StarDestroyer.Net BBS

So I went with two friends to take a special tour of U-505 at the Museum of Science and Industry yesterday. We had a lot of a fun, especially since one hadn't been there in a very long time / at all, so virtually everything was new to him. We spent over four hours in and around U-505, a huge portion of it just talking to some of the US Navy submarine veterans who volunteer at the museum, and hearing about their experiences - to me, that was probably the best part of the experience.

Also I now know that my camera absolutely cannot be trusted (and in general is a total piece of shit - but really I knew that already).


At 8 AM, a hour and a half before the museum officially opens, nothing's fully lit up yet...




Lights came on pretty soon, and the Boot is revealed.




The bow, with a torpedo launching from one of the tubes. "Vor zwei, los!"





View of the conning tower, with flak (2x twin 20mm and 1x 37mm) and Harald Lange's emblem - a shell. Note the damage caused by TG 22.3's AA guns immediately firing on U-505 when she surfaced.





Another view of the conning tower from the aft - bit blurry but shows the AA armament a little better





Two propellers, two rudders, two torpedo tubes.




Closer view of the port propeller. Was told at this point that later-war U-boots had cheaper steel propellers, so one could be dated by them - though it wouldn't be often that you'd get the chance to inspect a U-boot's propellors.




Underneath the torpedo seen earlier.



The emblem gets its own spotlight.




We first got run through the ~15 min tour that is the usual business for U-505 visitors - it's very scripted and a bit rushed, not so much to my tastes, and with a lot of it talking about the events leading up to her capture by TG 22.3; before entering we were forbidden to take pictures or video, though this turned out to be just for the scripted tour itself. Afterwards we were allowed to roam her for the next 45 minutes; we weren't allowed in the torpedo rooms, or up in the conning tower, or up on the bridge or deck, though I wasn't particularly surprised. Here we spent some time talking with the Navy veterans, and eventually I got to taking pictures inside:


Rudder controls, in the Zentrale - unfortunately I didn't get any wide shots in there.





The compass, immediately above (I think)



Port engine telegraph. Not sure exactly what "Beide Maschinen 10 Weniger" means - "both machines 10 less", yes, but what that means I don't know. 10 what? RPMs?





Bow plane indicator.




Rudder indicator.




Navigator's table, port side. Showing the Azores, I think.




Immediately above that, the control for the sonar sounding device.





Controls for the dive planes. Note the seats most closely resemble bicycle seats. There was a interactive exhibit outside where two people could man a set of dive plane controls and control their simulated submarine - we laughed when we saw that the seats there were proper chairs, with emphatic warnings about how it moved and seat belts were required.




Depth gauges. Not sure if these were exactly like what U-505 had in 1944; they're almost certainly not original since the US Navy stripped out everything which wasn't nailed down and that which could be reasonably pried loose. Supposedly the museum was able to order replacements from the original manufacturers.




Many valves. Think this may have been in the forward starboard corner of the Zentrale.




Various pressure gauges, just forward of the port diesel.




Looking aft between the diesels.




Captain's quarters, immediately forward of the Zentrale. The height of decadent luxury. These bunks were apparently 5'8"; Harald Lange was apparently 6'2".



Radio compartment, immediately opposite the captain's bunk. The Enigmas have been removed, but the all-important gramophone remains.



Sonar compartment, with the hydrophone controls, next to the radio room.




A control panel in the sonar room - no idea what all that does.




Commissioned officer's bunks, the next bulkhead forward.




The galley crammed in between the commissioned officer's bunks aft and the petty officers forward. This picture cannot show just how truly cramped it is - I can't even stand up straight in front of the stove.




The forward torpedo room; the one of the two original bulkhead hatches left in U-505 here is closed off with a grate.




A panel of gauges in the E-Maschinenraum.




Control levers for the electric drive, I think.




More stuff in the E-Maschinenraum. Dunno what these do.




I wonder how that can of bread wound up in the bilges...




20mm FlAK displayed outside the Boot.




Ammunition for same, with a thumb for scale. Just the right thing to ruin someone's day.




Survival gear and some general clothing.






Life raft.




