Why did Janway make such weak demands during Voy Scorpion

[JasonB]

Here Captain Janeway chances get USS Voyager crew home with Trane- warp technology. Instead Janeway rather making demanding the Borg to agree to give them Tran-warp technology in return for weapon technology the Borg needed in order win alien race. She only asked to be allow cross though their space. Beyond ethic fact she willing sign become allies with Borg come fact that she willing to sell crew short.

[FedRebel]

The Borg aren't the type to hand out advanced technology like candy, plus giving a civilization of interest (which has repeatedly thwarted assimilation attempts) the technology to pose a direct threat to the collective is not a smart deal (especially in the weakened state the Borg are in as a result of 8472 raping them)

Anyways the Borg could "rig" a transwarp drive to deliver Voyager to a convenient assimilation location

A guarantee of safe passage is more palatable to the Borg and more controllable to the Voyager crew

The only thing Janeway did wrong was to deliberately seek an audience with the Borg, The fact that the Borg are engaged in full scale total war raises the possibility that the Collective would be too busy fighting for its own survival that they wouldn't harass one solitary Federation starship, and Voyager could slip through Borg space unnoticed.

[Prannon]

There is one plot convenience served by having Voyager seek out the Borg directly. If I recall the episode, 8472 was intending to purge the entire galaxy. Had not Voyager gotten in touch with the Borg as quickly as it had, then who's to say that they would have been able to counter 8472 later on? Of course...Voyager was able to pretty much defeat the aliens with relatively minor (considering the resources they could have brought to bear) assistance from the Borg as it was.

[PREDATOR490]

There is one plot convenience served by having Voyager seek out the Borg directly. If I recall the episode, 8472 was intending to purge the entire galaxy. Had not Voyager gotten in touch with the Borg as quickly as it had, then who's to say that they would have been able to counter 8472 later on? Of course...Voyager was able to pretty much defeat the aliens with relatively minor (considering the resources they could have brought to bear) assistance from the Borg as it was.

Not really, Janeways actions still fall under being extremely stupid.

Voyager entered a combat zone and got shot at. Big surprise.
The only information relating to S8472 wanting to 'purge' the galaxy comes from Kes - A completely unreliable and subjective source.
I dont imagine many would take what a soldier says in the field to be a 100% reflection of the entire species based on the account of ONE witness. Let alone use it as grounds to create bio-weapons and make an alliance with a KNOWN enemy.

Janeway decided to manufacture bio-weapons and potentially assist the Borg assimilate S8472 based on a single encounter with limited intelligence. The only plot convenience served is Janeway's desire to have the universe bow to her will and fuck anyone that gets in the way.

Could S8472 decide to continue purging the galaxy ? - Sure
Alternatively, S8472 could exterminate the Borg and leave - Ultimate win for the Federation AND Voyager

Voyager is on a 70 year trip home... waiting a couple of days / weeks / months to observe the progress of the war and gain information is hardly a great burden. Especially when Voyager can potentially salvage things from the ruins - I.E Transwarp drive, Borg tech etc.

Even if S8472 turn out to be hostile to everyone, a further weakened collective is going to be even more favourable to making a deal that benefits Voyager.

Even without that, assisting the Borg to assimilate another species just so they can get home is disgusting AND extremely unwise. The last thing you want is the Borg assimilating S8472 into their collective and gaining access to MORE technology. Its pretty obvious the Borg are going to take anything they get from S8472 and use it to further their goals of assimilating EVERYONE else. INCLUDING the Federation.

[Morilore]

The only information relating to S8472 wanting to 'purge' the galaxy comes from Kes - A completely unreliable and subjective source.
I dont imagine many would take what a soldier says in the field to be a 100% reflection of the entire species based on the account of ONE witness.

Actually, Kes learned of their intentions three separate times - once from the lone bioship pilot, once from a fleet that Voyager encountered halfway through part 1, and finally from the fleet that they fought in fluidic space.

[aussiemuscle308]

(which has repeatedly thwarted assimilation attempts)

please, two separate ships? hardly what i'd call a concerted effort on the borg's part. give me a battle group of borg shapes and kick the federation's ass back to the stone age.

[Stofsk]

(which has repeatedly thwarted assimilation attempts)

please, two separate ships? hardly what i'd call a concerted effort on the borg's part. give me a battle group of borg shapes and kick the federation's ass back to the stone age.

The first time they very nearly succeeded, and would have if it weren't for Data. They literally would not have been able to save Earth had it not been for him. So the Borg might have gone, wtf? 'That must have been a fluke.' One cube is all they needed, really.

Even in FC, one cube trashed much of the Fleet and there was only stragglers remaining by the time the cube made it into Earth orbit. If it weren't for the Enterprise and Picard's extraordinary ability to divine where to concentrate the fleet's firepower, Earth would have been fucked. Not to mention later on in the film, if it weren't for Data they would have still have been fucked. But I like to pretend FC doesn't exist.

