Allies are never allied ffor long. The Federation will never share it's tech.Hades wrote:Well dont forget that they are allies with the federation since the Dominion war. Its posible that Technology was exchanged... or givenSr.mal wrote:Klingons don't have Pulse Phaser tech.
What a Klingon BoP should REALLY be like
Moderator: Vympel
Ever since I was a scumdog, I blew a cum-wad.
I need a mother-fucking suckadickalickalong
A drunk, a pervert, a junkie and a sodimizer.
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I need a mother-fucking suckadickalickalong
A drunk, a pervert, a junkie and a sodimizer.
But you can call me the salaminizer
-The Salaminzer by GWAR
Bird of Prey redesign (upscale it for the bigger models to)
Replace wing disruptors with dual rapid fire pulse phaser cannons.
Replace forward disrupter/warhead launcher with Rapid Fire Burst Torpedoe launcher
Add:
Under wing, over wing and top side dual rapid fire pulse phaser cannons.
(larger models only, unless it can be done without affecting atmospheric flight)
Forward firing dual rapid fire pulse phaser cannons on each side of bridge, where the neck meets the main body.
If need be, replace cargo hold capable of holding two adult humpack whales and several hundred tons of water with another warp core for weapon and shields.
Ablative Armor (Generators?)
Replace wing disruptors with dual rapid fire pulse phaser cannons.
Replace forward disrupter/warhead launcher with Rapid Fire Burst Torpedoe launcher
Add:
Under wing, over wing and top side dual rapid fire pulse phaser cannons.
(larger models only, unless it can be done without affecting atmospheric flight)
Forward firing dual rapid fire pulse phaser cannons on each side of bridge, where the neck meets the main body.
If need be, replace cargo hold capable of holding two adult humpack whales and several hundred tons of water with another warp core for weapon and shields.
Ablative Armor (Generators?)
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Lord Pounder
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Do you expect this BOP to fight Solauren? Why put on so may weapons only to find that the ship won't have the power of fire them. That sounds too much like over kill. The best thing is to leave the BOP as it is and try and build upgraded disrupters and powwergenerators that can lower the time between firing.
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Crazedwraith
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Poor Crazed Wraith
A Bird of Prey's cargo hold is big enough to hold 2 full sized adult humpback whales and several hundred tons of water. The dimensions of a humpback whale (according to AMERICAN CETACEAN SOCIETY) are 40 - 50 feet. Let's say 45 feet long. There tails are about 18 feet wide, and it's flippers extend 2/3 of the length of the body out from it.
The Whales in "Voyage home" looked comfortable, so obviously the cargo bay was long enough for a way, and wide enough for 2. Comfort means a little elbow room, so tThat implies at least 45 feet by 45 feet. It would imply larger, but the whales didn't look to have there flippers extended. The cargo bay was also at least a foot taller then James T Kirk, probably 2 or 3. Assuming 2 feet, that's a cargo hold of 45 feet by 45 feet and at least 8 feet wide.
I'd say that's enough room for a Galaxy Class Warp drive on it's side, probably 2 or more actually.
Lots of room for power
A Bird of Prey's cargo hold is big enough to hold 2 full sized adult humpback whales and several hundred tons of water. The dimensions of a humpback whale (according to AMERICAN CETACEAN SOCIETY) are 40 - 50 feet. Let's say 45 feet long. There tails are about 18 feet wide, and it's flippers extend 2/3 of the length of the body out from it.
The Whales in "Voyage home" looked comfortable, so obviously the cargo bay was long enough for a way, and wide enough for 2. Comfort means a little elbow room, so tThat implies at least 45 feet by 45 feet. It would imply larger, but the whales didn't look to have there flippers extended. The cargo bay was also at least a foot taller then James T Kirk, probably 2 or 3. Assuming 2 feet, that's a cargo hold of 45 feet by 45 feet and at least 8 feet wide.
I'd say that's enough room for a Galaxy Class Warp drive on it's side, probably 2 or more actually.
