The Borg were originally meant to be the ultimate threat

[Superman]

Remember, the "Q Who" episode? The entire premise of this one was Q showing Picard that humanity was not ready to venture out into space on their own. When Picard said otherwise, Q introduced them to the Borg. Q didn't say, "In a few years, the Borg and the Federation will be roughly on the same tech level so don't worry." He never once hinted that single science ships (Voyager) will take on entire cubes. The idea was that THEY WERE WHAT HUMANITY WAS NOT READY TO DEAL WITH. There is no excuse for their pussification.

Not only that but the original Borg were not quite as stupid. Again, a single Borg beamed into the Enterprise to examine it BEFORE engaging it in combat. Only after the Borg investigated (a point drastically changed in Voyager when the doctor declared that Borg learn by "assimilation, not investigation") did they tell Picard to surrender.

[Sir Sirius]

Yeah, the Borg pussification is just one MANY, MANY reasons I hate Voyager. B&B just introduced them in Voy to save the ratings and in the process made them wimps, Assholes.

[Peregrin Toker]

Remember, the "Q Who" episode? The entire premise of this one was Q showing Picard that humanity was not ready to venture out into space on their own. When Picard said otherwise, Q introduced them to the Borg. Q didn't say, "In a few years, the Borg and the Federation will be roughly on the same tech level so don't worry." He never once hinted that single science ships (Voyager) will take on entire cubes. The idea was that THEY WERE WHAT HUMANITY WAS NOT READY TO DEAL WITH. There is no excuse for their pussification.

Not only that, but the Ferengi were originally intended too as militarly superior to the Federation and mayhap even the Klingons! Instead, they wound up as a bunch of buffoons. I wonder what Trek had been like if the Ferengi had been the vicious space pirates Gene Roddenberry wanted them to be?

[DarthBlight]

I wonder what Trek had been like if the Ferengi had been the vicious space pirates Gene Roddenberry wanted them to be?

A whole lot better for one.

In more depth, it would have been cool to see battles between the Federation and Ferengi pirates. Also, there could have been crews of Ferengi, Klingon mercenaries, and various impressed sailors. And the women . . .

Anyone for seeing Tasha Yar in a Leia-style bikini as Ferengi captain meat? Troi? Crusher? Wesley could be first mate meat too . . .

Oh, the possibilities!

[The Silence and I]

I said it before, I will say it again. Voy. did. not. happen. If you want to keep it around (No *idea* why you would) I am willing to say it existed in the same timeline that Enterprise is now fouling.

No, I will not be persuaded otherwise

Non of Star Trek was that great with continuity, but coome on! Those two shows... Continuity is not even in their dictionary!

[Peregrin Toker]

In more depth, it would have been cool to see battles between the Federation and Ferengi pirates. Also, there could have been crews of Ferengi, Klingon mercenaries, and various impressed sailors. And the women . . .

Arr, yarr, narr! If any sci-fi cliché is immortal, it's gotta be space pirates.

[Death from the Sea]

Yo supes.

I gotta say, I have noticed your hatred of the borg (or at least the pussification of them). What is the cause of this hatred?

[Lord Pounder]

Well the ferengi do have the best build up or any TNG race. There ships are also pretty nasty looking. The D'Kora class Maurader just looks bad ass. Sadly the Ferengi where beaten before they started. They where created by a closet communist, then developed further by guys who just like pissing on Rodenberrys creation.

[NecronLord]

In more depth, it would have been cool to see battles between the Federation and Ferengi pirates. Also, there could have been crews of Ferengi, Klingon mercenaries, and various impressed sailors. And the women . . .

Anyone for seeing Tasha Yar in a Leia-style bikini as Ferengi captain meat? Troi? Crusher? Wesley could be first mate meat too . . .

Oh, the possibilities!

*Scribbles on the list of fanfics to write.*

[DarthBlight]

*Scribbles on the list of fanfics to write.*

Damn it! I need more "me" time!

[Superman]

During TNG, the Borg were my favorite. What I hate is Voyager.

[Ted C]

Paramount seems to have the same problem that comic book companies have; they can't leave a good thing alone.

It's like Marvel's Secret Wars mini-series: it was a great little self-contained ride with a nice sense of closure at the end.

Then they had to do Secret Wars II and throw in a half million cross-overs to try to sell all their other books, and it sucked.

Then they had to go and retconn the Beyonder into some kind of broken Cosmic Cube.

Much the same thing happened to the Borg.

[Death from the Sea]

During TNG, the Borg were my favorite. What I hate is Voyager.

Gotcha. Voyagers problem with the Borg was that they regularly escaped the borg, and stood up to them in one on one fights. Realistically the borg should have assimilated Voyager easily and sometimes I tell myself that is what happened and the rest of Voyager was just a dream of the crew while being assimilated....

