United Federation of Planets vs the Klingon Star Empire

[Praxis]

In DS9, Way of the Warrior, Klingons transported on one open area of Ops. They fired ONE shot, then dropped all their weapons (no one was NEAR them) and grabbed Bat'leths and jumped over the guardrails and attacked, being shot the whole time. The result? About 30 dead Klingons, 3 dead feddies.

[Lord MJ]

That was still pretty close quarters, and you notice that by the end of the fight everyone in ops was fighting hand to hand.

And you notice that in other parts of the battle the Klingons were using Disruptors against targets a considerable distance away.

And that still doesn't demonstrate that a klingon army is going to Batleth Charge an enemy Army. They aren't that dumb.

[Stark]

Oooer; my first post was meant to say 'ships generally inferior, with the exception of Negh'var', but there's so much evidence here I guess Negh'var sucks too. I was just going on age and size (Vor'cha is old, everything else is small, etc).

As an aside, who says you can judge Intrepid firepower by counting phaser strips? Apart from TM rubbish, is there any established link between strip length and power? They can't fire multiple phasers on full power (often) anyway, so extra phasers just add to the arcs, surely?

[Lord MJ]

We don't know how old the Vorcha is. It could have been released just before TNG, or it could be from as early as the early 24th century.

We have no way of knowing.

[Stark]

We don't know how old the Vorcha is. It could have been released just before TNG, or it could be from as early as the early 24th century.

We have no way of knowing.

Chief, it was around at the start of TNG, and all the decent SF classes are much newer than that. I'll take a leaf from Alyeska's book and point out that Vorcha is supposed to be approximately as old as Ambassador.

[Master of Ossus]

That was still pretty close quarters, and you notice that by the end of the fight everyone in ops was fighting hand to hand.

Yeah, because the Klingons sacrificed themselves in order to close the distance with the UFP/allied crewmen. You'll forgive me if I'm not too impressed, especially since they dropped their disruptors and made a conscious decision to close to hand-to-hand combat in order to fight like that. Plus, there was the whole thing with Garak calmly wasting Klingons while they closed to fight Gul Dukat hand-to-hand, even though the two were standing in places that gave them virtually no cover.

And you notice that in other parts of the battle the Klingons were using Disruptors against targets a considerable distance away.

I also noticed that Bashir specifically told his staff to expect lacerations, since Klingon tactics apparently relied heavily on bladed weapons.

And that still doesn't demonstrate that a klingon army is going to Batleth Charge an enemy Army. They aren't that dumb.

What makes you think they're smarter than Dominion forces, which charged the UFP outpost in "The Siege of AR-558?" Also, in "Nor the Battle to the Strong," the Klingon ground weapons were so pitiful it ALMOST explained why Klingon troops so often used bladed weapons in combat.

While the Klingons may not re-enact Pickett's Charge against dug-in enemy positions, they also hardly demonstrate the sort of competence one would expect from an army trained almost from birth to fight.

[Dark Primus]

Oooer; my first post was meant to say 'ships generally inferior, with the exception of Negh'var', but there's so much evidence here I guess Negh'var sucks too. I was just going on age and size (Vor'cha is old, everything else is small, etc).

The Negh'var do carry the firepower, and probably strong shielding, but it seemed to lack speed and manuverbility, A fast and manuverble Nebula maybe could beat it, if it used impulse on maximum, and dished out phasers and photons constantly.

[Uraniun235]

Err, when have we seen a Nebula flying "fast and manueverable"?

[Sarevok]

Oooer; my first post was meant to say 'ships generally inferior, with the exception of Negh'var', but there's so much evidence here I guess Negh'var sucks too. I was just going on age and size (Vor'cha is old, everything else is small, etc).

The Negh'var do carry the firepower, and probably strong shielding, but it seemed to lack speed and manuverbility, A fast and manuverble Nebula maybe could beat it, if it used impulse on maximum, and dished out phasers and photons constantly.

The Nebula is not agile enough to dodge the Neghvar's disruptors and photon torpedoes. And it lacks the shielding or firepower to go up against a battleship like the Neghvar.

[Sarevok]

Oooer; my first post was meant to say 'ships generally inferior, with the exception of Negh'var', but there's so much evidence here I guess Negh'var sucks too. I was just going on age and size (Vor'cha is old, everything else is small, etc).

The Negh'var do carry the firepower, and probably strong shielding, but it seemed to lack speed and manuverbility, A fast and manuverble Nebula maybe could beat it, if it used impulse on maximum, and dished out phasers and photons constantly.

The Nebula is not agile enough to dodge the Neghvar's disruptors and photon torpedoes. And it lacks the shielding or firepower to go up against a battleship like the Neghvar.

[Allbran_Sustain]

Just out of curiosity, what is the population of the UFP and the Klingon Empire? Do the Klings have enough warriors to fight the Feds with batleths for an entire war? or will they need to use those guns they carry?

If thats their mentality, then why don't they power down their ships disruptors and use some sort of giant ship killing batleth to destroy Fed ships with?

[Uraniun235]

Just about all of the non-canon materials I've ever seen depict the Klingon Empire as being somewhat smaller than the Federation in terms of territory and economy. Their population could also be smaller.

While the Federation may have a size advantage, the Klingons are quite willing to gear their economy almost totally to war, something the Federation is loath to do. If the Klingons got their shit together and decided to stage a sneak attack against an unsuspecting Federation, it's possible they could get into the heart of the Federation, deal an utterly crippling blow, and wear Starfleet down to the point where the Klingons could negotiate for a very favorable truce.

However, this ignores the fact that while some in the Empire see the Federation as decadent and weak, a lot of Klingons hate the Romulans, and for the Klingons to pull anything off against the Federation would mean leaving themselves wide open to a Romulan attack... and with both the Klingons and the Federation decimated after a short and brutal war, the Romulans could very well secure a position of dominance for themselves.

[Dark Primus]

Err, when have we seen a Nebula flying "fast and manueverable"?

Fast in DS9 Emissary but not very maneuverable, but in First Contact one Nebula seemed to be doing maneuvers instead of speed. A Galaxy or a Sovereign might be a better option I would guess.