OTNGEG - Pen Pals

[Skylon]

Some of the TNG wackiness regarding the Prime Directive could be a brain bug from "Bread and Circuses", where the line "No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet. No references to space or the fact that there are other worlds or civilizations" was used.

I've heard the creation of the Prime Directive attributed to a few people including Gene L. Coon; does anyone know what Roddenberry's thoughts on the matter were?

One note I find interesting about the P.D. in that Memory Alpha article is that a Voyager episode states there are 47 "sub-orders" to the Prime Directive. That sounds horribly complex for something that claims to be a "Prime Directive". It'd be like adding a dozen sub-sections to the first Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Is it possible, what was a simple rule to not fuck up pre-warp civilizations in TOS was legislated to death by TNG, so you got stuff like letting races die, and Picard's actions in "Redemption"?

[Stofsk]

It's possible that what started off as a general rule over time became burdened with complication after complication as a result of constant revising by legislators. Although bear in mind General Order 1 is a Starfleet rule, not a Federation one. Though the two are often interchangeable I don't think we ever hear about it being a Federation law as opposed to a Starfleet one, which leads to the possibility that civilians can 'violate' the prime directive or at least aren't held to the same standard.

[Captain Seafort]

I don't think we ever hear about it being a Federation law as opposed to a Starfleet one, which leads to the possibility that civilians can 'violate' the prime directive or at least aren't held to the same standard.

We hardly, if ever, saw civvies in a position to violate the PD, but Nikolao Rozhenko wasn't Starfleet, and seemed to be bound by it (legally, if not practically). Then again, he was an official cultural observer, so it's possible that the PD could apply to the UFP government but not private individuals.

[Stofsk]

Actually much to my chagrin I forgot about two TOS examples which state that civilians are beholden to it as well - 'Patterns of Force' and 'Bread and Circuses'. The former is understandable however, I do so want to forget 'Patterns of Force'.

[SeaTrooper]

... Although bear in mind General Order 1 is a Starfleet rule, not a Federation one. Though the two are often interchangeable I don't think we ever hear about it being a Federation law as opposed to a Starfleet one, which leads to the possibility that civilians can 'violate' the prime directive or at least aren't held to the same standard.

No, what we see is that Starfleet rules can be and are enforced on civilians. Taking DS9 as an example, were the charges of genetic manipulation leveled against Dr Bashir's parents from Starfleet rules and regulations, or from Federation Law? Either way, having them face a uniformed 'Starfleet' officer opens up a whole can of worms. Exactly how far does Starfleet power run? We regularly see them in the role of cops, thought typically out beyond UFP 'civilisation' of course, but then we saw them acting as Judge and Jury as well.

What might explain this is Starfleet having 'rocks and shoals' only enforcable on their own members, while also being responsible for enforcing Federation law on everyone else. And when far enough out from the core-Fed that the normal justice system is not readily available, they fill all of its roles from among their own number. Drumhead court martials, anyone?

[lstyer]

Maybe "General Order 1" and "The Prime Directive" aren't exactly the same thing, but are instead two expressions of the same concept. General Order 1 might be the Starfleet codification of the general Federation-wide non-interference principle of the Prime Directive. I'm not sure that really holds up, but it might be something.

As far as Worf's brother, though, while he wasn't a member of Starfleet, his work may have been sponsored by Starfleet in such a manner that he might be governed by some portion of Starfleet regulations.

In the alternative, civilians outside of, say, the diplomatic corps, probably aren't authorized to engage in foreign policy. Since any culture protected by the Prime Directive is arguably a foreign nation, that might bring Prime Directive matters into into the realm of Starfleet regulations as a matter of foreign policy, which certainly seems to be among Starfleet's duties.

[Uraniun235]

It would be a pretty worthless policy to demand total non-interference from Starfleet if the citizenry was free to ignore it at will - you'd have nutjobs going around to underdeveloped alien worlds and declaring "Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel!" and nobody would be able to do anything about it. There's gotta be some law that requires the same behavior from Federation civilians towards non-contact worlds as from Starfleet officers.

[Agent Sorchus]

It could just be a simple law that if starfleet is prohibited then so would civilian shipping. That is to say that civilians technically could interfere, but they couldn't get there to interfere, sorta like the prohibition on visiting Genesis.

edit: this might also be why starfleet is the enforcer, it is a shipping violation that is based on the Prime Directive but not a violation in itself.

[Stofsk]

Guys, I already noted several instances where civilians are beholden to the prime directive.