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<snorts> Not exactly a flattering look at Georgi boy, but ohhhhh so funny.
Hee Hee Hee

Quite frankly, that was a tremendous waste of time. There are some elements of Lucas critism that are completely valid, but very little in that piece was based on anything at all. Aside from the overplayed anti-bluescreen bit, the only coherent satire was the parodying of the OT DVD commentary track and its Lucas love.

More than that, though, it simply wasn't funny.

When I saw the banana slaping itself on the head I was rolling on the floor laughing. I mean I liked the SW films (obviously) but the overuse of silly CGI characters was really annoying. Sure you must have CGI for Coruscant and space battles and shit but really do you fucking need an annoying CGI character in every fucking frame?

George Lucas doesn't location shoot? Excuse me?

Darth Fanboy wrote:George Lucas doesn't location shoot? Excuse me?

They're probably talking about the fact that there was none in Episode III. Of course, there was plenty in the other five eps.

Using LOTR as a counterpoint against the overuse of CGI by George Lucas is perhaps the most idiotic thing I've ever heard of. Most of those movies are CGI too, with plenty of the trademark unrealistic movement and anti-physics inertial-damper kinematics, but it's medieval fiction instead of science fiction so I guess nobody notices. Do people really think that they just rolled cameras on the actors walking around? The actor who plays Gimli is something like six feet tall, for fuck's sake.

Darth Wong wrote:Using LOTR as a counterpoint against the overuse of CGI by George Lucas is perhaps the most idiotic thing I've ever heard of. Most of those movies are CGI too, with plenty of the trademark unrealistic movement and anti-physics inertial-damper kinematics, but it's medieval fiction instead of science fiction so I guess nobody notices. Do people really think that they just rolled cameras on the actors walking around? The actor who plays Gimli is something like six feet tall, for fuck's sake.

The vast majority of that was forced perspective work and body doubles rather than CGI to "shrink" them.

weemadando wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Using LOTR as a counterpoint against the overuse of CGI by George Lucas is perhaps the most idiotic thing I've ever heard of. Most of those movies are CGI too, with plenty of the trademark unrealistic movement and anti-physics inertial-damper kinematics, but it's medieval fiction instead of science fiction so I guess nobody notices. Do people really think that they just rolled cameras on the actors walking around? The actor who plays Gimli is something like six feet tall, for fuck's sake.

The vast majority of that was forced perspective work and body doubles rather than CGI to "shrink" them.

Camera tricks are still special effects, and LOTR was most assuredly awash in effects of every kind. People who wax nostalgic about "real" filmmaking would be well-advised to hitch their wagon to another horse if they want to attack Lucas for overuse of CGI.

Not to mention simple framing and blocking methods.

Darth Wong wrote:

weemadando wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Using LOTR as a counterpoint against the overuse of CGI by George Lucas is perhaps the most idiotic thing I've ever heard of. Most of those movies are CGI too, with plenty of the trademark unrealistic movement and anti-physics inertial-damper kinematics, but it's medieval fiction instead of science fiction so I guess nobody notices. Do people really think that they just rolled cameras on the actors walking around? The actor who plays Gimli is something like six feet tall, for fuck's sake.

The vast majority of that was forced perspective work and body doubles rather than CGI to "shrink" them.

Camera tricks are still special effects, and LOTR was most assuredly awash in effects of every kind. People who wax nostalgic about "real" filmmaking would be well-advised to hitch their wagon to another horse if they want to attack Lucas for overuse of CGI.

Yes, but your rant was directed at CGI. I was just pointing out that CGI was not a major component of the "shrinking" of actors in LotR.

weemadando wrote:Yes, but your rant was directed at CGI. I was just pointing out that CGI was not a major component of the "shrinking" of actors in LotR.

No, but I rather suspect that the wargs and oliphaunts were not real animals filmed on location, that those weren't real arrows flying around the actors' heads, and let's face it, the vast seas of faceless CGI soldiers were just that: huge quantities of CGI. The bit about Gimli was directed at the silly notion that they actually just went to a field in New Zealand and shot the actors straight-up.

Darth Wong wrote:

weemadando wrote:Yes, but your rant was directed at CGI. I was just pointing out that CGI was not a major component of the "shrinking" of actors in LotR.