Next few are of a T V acoustic homing torpedo. U-505 apparently fired one at TG 22.3, but it missed - three were loaded aboard, and she was captured with two.




Nose of the torpedo, with some sort of grille presumably to allow sound in and keep water out.




The microphone head in the section behind the nose, with a dish to focus the sound




I think these bits read the sound and control the direction of the torpedo.



The T V's propeller.




UZO - the surface attack binoculars, a torpedo gyro, and stopwatch.




Cutaways of an exercise torpedo - note the air bottles to give the torpedo buoyancy at the end of its run, and the strobe light to aid recovery.




Kinda blurry shot of its batteries.




End of the torpedo with its electric motor.




I have absolutely no clue what this thing is. Signs didn't help much.




Forward dive planes, with the old hydrophone mounts painted over.




The later-model hydrophones were installed under the keel, where they wouldn't be disturbed by the motion of the dive planes.




We then left to go get lunch - at the most unassuming tiny little Chinese takeout place in the Loop; got lucky with parking (not too surprising since it was Saturday), though if I'd pushed my luck we'd have been able to park just in front. We headed back to the museum, this time entering in the traditional place - the Henry Crown Space Center. There's some cool stuff there that I didn't take pictures of - just by the doors there's a a bit about Mars rovers, and a long display along the waiting area for the Omnimax theater which was mostly about the Constellation program - we laughed a bit since it was clear it hadn't been updated in a few years. There's also an engineering/training mockup of a LM which I took a picture of (that turned out to be just perfect shit, as were all three of the pictures I got of Scott Carpenter's Aurora 7), an exhibit showing some of the interior of the ISS, a Shuttle cockpit mockup (which is closed up now, if it was ever open), and a timeline of the US space program with models of the rockets. A little Gemini docking simulator doesn't actually work right now, though I wanted to try it.

I must have seen it a million times before, but when I realized what this was I misted up a bit. I don't think it meant as much to my friends, but this was more meaningful to me than if they'd had even Apollo 11:





Frank Borman's spacesuit:





This was just too weird and funny to pass up, after our detour towards the Navy Wing - which for some reason is closed off now; just the hall of models is still there.





One of two surviving Stukas in the world is intent on attacking Chicago's rail infrastructure!




And this Spitfire is equally determined to stop him:




A Boeing mailplane.




And the last photo I took, a 2003 replica of the Wright Flyer, built and flown for the 100th anniversary of the Wrights' first flight:



So overall a good trip, though I'm disappointed that the coal mine is no longer a free attraction, nor is the outdoors parking free (the reason my family had traditionally parked by the Crown Center). I can understand why they might need to charge for those now, but I get the feeling those charges are never going to go away, just like the tolls we were told fifty years ago would go away when the construction costs of those highways were paid for... sigh. There were a few other things we saw - an exhibit about the Internet which seemed to date to about ten years ago - ie ancient history; then a gallery of old cars, including an American-made Rolls-Royce Phantom I, and a gallery of ship models - separate from the Navy stuff on the far side of the museum; the stainless steel Pioneer Zephyr in the entrance hall, and an exhibit on future technology which had literally the greatest invention of all time: a car with solar panels on the roof that could run the A/C whilst parked. (Also experiments with 3D printers making food, but who the hell cares about replicators when you could have a car that is cool inside when you get in after leaving it parked for three hours in the sun in the middle of July? Greatest. Thing. Ever.)

So I'm looking forward to going back sometime, to see some of the stuff I missed this time, particularly if something really cool comes to the Omnimax again, and just to wander around the place since it sometimes drives me nuts with how cool it is.

When I was there the U-505 was outside. It looks a whole lot better where it is now. I wonder did they still have the Enigma machines and the code books on display? They had a model of the capture there too. That was the coolest part of the MSI.

Is that Apollo 8 still? I can't quite make out the text.

They have one of the Enigmas IIRC, though I didn't specifically look for it; the Navy has the other, likewise with the original periscopes - they have the navigation scope but the attack periscope never turned up. I don't remember that model but they might still have it.

That is Apollo 8, yes. I was particularly emotionally struck by the episode of From the Earth to the Moon about it; that's why I feel a bit more strongly about it than other Apollo missions.

