Symbolism in Star Trek

[Stofsk]

Anyway, IIRC the only time we ever actually see the borg symbol was in Descent, and those borg were the 'individuals' that Hugh affected.

It actually appeared as far back as "Q Who" but it was subtle as hell (you blink you may miss it): http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... who228.jpg

That's awesome! Thanks for posting that screenshot, I never saw it before.

[FaxModem1]

To me, the Cardassian symbol has always looked rather like a cobra. Which makes sense, seeing as how the Cardassians are supposed to be a bit reptilian.

[edaw1982]

Upon thinking about it, shouldn't/Wouldn't Vulcans be a 'bit reptillian?
They live on a desert world, they have nicitating membranes, got 'weird coloured blood'.

Or is Vulcan a desert because the Vulcans were all temperamental and 'Highly emotional' and went all "Fallout" on their Homeworld before Surak went 'Hey guys lets chillax a moment'?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Or is Vulcan a desert because the Vulcans were all temperamental and 'Highly emotional' and went all "Fallout" on their Homeworld before Surak went 'Hey guys lets chillax a moment'?

That's pretty much what we saw in Enterprise, when Archer is carrying Surak's Katra.

[Prometheus Unbound]

It actually appeared as far back as "Q Who" but it was subtle as hell (you blink you may miss it): http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... who228.jpg

Hmm, ignoring Descent (which had it on the Floor as a big symbol), to me that looks like a palm scanner / hand print activation panel. I don't think it was meant to be a symbol.

But then Descent came along (the next time we saw it, IIRC) and made it in to the de facto symbol for Lore's Borg.

I wonder if it showed up in TBOBW...

[Stofsk]

I am pretty sure that it was intended to be their symbol, rather than a hand scanner. It couldn't be a hand scanner, it's too big.

[JME2]

I wonder if it showed up in TBOBW...

I think it did in Part 1 when Shelby leads the away team.

[Skylon]

I wonder if it showed up in TBOBW...

It did, shortly after Picard was nabbed and the Collective was addressing him. Again, really quick, and not huge. I couldn't find a good screencap of it. Since the Borg place so little emphasis on symbols it would explain why they don't have giant banners of the thing around. It could be just something engrained in their collective memory as their "flag" of sorts.

I'd call it a "DANGER! HIGH VOLTAGE!" sign before I'd speculate its a hand scanner, but such a sign makes less sense for the Borg - I think it was intended as their symbol.

[JME2]

It did, shortly after Picard was nabbed and the Collective was addressing him. Again, really quick, and not huge. I couldn't find a good screencap of it. Since the Borg place so little emphasis on symbols it would explain why they don't have giant banners of the thing around. It could be just something engrained in their collective memory as their "flag" of sorts.

Found it; it's in the lower right-hand corner.

[Baffalo]

Wow. I don't know if someone actually thought this out or if it's a case of "hey let's use this thingy".

Since we're having so much fun with this, I say we go on with a few more:

The Bajorans

The Trill

The Maquis

And the Circle from DS9

[Darmalus]

What always gets me is how complicated some of these symbols are. If you couldn't show someone a picture or draw one, how would you even describe the Bajoran symbol, or the mess of lines on the Borg symbol?

[Baffalo]

What always gets me is how complicated some of these symbols are. If you couldn't show someone a picture or draw one, how would you even describe the Bajoran symbol, or the mess of lines on the Borg symbol?

How would you describe the layout of the American flag? How would someone from Saudi Arabia describe the writing on their flag? Most of the time it doesn't matter how you describe it because it's a symbol for you to tell your stuff apart. Besides, the Borg aren't going to explain when a few nanites can.

[edaw1982]

The Bajoran symbol looks like something they'd wear.
Although the 'How do you describe' thing is very astute. I mean sure, most people (through pop-cultural osmosis) know what one means when one says 'The Stars-n-stripes' or 'The Union Jack', but saying it to someone who doesn't get a lot of British or American TV, that doesn't mean a bloody thing to them.

The Bajoran insignia might be called the 'Shugglewuggle' (short for ShuggleNu'au Gau'Rak Mu'tuktakkitiki-ling-dong-long ), and all the DS9ers know what that means, and Bajorans know what it means...but you talk about 'The Shugglewuggle' to an outsider and you'd get a blank look.

[Ahriman238]

What always gets me is how complicated some of these symbols are. If you couldn't show someone a picture or draw one, how would you even describe the Bajoran symbol, or the mess of lines on the Borg symbol?

Umm... It's generally not actually that hard.

A bunch of stars in a circle, 3 much larger than the others, with the whole mess surrounded by a wreath.

Delta shape with an elongated star in the middle.

Some kind of Eagle or similar bird of prey, looks like it was made from blades. Possibly missing a head, unless the black triangle on the chest is supposed to be the head. Clutching two planets in it's talons.

Small circle, at the bottom of a tall elipse, with a long line running right down the middle.

Small circle at the bottom of a tall elipse, with a lightning bolt running down the middle.

Imagine a red block. Now cut off the top two corners to make it pointy, and the bottom corners but round them. Now cut two notches in the side, going diagnol down and inside, and two in the top at slightly milder angles.

A black, clawed hand sign on a red circuitboard background.

[Baffalo]

The point of most flags is national pride for the people represented by the flag. Sure, it can get complicated, especially for outsiders, but most flags are themselves a symbol regardless of what's actually on the flag. The thirteen red and white stripes on the US flag represent the original 13 colonies, a source of pride for us. The UK's flag is a combination of England, Scotland and Wales' flags, because they're united. The Israeli flag has a blue Star of David on it. They're symbols in and of themselves with a history that helps people remember where they came from and who they are. Now of course, I've gotten into the whole "Nationalism is bad" argument before and don't wish to again, but that's what the flag is there to do. To reinforce nationalism.

According to Memory Beta, the symbol for Bajor is actually the Bajoran Republic, though it's turned up in numerous other places as well before there was a Bajoran Republic. Whether it's the republic pre-Cardassian Occupation or not, it's still a symbol that holds significance for them.

[JME2]

According to Memory Beta, the symbol for Bajor is actually the Bajoran Republic, though it's turned up in numerous other places as well before there was a Bajoran Republic. Whether it's the republic pre-Cardassian Occupation or not, it's still a symbol that holds significance for them.

I think it showed up in the Terok Nor trilogy, but it's been a while so I could be wrong.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Just to be picky, the Union Flag of Great Britain is composed of English, Scottish and irish flags, the Welsh aren't included for two reasons:

1: They're a principality and conquered by the English, not a nation that joined in an Act of Union like Scotland (de facto 1603 with the Acession of James VI/I) and Ireland (1801/3 IIRC)
2. The Welsh flag would be a bastard to fit in with the others.

[Baffalo]

Just to be picky, the Union Flag of Great Britain is composed of English, Scottish and irish flags, the Welsh aren't included for two reasons:

1: They're a principality and conquered by the English, not a nation that joined in an Act of Union like Scotland (de facto 1603 with the Acession of James VI/I) and Ireland (1801/3 IIRC)
2. The Welsh flag would be a bastard to fit in with the others.

I'm sorry, I knew that and typed Wales instead of Ireland. I have no idea why.