Celebrating 20 Years of DS9

[darth_timon]

Nog's injury also brings up memories of RDM's IGN interview and the insane argument between Berman and Behr about how much of his leg Nog should lose.

Berman didn't like the Dominion War at all. At first he authorized a 2 episode war. Then allowed it to run for 4 episodes. The writers said "Sure, we can wrap up the war in 4 episodes" and then ran with it knowing Berman couldn't stop them by this point.

I think the original six episode arc in season 6 ending with the taking of DS9 was fleshed from the original restrictions. The way the structure came out, they could have easily ended the war with the victory at DS9. But by this point the writers knew they could keep the war going and explore all the themes they had wanted to.

And as a result we have had some of the most contraversial episodes in Trek. Not because they were stupid. But because they challenged peoples preconceptions about what Trek is.

Section 31 plots
Siege of AR-558
By the Pale Moonlight
Waltz
Its only a Paper Moon
Rocks and Shoals

Each episode challenged the perfect paradise view of the Federation. Pre Dominion War episodes involving the Maquis further drove these themes home. Even Homefront and Paradise Lost.

And Berman hated it all.

I remember reading somewhere that Behr had to fight tooth and nail to get the Nog amputation past Berman. Originally Behr wanted to blow both of Nog's legs off, then it was a case of negotiating how much of the leg to lose.

[JME2]

Which is why I agree with RDM that the whole thing was surreal, fucking insane -- and indicative of how detached from reality Berman was.

[RogueIce]

Well in TNG the Klingon Civil War lasted for all of a two-parter and was mostly off screen to boot, wasn't it?

I suppose for Berman "real war" just didn't belong in the 'utopian vision' of the TNG era.

[Batman]

Which reality? In or out of universe? In universe, yeah, war is hell, terrible things happen. Out of universe, they were doing a TV series, and Berman's reluctance to go along with the grimdark war is hell stuff does seem to be in accordance with Gene's apparent intentions for TNG Trek.

[Steve]

You mean the Roddenberry Box where Stories Went To Die? Honestly there are times I feel Star Trek succeeded despite Gene Roddenberry, not because of him.

[Flagg]

Which reality? In or out of universe? In universe, yeah, war is hell, terrible things happen. Out of universe, they were doing a TV series, and Berman's reluctance to go along with the grimdark war is hell stuff does seem to be in accordance with Gene's apparent intentions for TNG Trek.

Fuck Gene Roddenberry. He was a drunken cunt.

[Batman]

You mean the Roddenberry Box where Stories Went To Die? Honestly there are times I feel Star Trek succeeded despite Gene Roddenberry, not because of him.

Indeed. I did not in any way mean to imply I considered that a good idea, merely showing it up as one possible reason for Berman's reluctance to allow proper war stories.

[Terralthra]

For me, I fell in love with DS9 during the episode Explorers. The combination of the (incredibly scientifically inaccurate, but nonetheless amazing-looking) lightship, and Julian and Miles singing "Jerusalem" while drunk just got me. In retrospect, taking the transporter-slider-pusher and fleshing him and his family out was one of DS9's triumphs. I liked (as did many others, I gather) that Miles and Julian felt like they were actually friends. During the time-skip forward bits of All Good Things, it felt like Data, Geordi, et al., were humoring an old colleague, not that they were friends like Julian and Miles were.

[Flagg]

I got hooked during the episode where Kira trained Dukat and Damar how to fight the Klingons on that old cargo ship and they stole the BoP and then Dukat murdered the Klingongs they had transported onto the cargo ship. It was still Star Trek, but differen and not in a bad way.

[Gandalf]

I got hooked my the first episode I saw; Little Green Men. Because it was a fun little story. It was silly. It was funny. It was perfect. It's a good place to start when you're 12.

Straight after that, I saw the start of the Dominion War. I saw it all out of sequence, as the local video store was unreliable.

[Thanas]

Duet was the episode which hooked me and it still is my favorite episode of DS9.

[JME2]

Duet was the episode which hooked me and it still is my favorite episode of DS9.

It's my second favorite after "In the Pale Moonlight".

[Tsyroc]

I think I really started liking the show a great deal with The Circle Trilogy.

Interesting politics and religion in a Trek show. A bit of a change from TNG at the time. Primarily the 3 episode arc.

[Optimus Metallus]

Yeah, the Circle three-parter was fantastic. And I loved the character of Lee Nalis. Duet was amazing as well. Personally I thought DS9's first season ended really strongly. I can't think of any other Star Trek show that did so well with the end of its first season, or which have episodes that can stand up to Duet and the Circle trilogy.

[JME2]

I've been rewatching some of the early episodes like "Emisarry" and "Duet". I'm in a Cardassian mood and it's really odd.

I don't mean odd as in this is the pre-Dominion era. It's odd seeing the Cardassian Union where it is during this time-frame in the franchise and knowing that seven years later, this player in Alpha Quadrant geopolitics, this mighty empire, will be nothing more than a rump state.