No, but I rather suspect that the wargs and oliphaunts were not real animals filmed on location, that those weren't real arrows flying around the actors' heads, and let's face it, the vast seas of faceless CGI soldiers were just that: huge quantities of CGI. The bit about Gimli was directed at the silly notion that they actually just went to a field in New Zealand and shot the actors straight-up.

Yes Wong. We know that the wargs and oliphaunts weren't real and that they didn't have 40,000 extras in Uruk-Hai makeup.

But you specifically mentioned Johnathon Rhys-Davies/Gimli. I specifically addressed the "not CG to shrink actors" thing.

weemadando wrote:Yes Wong. We know that the wargs and oliphaunts weren't real and that they didn't have 40,000 extras in Uruk-Hai makeup.

But you specifically mentioned Johnathon Rhys-Davies/Gimli. I specifically addressed the "not CG to shrink actors" thing.

I specifically mentioned Gimli in relation to the "they didn't just go to a field and shoot the actors walking around" thing. You know, the words immediately preceding the Gimli comment. Try reading my post, genius.

I did read your post. I read it as referring to CGI specifically. Seeing as that was what you mentioned SPECIFICALLY in your post. And that that was what the thread is about.

Also - Yes. They did film actors walking around infront of the camera. Actors walking around at different distances or entirely different actors in the smaller versions of the same costume to achieve the desired effect.

Yes. There was a lot of VISUAL TRICKERY involved and yes, there was a lot of CGI to achieve certain effects. But my fucking point related specifically to non-CGI effects used to achieve the shrinking effects.

weemadando wrote:I did read your post. I read it as referring to CGI specifically. Seeing as that was what you mentioned SPECIFICALLY in your post. And that that was what the thread is about.

Also - Yes. They did film actors walking around infront of the camera. Actors walking around at different distances or entirely different actors in the smaller versions of the same costume to achieve the desired effect.

Yes. There was a lot of VISUAL TRICKERY involved and yes, there was a lot of CGI to achieve certain effects. But my fucking point related specifically to non-CGI effects used to achieve the shrinking effects.

And my fucking point was that LOTR is the last film in the world you should be holding up as a model if you have a gripe with CGI. The fact that you assumed I was talking about Gimli as a reference to CGI rather than a reference to "not simply shooting them walking around" is not important.

Yes. Because this:

The vast majority of that was forced perspective work and body doubles rather than CGI to "shrink" them.

Is obviously me saying that there was no CGI or any problems with the level of CGI used.

I simply made the point that Jackson chose not to rely on CGI to do this kind of work. You're the one who seems to have taken it like a thrown gauntlet.

weemadando wrote:Yes. Because this:

The vast majority of that was forced perspective work and body doubles rather than CGI to "shrink" them.

Is obviously me saying that there was no CGI or any problems with the level of CGI used.

I simply made the point that Jackson chose not to rely on CGI to do this kind of work. You're the one who seems to have taken it like a thrown gauntlet.

What about the Ghost army? What about Massive the CGI program 95% of all the battles were filmed. What about the digital face overs of the actors faces that make the scale doubles even more convincing? What about the fact the assembling of the fellowship scene was done entirely in blue screen. The Coronation was almost entirely CGI as was almost all of the long shots of the models having added CGI elements. There was tons of location shoots in Episode 3, its just simply the fact that a Green Screen set costs way less then a Full set. Can you imagine the headaches of making the mustifar scene as a normal set where all those things would have to break apart and move on command. They might never have finished that set.

The Lord of the Rings movies DIE without the CGI Fell beasts, and Trolls, ect ect ect. It dies without the face that almost the entire battle with the Cave Troll is CGI. The Only part of the stairs scene that is not CGI is the actors moving on a Blue Screen platform,

Shall I go on?

CGI is not some evil beast needing to be slain. It is a tool. Nothing more. THE old rubber creatures are no less 'real' than the CGI ones. You do know the Nemoidians were CGI enhanced mask don't you?

Isolder74 wrote:

weemadando wrote:Yes. Because this:

The vast majority of that was forced perspective work and body doubles rather than CGI to "shrink" them.

Is obviously me saying that there was no CGI or any problems with the level of CGI used. :roll:

I simply made the point that Jackson chose not to rely on CGI to do this kind of work. You're the one who seems to have taken it like a thrown gauntlet.

