The changing nature of dilithium

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-03-30 03:58am

Dilithium: the wonder mineral. Integral to the function of the warp core, its purpose and properties have nevertheless changed radically over the years. According to TNG, dilithium functions as a moderator to regulate the matter/antimatter reaction and seems akin to the control rod of a present-day nuclear reactor (bizarre that a reactor which is essentially a fusion system should employ what appears to be a fission-based control element).

But in TOS, dilithium serves a very different function and possesses different properties. In the Original Series, dilithium is the central element of a starship's energisers. It appears to store charge and is used like an amplification crystal. Dilithium crystals can be drained of their power and have to be reenergised ("The Alternative Factor"). Also, without dilithium crystals, the ship's power cannot feed through to the rest of its systems, depriving it of engine power, phasers, and other high-energy systems such as cloaking devices ("Mudd's Women", "The Alternative Factor", "Elaan Of Troyus" ST4:TVH).

The properties of the TOS version of dilithium seem to fit better with the concept of an energy converter, and it can be inferred that the feed of impulse reactor power through the dilithium converter assembly was what enabled Scotty to recharge one phaser bank on the wrecked starship Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine" —since that ship was deprived of useable matter/antimatter fuel. Whereas without a functioning dilithium converter it was not possible for Scotty to pull off a similar feat in "Elaan Of Troyus" (until he was able to obtain fresh crystals, that is).

The TOS version of dilithium seems more logical, overall.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-03-30 04:48am

I'm still confused regarding "intermix ratios".

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-03-30 05:09am

Well, M/AM intermix ratios are really a non-issue as far as TOS is concerned and have little to do with the question of the properties and function of dilithium.

Intermix ratios were first mentioned in the first season TNG episode "Coming Of Age", when Wesley Crusher is at Relva VII to take his Starfleet Academy entrance exam. In that episode, the question on the test was a trick, since the only correct ratio for the fusion of matter and antimatter reactants is 1:1. This is actually correct, since introducing any greater number of either matter or antimatter reactants would be a waste of fuel elements (and all that extra antimatter could do is attack the structure of the reaciton chamber),

It was a later TNG episode which got it dead wrong, but this was when the writing was starting to get technobabble-goofy.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-03-30 03:17pm

Patrick Degan wrote:Well, M/AM intermix ratios are really a non-issue as far as TOS is concerned and have little to do with the question of the properties and function of dilithium.

Intermix ratios were first mentioned in the first season TNG episode "Coming Of Age", when Wesley Crusher is at Relva VII to take his Starfleet Academy entrance exam. In that episode, the question on the test was a trick, since the only correct ratio for the fusion of matter and antimatter reactants is 1:1. This is actually correct, since introducing any greater number of either matter or antimatter reactants would be a waste of fuel elements (and all that extra antimatter could do is attack the structure of the reaciton chamber),

Yeah. What a stupid question for an entrance exam...Crusher was supposed to be a prodigy and he's tested with something like that?

"Mr. Crusher, what's the class name of your mother's ship? And what's the name of that ship? Who's her captain? (The ship, not the doctor's...though that would work too

.)"

"Great Bird...that's right on every count! You are admitted to the Academy; we'll even go ahead and pass you through your first two years. You are a fucking GENIUS!"

No wonder Janeway is an admiral now.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-30 04:16pm

seanrobertson wrote:Yeah. What a stupid question for an entrance exam...Crusher was supposed to be a prodigy and he's tested with something like that?

Need I mention the sonic weapons in space again, cracks in event horizons, etc? I seriously think the Federation is a higher-level version of the Pakleds. They're using technology they don't entirely understand and which they've learned to use and modify. Look at how rapidly Voyager advanced when it was able to assimilate a Borg drone and some Borg technology, or how much the Kelvans were able to enhance the ship without having to modify it. Much like an auto mechanic who can easily put a car together or modify it or even come up with performance improvements, but doesn't really understand any of the underlying principles and is reliant upon the availability of predesigned components which he can tinker with. Perhaps a better analogy is a post-apocalyptic world like Mad Max, where they cobble stuff together from the detritus of society, and over time have learned to duplicate some of it without entirely understanding it. Most of the species in Trek seem to share a common technology base, perhaps based on duplication of equipment left behind by some ancient race (a little like the jumpgates in B5, which employ physics that they don't entirely understand but whose workings they can duplicate).

However, I should actually point out that a matter/antimatter ratio of 1:1 might not necessarily be ideal. If I were designing a reactor (working under the assumption that the M/AM pumping technology and nozzles are already there for me, so I don't have to worry about that shit), I would probably use an intermix ratio which favours matter over antimatter, the rationale being that excess matter reduces the rate of reactor wall degradation from stray antimatter particles.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-30 04:57pm

On the other hand, you'd need some way to clean out the reactor, as all of that extra matter would build up. Presumably you'd want to run it rich on matter for a little while, then drop it back to 1:1 so you don't fill up the chamber any more.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-30 06:18pm

Howedar wrote:On the other hand, you'd need some way to clean out the reactor, as all of that extra matter would build up. Presumably you'd want to run it rich on matter for a little while, then drop it back to 1:1 so you don't fill up the chamber any more.

