or it pays the price for years and years.

It is classed as a carrier. It uses a contavercial jump deck rather then the standerd catapult. It is only armed with Harrier jump jets. It was the British idea of maintain "carrier" presence without the price of a large aircraft carrier. It compaires to the Nimits the same way a JP(escort) carrier from WWII compaired with the Lexington or enterprise. It has enough planes to deal with anti-submarine work but if and enemy fleet attacks kiss your butt goodbye

Rob Wilson wrote:

phongn wrote:One proposal for the next LHD has it larger than even your newly-designed carriers

That wouldn't surprise me in the least, successive governments have fucked over the RN for the last 50 years. Oh and the other services as well, but the RN needs to have big money commitments made or it pays the price for years and years.

The USN seems to be turning the LHDs into CVEs lately (abliet very large ones).

Yeah, your military spending needs to be higher (a good thing US military spending is up - NORAD was scouring eBay for spare parts and considering moving to a transponder-only system ). Same with Canada's (teh Sea Kings really need to go)

Isolder74 wrote:It is classed as a carrier.

It's a de facto carrier. It's technically called a "through-deck cruiser" for funding purposes.

It uses a contavercial jump deck rather then the standerd catapult.

Ski-jump. With the aircraft carried on them there is no need for catapults. That, and it'd look suspicious if a cruiser suddenly sprouted cats.

It is only armed with Harrier jump jets.

It has some helicopters as well, some defensive CIWS installations and used to have the Sea Dart area-defense SAM.

It was the British idea of maintain "carrier" presence without the price of a large aircraft carrier. It compaires to the Nimits the same way a JP(escort) carrier from WWII compaired with the Lexington or enterprise.

There is no such thing as a JP carrier. "Jeep carriers" was just slang for the CVEs.

It has enough planes to deal with anti-submarine work but if and enemy fleet attacks kiss your butt goodbye

It was never intended to be a big, bad strike platform (neither was the similar US Sea Control Ship that was later adapted by the Spanish). The design did face off against the Argentines and nearly got into a carrier battle.

phongn wrote:

Rob Wilson wrote:

phongn wrote:One proposal for the next LHD has it larger than even your newly-designed carriers

That wouldn't surprise me in the least, successive governments have fucked over the RN for the last 50 years. Oh and the other services as well, but the RN needs to have big money commitments made or it pays the price for years and years.

The USN seems to be turning the LHDs into CVEs lately (abliet very large ones).

Yeah, your military spending needs to be higher (a good thing US military spending is up - NORAD was scouring eBay for spare parts and considering moving to a transponder-only system ). Same with Canada's (teh Sea Kings really need to go)

No, it was the FAA which operated many of the radars NORAD used that wanted transponders only. NORAD was fighting it but the perceived lack of a threat made there position poor to politicians. That changed quickly after 9/11

The Sea Kings will go, over the side most likely. One recently crashed on deck from total engine failure and I won't be surprised if we don't see more going down.