A question about Tasha Yar's homeplanet

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-02-08 02:01pm

The TNG episode where Tasha Yar’s sister came onboard the E-D, did Picard say something about her home planet broke away from the Federation due to internal conflicts?

johnmarkley · Post by **johnmarkley** » 2003-02-08 02:29pm

Yes, the planetary government collapsed and the planet fell under the control of marauding gangs. I'm not sure if the planet fell into chaos before or after leaving the Federation, though.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-02-08 03:32pm

There is nothing indicating the colony was ever a member of the Federation, its referred to as an Earth Colony.

We have this

Captain's log, supplemental. We
are in orbit above Turkana Four,
an Earth colony that severed
relations with the Federation
nearly fifteen years ago.

Now what relations means is unclear (trade relations, diplomatic relations, protectorate status or full on member).

I would think if it was a member he wouldn't have said "relations" but said it had seceded from the Federation, that however isn't exactly a cast iron argument and is open to interpretation.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-02-08 03:50pm

TheDarkling wrote:There is nothing indicating the colony was ever a member of the Federation, its referred to as an Earth Colony.

We have this

Captain's log, supplemental. We
are in orbit above Turkana Four,
an Earth colony that severed
relations with the Federation
nearly fifteen years ago.

Now what relations means is unclear (trade relations, diplomatic relations, protectorate status or full on member).

I would think if it was a member he wouldn't have said "relations" but said it had seceded from the Federation, that however isn't exactly a cast iron argument and is open to interpretation.

'Earth colony' Well it was inhabited by humans only wasn't?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-08 04:34pm

It was inhabited by humans. A lot of Trekkies have massive problems accepting that it was part of the UFP because of its obvious internal problems, but there's not a lot in the show to indicate that it was a UFP colony, as opposed to an Earth one.

The only thing that indicates it as a Federation colony is the non-canon Encyclopedia.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2003-02-08 08:58pm

Just because its an Earth colony doesn't neccessarily mean its part of the Federation, it could have been independant, Earth might be a member of the Federation but that doesn't mean that all humans everywhere are members of the Federation.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-08 10:04pm

What I don't get is why didn't the Feddies send in some sort of PK force to stabilize the colony?

Oh and nice avatar, SCVN, that's Apothis, right?

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-02-09 12:56am

Aya wrote:What I don't get is why didn't the Feddies send in some sort of PK force to stabilize the colony?

Lack of backbone would be my guess for not sending in a PK force.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-09 03:31am

paladin wrote:
Aya wrote:What I don't get is why didn't the Feddies send in some sort of PK force to stabilize the colony?
Lack of backbone would be my guess for not sending in a PK force.

Yeah, I forgot to take into account the Feddies lack of testicle fortitude.

See, this is where the Empire and the Feddies take different paths, because the Empire would've sent in some class of SD (or more, depending on the planet) under the pretense of using a peacekeeping force to stabilize the planets chaotic state in the name of the populace's safety, while they would really just be adding another planet to their galactic hat.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2003-02-09 03:02pm

If its an independant world then the Prime Directive applies, the Federation can't interfere unless help is requested.

Oh and thanks Aya, it is Apophis.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-09 06:42pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:If its an independant world then the Prime Directive applies, the Federation can't interfere unless help is requested.

Oh and thanks Aya, it is Apophis.

Man, this is why the Prime Directive should either be abolished or changed so that the Feddies could take out rebellous colonies. And yes, I would consider any colony attempting or succeeding in breaking away as an act of rebellion and thus, deserves to have several Tricolbalt shoved up it's colonial ass.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-09 09:06pm

Man, this is why the Prime Directive should either be abolished or changed so that the Feddies could take out rebellous colonies.

So, when the South seceded from the United States, they would have deserved a thorough nuclear bombardment (had we had the tech to do so)?