Since they pass plasma through the reactor chamber, this would not be a problem since there must be some kind of venting.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-30 06:49pm

True.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-03-30 07:01pm

I was under the impression the intermix was mentioned in the TOS episode where they "cold-started" the Enterprise.

I'm really sure it was mentioned in TMP. Though maybe in those instances it referred to something occurring in the nacelles...

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-03-30 08:37pm

Uraniun235 wrote:I was under the impression the intermix was mentioned in the TOS episode where they "cold-started" the Enterprise.

Ah, you're thinking of "The Naked Time". No, what they spoke of in that situation was "intermix formula" and "intermix temperature", but nothing beyond that.

As for TMP, I'll have to watch the movie again.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-01 01:44am

i think people are forgetting that, when they say Wesley was a prodigy, he could add 2 and 2 and actually get 4

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-01 07:16am

Darth Wong wrote:However, I should actually point out that a matter/antimatter ratio of 1:1 might not necessarily be ideal. If I were designing a reactor (working under the assumption that the M/AM pumping technology and nozzles are already there for me, so I don't have to worry about that shit), I would probably use an intermix ratio which favours matter over antimatter, the rationale being that excess matter reduces the rate of reactor wall degradation from stray antimatter particles.

Couldn't one just use antimatter in such small quantities that it just heats something instead of destroying it, like how fuel rods are heated in todays reactors?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-04-01 08:46am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:However, I should actually point out that a matter/antimatter ratio of 1:1 might not necessarily be ideal. If I were designing a reactor (working under the assumption that the M/AM pumping technology and nozzles are already there for me, so I don't have to worry about that shit), I would probably use an intermix ratio which favours matter over antimatter, the rationale being that excess matter reduces the rate of reactor wall degradation from stray antimatter particles.
Couldn't one just use antimatter in such small quantities that it just heats something instead of destroying it, like how fuel rods are heated in todays reactors?

You do realize that an antimatter particle hitting a matter particle causes a nasty explosion, right? No middle ground.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-01 12:20pm

SirNitram wrote: You do realize that an antimatter particle hitting a matter particle causes a nasty explosion, right? No middle ground.

Durrrrrrrrr...............

No, do you realize, at all, what you are talking about?

You seem to misunderstand the basic concepts pretty decidedly here

1) What a MA/AM reaction do is release energy in the form of radiation, just more of it, anyway that radiation can be absorbed by matter, and that matter will heat up.

2) The concept of an explosion... An explosion as we know it, requires atmosphere, or some matter that energy can be transfered rapidly into so that it expands very very quickly, thats an explosion.

Just because two MA/AM particles meet doesn't mean there's going to be some firely explosion...

Anyway, getting back on track....
By having only a small amount of particles reacting, as in a slow trickle, there could be some surrounding shell that absorbs the radiation and therefore, heats up, this can be used to heat water which will run a turbine.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-04-01 12:39pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
SirNitram wrote: You do realize that an antimatter particle hitting a matter particle causes a nasty explosion, right? No middle ground.
Durrrrrrrrr...............

No, do you realize, at all, what you are talking about?

You seem to misunderstand the basic concepts pretty decidedly here

1) What a MA/AM reaction do is release energy in the form of radiation, just more of it, anyway that radiation can be absorbed by matter, and that matter will heat up.

2) The concept of an explosion... An explosion as we know it, requires atmosphere, or some matter that energy can be transfered rapidly into so that it expands very very quickly, thats an explosion.

That's a shockwave. An explosion can happen in a void. But I see the problem: Differing interpretations of what to call the annihilation of matter.

Just because two MA/AM particles meet doesn't mean there's going to be some firely explosion...

Anyway, getting back on track....
By having only a small amount of particles reacting, as in a slow trickle, there could be some surrounding shell that absorbs the radiation and therefore, heats up, this can be used to heat water which will run a turbine.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-04-01 01:22pm

SirNitram wrote: You do realize that an antimatter particle hitting a matter particle causes a nasty explosion, right? No middle ground.

A proton colliding with an antiproton will result in a "nasty" energy release of 3E-10 J. Yikes. Get 3 billion of those reactions together and you'll have nearly a whole joule!

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-01 01:41pm

On that note, this link:
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/
Then:
Left Menu -> Misc. Projects -> Antimatter Calculator and TADA!

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-04-03 12:49am

Hmm... the discussion seems to have wandered afield. Might I suggest the moderators split the M/AM reactor material into its own thread?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-03 01:11am

Patrick Degan wrote:Hmm... the discussion seems to have wandered afield. Might I suggest the moderators split the M/AM reactor material into its own thread?

Support me, as one megatron to another!

No really, do you have any comments?