That's because that episode was awesome.

Man, I had no idea U-Boots had such horrible seating arrangements in addition to horrible...everything else remotely related to ergonomics or crew comfort

Yes, well, it was an undersea weapon, the crew were just necessary cogs in the machine. I'm on the short side myself and found it incredibly cramped. Last time I was there the U-505 was still outside. I sort of miss driving by on Lakeshore Drive and seeing a submarine just sitting there out on the lawn but the Chicago weather wasn't doing the sub any good over the long run.

Broomstick wrote:Yes, well, it was an undersea weapon, the crew were just necessary cogs in the machine. I'm on the short side myself and found it incredibly cramped. Last time I was there the U-505 was still outside. I sort of miss driving by on Lakeshore Drive and seeing a submarine just sitting there out on the lawn but the Chicago weather wasn't doing the sub any good over the long run.

Well, US subs were also undersea weapons but were generally vastly more comfortable. Although the seating is pretty minor compared to everything else, like diesel-tasting food, no showers, one toilet etc

I've been reading about British subs recently. Apparently the only toilet on the S and P classes was between the diesels, which stuns me, leading to many stokers banning other crewmen from their mess during meals, as they didn't want to see a sailor grunting away...
Because of these arrangements, many British sailors would try to do their patrols without going to the toilet, something the rest of the crew would bet on...

Always remind yourself that this is the kind of boat we Germans considered longrange, as in "travel to Japan please". The vast majority of subs was much smaller. Think about half to 1/3 of that.

Type IX Uboats actually had about 50% more displacement than Type VIIs, though of course the relationship between displacement and crew spaces wasn't linear.

Thanas wrote:Always remind yourself that this is the kind of boat we Germans considered longrange, as in "travel to Japan please". The vast majority of subs was much smaller. Think about half to 1/3 of that.

IIRC it was originally designed only to prowl the North Atlantic too, so it wasn't equipped with too much comfort for longer voyages or different climates.

PeZook wrote:Well, US subs were also undersea weapons but were generally vastly more comfortable. Although the seating is pretty minor compared to everything else, like diesel-tasting food, no showers, one toilet etc

PeZook wrote:Type IX Uboats actually had about 50% more displacement than Type VIIs, though of course the relationship between displacement and crew spaces wasn't linear.

Well, the Germans had to take ~15 year long forced vacation from designing and operating submarines and had to start again from what experience they remembered from WWI in the mid 1930s. Meanwhile the US Navy were free play with both their fleet of late WWI subs and trying out new tricks with experimental subs. So by the mid-to-late 30s they had a better idea about what they want to do with an ocean going sub and how to equip them. Having more resources helped too.

Iirc, we continued designing U-boats in secret via a dutch firm.

Thanas wrote:Iirc, we continued designing U-boats in secret via a dutch firm.

Yes, but it means you couldn't run the sort of development program that comes with actually being able to operate large numbers of experimental subs to see what works and what doesn't, while the US was free to do so.

Although to be perfectly honest,there was also the question of VERY different operational environments between the two navies. American subs not only had to go on much longer patrols (an average of 60 days, which for a Type VII U-Boat was all but unattainable. Type IXs did 60 day and longer patrols, but it was always a gruelling, extraordinary task).

So for American subs, which also operated in the Pacific, air conditioning and crew facilities were a must. BUT, they also had the luxury of an environment not nearly as saturated with ASW - while U-Boats were hardly designed with late-war ASW developments in mind, their short diving times turned out to be important for survivability against airplanes and escorts. The Japanese sucked ass as far as ASW went, so the large American subs had a way more comfortable war.

Still, U-Boat crew arrangements could've still been improved without actually compromising any of the above

Thanas wrote:Iirc, we continued designing U-boats in secret via a dutch firm.

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Problem is that they only designed small coastal and some medium seagoing subs for countries who never wanted more. So they didn't gathered too much experience with larger ones. Also most of the designs were built in very low numbers.

PeZook wrote:Still, U-Boat crew arrangements could've still been improved without actually compromising any of the above

Depends how much shit the designers and the higher ups gave about things like ergonomics and crew comfort other then giving the "Shut up and soldier!" order to any complainers.