[Admiral Johnason]

Remember, the "Q Who" episode? The entire premise of this one was Q showing Picard that humanity was not ready to venture out into space on their own. When Picard said otherwise, Q introduced them to the Borg. Q didn't say, "In a few years, the Borg and the Federation will be roughly on the same tech level so don't worry." He never once hinted that single science ships (Voyager) will take on entire cubes. The idea was that THEY WERE WHAT HUMANITY WAS NOT READY TO DEAL WITH. There is no excuse for their pussification.

Not only that, but the Ferengi were originally intended too as militarly superior to the Federation and mayhap even the Klingons! Instead, they wound up as a bunch of buffoons. I wonder what Trek had been like if the Ferengi had been the vicious space pirates Gene Roddenberry wanted them to be?

You forgot the Romulans, the Domimion and the Cardies.

[Captain Cyran]

I wonder what Trek had been like if the Ferengi had been the vicious space pirates Gene Roddenberry wanted them to be?

Well, if Star Trek had gone the way of Roddenberry they would actually be able to stand up to Wars. The federation would be HELLA powerful. Pity that Gene hired B&B....

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I wonder what Trek had been like if the Ferengi had been the vicious space pirates Gene Roddenberry wanted them to be?

Well, if Star Trek had gone the way of Roddenberry they would actually be able to stand up to Wars. The federation would be HELLA powerful. Pity that Gene hired B&B....

You mean like in Season 2, with Gene IIRC still in control, a TW being more then the E-D can generate?

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I doubt Roddenberry could have forseen the evils of B&B. He probably just thought, "Hey! These guys have degrees in (some art degree...), they might be good for my show....*wheeze, gag, fall over dead*" At which point B&B laughed eviley. It was allllll downhill from there.

The Borg being pussified, the Klingons being Viking-ized (and thereby pussified), the Ferengi being pussified, the Romulans being pussified (c'mon, it used to take balls to stand up to a Romulon BoP, now its just, "Fire the phasers!" POW!!!); hell even B&Bs own creations end up getting pussified, remember S-8472 who completely OWNED the Borg? Bah Voyager can handle any threat! And ANYTHING can be pussified by B&B!

It doesn't even make sense. The Federation was founded when all the above races in Trek had fully developed star empires! How the hell can a Federation - possibly CENTURIES behind these other races - be able to kick their ass on a regular basis? Piss-poor writing, that's how.

Fuck B&B.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Precisely.

In that kind of historically retarded position relative to neighbors, the Vulcans should really be the opposite number to the humans in the UFP with all desicions and such and policy and influence seemingly being in constant wrestle between the two most influencial races.

With that kind of behind-status...the UFP would've almost certainly taken a stand-off-ish and very military-prepared stance toward all the other regional powers.

[Gandalf]

The Borg we knew even in the olden days were not what was intended, Gene and the others wanted in insectoid race, but were cut due to budget reasons.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Which would've made more sense.

[Peregrin Toker]

Remember, the "Q Who" episode? The entire premise of this one was Q showing Picard that humanity was not ready to venture out into space on their own. When Picard said otherwise, Q introduced them to the Borg. Q didn't say, "In a few years, the Borg and the Federation will be roughly on the same tech level so don't worry." He never once hinted that single science ships (Voyager) will take on entire cubes. The idea was that THEY WERE WHAT HUMANITY WAS NOT READY TO DEAL WITH. There is no excuse for their pussification.

Not only that, but the Ferengi were originally intended too as militarly superior to the Federation and mayhap even the Klingons! Instead, they wound up as a bunch of buffoons. I wonder what Trek had been like if the Ferengi had been the vicious space pirates Gene Roddenberry wanted them to be?

You forgot the Romulans, the Domimion and the Cardies.

They also started bad-ass and ended lame??

The Borg we knew even in the olden days were not what was intended, Gene and the others wanted in insectoid race, but were cut due to budget reasons.

If the Borg were insectoid, I think Games Workshop might sue for ripping off the Tyranids... (OK, the Tyranids are more reptilian than insectoid, but they are often referred to as "bugs")

[Baron Mordo]

If the Borg were insectoid, I think Games Workshop might sue for ripping off the Tyranids... (OK, the Tyranids are more reptilian than insectoid, but they are often referred to as "bugs")

Not before H.R. Giger and Robert Heinlein do.

[Peregrin Toker]

If the Borg were insectoid, I think Games Workshop might sue for ripping off the Tyranids... (OK, the Tyranids are more reptilian than insectoid, but they are often referred to as "bugs")

Not before H.R. Giger and Robert Heinlein do.

I've never seen the Alien films, (shocking revelation) but did they ever refer to the Xenomorphs as "bugs"??? Besides, they always appeared more reptilian than insectoid to me...

Then again, Games Workshop are the sci-fi wargaming equivalent of Microsoft, so it'll be no surprise if they start lawsuits to the left and right.