Besides...
1) Earth colony does not necessarily mean Federation member or property. It could have been colonized before the Federation was founded and it may have chosen not to join the UFP. In that event, they are a soveriegn power, and likely falls under the UFP mentality of "don't get involved".

2) UFP attempts to remedy the situation or provide non-military aid may have been rejected by the majority of people on Turkana 4.

3) The UFP does not see enough value in Turkana 4 to warrant sacrificing lives in order to bring an end to the fighting there. From what I remember, the factions there were so bitterly opposed to each other that it would take more than a little effort to bring any lasting peace to the colony.

Probably the UFP is simply waiting for the people there to grow tired of fighting before they try to send anyone in... besides, there are supposedly specific conditions to be met before planets can join the UFP (among them some stuff about no civil wars in the past so many years, a unified planetary government, etc.) and I doubt Turkana 4 would qualify.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-09 09:14pm

I was joking about the whole tricobalt thing, lol.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-02-09 09:17pm

PICARD
Every member of the Federation has
entered as a unified world... and
that unity said something about
them... that they had resolved
certain social and political
problems at home and were ready to
join a larger community.

I think that says something about the Federations view on the matter (although judging by Attached world unity isn't required by any admitance procedure).

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-09 09:23pm

Aya wrote:I was joking about the whole tricobalt thing, lol.

Sorry. It's just that there are people that would have been serious about that. There's "Federation needs to grow some balls" people, and there's "Federation needs to be a tyrannical, bloodthirsty race" people, and the latter type really irritates me.

johnmarkley · Post by **johnmarkley** » 2003-02-10 12:58am

Was it explained how Yar came to join Starfleet?

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2003-02-10 01:39am

TheDarkling wrote:PICARD
Every member of the Federation has
entered as a unified world... and
that unity said something about
them... that they had resolved
certain social and political
problems at home and were ready to
join a larger community.

I think that says something about the Federations view on the matter (although judging by Attached world unity isn't required by any admitance procedure).

It does help though, the Federation was at least willing to consider one of the nations on Kess-Prytt's application but ended up turning it down when it came to light relations between the two were somewhat less than amicable. So at the very least you need world peace and no wars/cold wars going on.

The Prime Directive doesn't need to be scrapped, "except under extreme circumstances" added to it maybe. As for forcing a rebellious world to remain in the Federation, that's just not their style, damn them and their respect for free will.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-10 02:00am

johnmarkley wrote:Was it explained how Yar came to join Starfleet?

She simply got off world and managed to get into SF. A person doesn't really need to be part of a race that's in the Federation, take Worf for example, his race aren't feddie members, but he was accepted, same with Data.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-02-10 10:56am

SCVN 2812 wrote:If its an independant world then the Prime Directive applies, the Federation can't interfere unless help is requested.

Actually, they can interfere. Riker said quite clearly in "The Masterpiece Society" that Human populations are not covered by the Prime Directive, even if they have no relations with the Federation.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-02-10 11:11am

Ted C wrote:
SCVN 2812 wrote:If its an independant world then the Prime Directive applies, the Federation can't interfere unless help is requested.
Actually, they can interfere. Riker said quite clearly in "The Masterpiece Society" that Human populations are not covered by the Prime Directive, even if they have no relations with the Federation.

+ Admiral Dougherty said in 'Insurrection' that the Prime Directive applies only to people indeginous to the planet and used this to justify his treatment of the Baku. Since humans aren't indeginous to Turkana IV, the Prime Directive wouldn't apply to them.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-02-10 01:48pm

Can the citizens of the UFP (in this case earthlings), claim planets in the name of themselves rather than the UFP?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-10 11:03pm

Ted C wrote:
SCVN 2812 wrote:If its an independant world then the Prime Directive applies, the Federation can't interfere unless help is requested.
Actually, they can interfere. Riker said quite clearly in "The Masterpiece Society" that Human populations are not covered by the Prime Directive, even if they have no relations with the Federation.

Then it becomes a question of whether the Federation wants to intervene.