[Baffalo]

The first time they very nearly succeeded, and would have if it weren't for Data. They literally would not have been able to save Earth had it not been for him. So the Borg might have gone, wtf? 'That must have been a fluke.' One cube is all they needed, really.

Even in FC, one cube trashed much of the Fleet and there was only stragglers remaining by the time the cube made it into Earth orbit. If it weren't for the Enterprise and Picard's extraordinary ability to divine where to concentrate the fleet's firepower, Earth would have been fucked. Not to mention later on in the film, if it weren't for Data they would have still have been fucked. But I like to pretend FC doesn't exist.

The Federation is extremely lucky, in terms of surviving the Borg. Perhaps the irony is that it took certain individuals to defeat a group that has, for the most part, purged the individual. But what I don't like is that they did include the Borg Queen. Basically, it was an excuse to give Picard a temptation to return to the darkness of the Borg collective and actually give Data a sort of succubus to draw on his loyalty. She's a plot device, nothing more.

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand. The Borg were getting absolutely raped by S8472, and as it turns out, Voyager shows up and manages to get what they want. Yes, the goals of Voyager and her crew is to get home, but Janeway should've tried to engage in first contact with S8472 first. The fact that she didn't and instead jumped on with the Borg was a bit short sighed, though she probably thought everything would be fine if S8472 had conventional warp drive and Voyager got back to Earth fast enough. Turns out, S8472 can spy on Earth. How the hell did they do that without actually travelling there and placing observers? If they can get there, then after Janeway made friends... why didn't Janeway ask for assistance getting home? It wouldn't be that hard really... just say, "Hey, could you get us home super quick? Please? Then we can let you talk to our leaders and help you wage war against the Borg."

The fact that Janeway ignored this crucial bit of information, shows that she isn't really qualified for command. She had the opportunity, and blew it. She nearly started a war with another species that the Federation wasn't at all aware of, and if they could quickly travel to Earth, the Federation would've been powerless to stop them. One minute, everything's fine, and then suddenly, boom. Alien invasion fleet here to kick Starfleet's ass because of a stupid captain on the other side of the galaxy. Janeway's name would've gone down in what's left of human history as the stupidest bitch ever.

[Metahive]

Turns out, S8472 can spy on Earth. How the hell did they do that without actually travelling there and placing observers? If they can get there, then after Janeway made friends... why didn't Janeway ask for assistance getting home? It wouldn't be that hard really... just say, "Hey, could you get us home super quick? Please? Then we can let you talk to our leaders and help you wage war against the Borg."

Yes, ally with a species that's only a smidgen more reasonable than the Daleks. Really smooth. And people think allying with the Borg was despicable?

The fact that Janeway ignored this crucial bit of information, shows that she isn't really qualified for command. She had the opportunity, and blew it. She nearly started a war with another species that the Federation wasn't at all aware of, and if they could quickly travel to Earth, the Federation would've been powerless to stop them. One minute, everything's fine, and then suddenly, boom. Alien invasion fleet here to kick Starfleet's ass because of a stupid captain on the other side of the galaxy. Janeway's name would've gone down in what's left of human history as the stupidest bitch ever.

You forget 8472 opened hostlities on Voyager first without provocation and clearly expressed their intention to murder anyone weaker than them. "THE WEAK SHALL PERISH!" anyone?

It's amazing, there's so much to legitimately take Janeway to task for, but people instead chastise her over actions that actually make sense.

[Big Orange]

I more or less agree with Metahive; we may have not fully known their ultimate intentions and their actual civilization remains a mystery, but by having one their soldiers without real provocation attacking and mortally wounding Ensign Harry Kim then going after the rest of the crew, with Kes creeped out by their genocidal thoughts, it seemed obvious Species 8472 in "Scorpion" were a malevolent and destructive force that did not intend the Milky Way well. The only ambiguity being Arturis from "Hope and Fear" feeling that Species 8472 attacking the Borg was buying his beleaguered people time, although it would've most likely been borrowed and limited with a victorious Species 8472 getting round to eradicating them anyhow.

Janeway was shown to be a hypocrite after "Alliances", however it seemed like she was more angered by the Trade leadership lying in her face and manipulating her.

[Sela]

Does the episode - by any chance - explain why the borg don't just assimilate voyager to get the information they need on destructive weaponary manufacture? Lord knows that the Borg are able to learn by assimilating them, and the review SFDebris put up makes it seem like the Voyager crew had already developed the nanites.

[Metahive]

Janeway stored the information within the Doctor's program and ordered him to delete the small batch he had already created to cure Harry and himself if the Borg tried to get the plans violently.