What about the Ghost army? What about Massive the CGI program 95% of all the battles were filmed. What about the digital face overs of the actors faces that make the scale doubles even more convincing? What about the fact the assembling of the fellowship scene was done entirely in blue screen. The Coronation was almost entirely CGI as was almost all of the long shots of the models having added CGI elements. There was tons of location shoots in Episode 3, its just simply the fact that a Green Screen set costs way less then a Full set. Can you imagine the headaches of making the mustifar scene as a normal set where all those things would have to break apart and move on command. They might never have finished that set.

The Lord of the Rings movies DIE without the CGI Fell beasts, and Trolls, ect ect ect. It dies without the face that almost the entire battle with the Cave Troll is CGI. The Only part of the stairs scene that is not CGI is the actors moving on a Blue Screen platform,

Shall I go on?

CGI is not some evil beast needing to be slain. It is a tool. Nothing more. THE old rubber creatures are no less 'real' than the CGI ones. You do know the Nemoidians were CGI enhanced mask don't you?

Oh for FUCKS SAKE. READ MY FUCKING POSTS!

I've been saying that the basic "shrinking" of actors was FOR THE MOST PART done using physical effects rather than CGI. Yes, there was fucking CGI for tidying and some compositing, but it wasn't like the actors spent the vast majority of their time acting out their scenes seperately on greenscreens so they could then be put together.

So you ignore the rest of my post because I make a reference to the size doubles in one sentence?

What about the rest of the CGI in The Lord Of the Rings Movies? Which i mentioned and only scratching the surface?

Isolder74 wrote:So you ignore the rest of my post because I make a reference to the size doubles in one sentence?

What about the rest of the CGI in The Lord Of the Rings Movies? Which i mentioned and only scratching the surface?

GOD FUCKING DAMNIT YOU STUPID FUCKER!

Look at the fucking history of what I've been saying.

I've NEVER tried to make a point either for or against the use of CGI in the rest of the movie. I was simply MAKING A ONE LINE FUCKING STATEMENT ABOUT HOW CERTAIN ASPECTS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN PURE CG - WERE NOT! Namely, the use (or relative lack thereof) of CGI for "shrinking" actors.

Fucking hell. Why the fuck is it that people can't fucking just take my fucking point and understand it? It wasn't fucking confrontational, or anything like that. I was just making a fucking point and suddenly it turns into a fucking dog-pile.

FUCK.

What a tremendously boring youtube stream. It doesn't actually show any take on George Lucas's rendition, which would have been hilarious, but actual work on the part of the creators.
Seriously. I was hoping for some redeeming Stormtroopers marching on helm's deep or Banthaphonts. Something. But it was just a load of passive aggressive tripe from some whiny ass fanboy.

SyntaxVorlon wrote:What a tremendously boring youtube stream. It doesn't actually show any take on George Lucas's rendition, which would have been hilarious, but actual work on the part of the creators.
Seriously. I was hoping for some redeeming Stormtroopers marching on helm's deep or Banthaphonts. Something. But it was just a load of passive aggressive tripe from some whiny ass fanboy.

Agreed. That was a retarded watch. It was just a bunch of fanboys going "lolz, if lucas had directed lotr there would have been a bananaslap because lucas and cgi is teh suxorz1" It was purely a rant about how Star Wars relied too much on CGI (a stupid point, given that Special Effects, including CGI, was one of the greatest assets of the movies,) and LOTR was better because it didn't (an equally stupid claim, given the ammount of CGI used in that movie. And what the fuck was that bash on Lucas about changing the LOTR script? That was just plain idiotic.

I am all for CGI where it's appropriate, and it has gotten to the point where it can be used very liberally. To me, it's just another way of making a film, and I have no problem with it.

It is this close to being a very clever joke that could have made fun of both LotR, Star Wars, Jackson and Lucas, but now it's just a bunch of fanboys bashing Lucas using an incredibly retarded example. I mean, all of that stuff they talk about are things that Peter Jackson did too. He did change the script a lot, he did use a lot of bluescreen and CGI (even several completely CG characters, and several completely greenscreen sets), and he did even annoy Christopher Lee, by cutting Saruman from RotK (Lee, however, never expressed any complaints about Lucas. Of course, I understand he is quite the gentleman, so he wouldn't do that). They could have done it just a little bit differently and the irony would have been absolutely delicious. Now it's just stupid. The only thing one can laugh now at is their sheer ignorance, and the fact that they used only the one documentary from the AotC DVD as their source of "mockery" (which adds to the laughability of their stupidity, not the funniness of the clip)...