Lots of room for power
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HappyTarget
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Agreed, the BoP does seem to have quite a large cargo deck. Although I would go for another 1 or 2 Defiant style warp cores or their Klingon equivlanet, or just rip out the old one and damn near all the cargo space and shoehorn in the largest one that will fit while still being economical, both in cost and time between resupply (Galaxy dosn't have that biggass AM storage tank for nothing)I'd say that's enough room for a Galaxy Class Warp drive on it's side, probably 2 or more actually.
Lots of room for power
Galaxy class warp core is probably both a bit to big and a bit of a resource hog for something as small as a BoP. Would likley need to "refuel" quite often as the warp core takes up to much internal volume.
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Crazedwraith
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Patrick Ogaard
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I'll go out on a limb and say that the regular, smallish BoP is, at least measured by Star Trek standards, an almost perfectly designed ship.
On the speed side, it is not noticeably inferior to comparable vessels when moving at warp or impulse. There's always room for improvement, of course, and improved warp and impulse drives certainly can't hurt.
The firepower of the BoP is obviously not enough to allow an individual BoP to take on a real capital ship (cruisers, battle cruisers, etc.) on even terms, but is entirely adequate to take out comparable small warships. Small BoP squadrons can threaten capital ships.
A BoP can be operated by a small core crew and can effectively transport roughly a platoon-sized force of additional personnel when on a war footing. This meshes well with the atmospheric capabilities, landing ability, and large boarding ramp of the BoP. Add in the large, easily modified cargo hold with its large dorsal cargo hatch, and you've got an extremely versatile package.
The BoP can fly extremely slowly -- even hover for short periods -- when in atmosphere, its guns can be used to directly attack ground targets, and its cloaking device works in atmosphere. Also, as established in DS9's Blood Oath, the disruptors of a BoP are adequate to flood a sizeable area of a planetary surface with tetryon particles sufficient to render standard Star Trek energy weapons, at least the small arms, ineffective. That could allow a Klingon attack force to flex its oiled thews and hew the enemy in twain, and could explain the reflexive use of close combat weapons by Klingons even where ranged weapons would make more sense.
Taken together, the information from the paragraph above indicates that the BoP may actually pull duty as the standard troop carrier and planetary assault ship of the Klingons. With the cargo bay configured to carry troops -- some drywall, some iron bunks, a cage full of targs, a few barrels of toxic booze and live worms, a food replicator and a very large bucket whose contents get disintegrated periodically would be all that's needed to accommodate perhaps a company-sized force under austere conditions. In a covert assault the vessel simply comes in under cloak, lands, and begins to disembark troops. Otherwise it lands, fully shielded, as close as possible to the objective and lets the troops advance under cover of its disruptors or a weapons-blocking tetryon beam.
Similarly, the relatively large cargo space would allow the BoP to act as a relatively secure freighter for valuable goods and military supplies, especially when running cloaked. Sending a convoy of regular freighters full of torpedo casings or replacement parts for disrutpors into a combat zone is a recipe for lost freighters. Sending in a conovy composed of a half-dozen BoP might work better, especially since they offer a way to send needed supplies and replacement combat starships into a combat zone simultaneously.
The large cargo space also means that a BoP could be easily converted into a well-armed and luxurious VIP transport: the cargo bay could easily accommodate a good-sized reception area, modestly sized recreation areas and some spacious staterooms.
That cargo space has yet another obvious application when combined with the dorsal cargo hatch: shuttle bay. A Klingon taskforce involved in ground combat is unlikely to have permanent BoP support if the campaign on the ground goes on for any appreciable length of time. That's where having a squadron of shuttlecraft would come in handy. From transporting troops and materiel to providing battlefield fire support, suitably armed, armored and shielded shuttlecraft are an obvious choice.
The final possible application for the cargo space and its dorsal access is, of course, to turn the BoP into a fire support unit. A suitably configured module consisting of support systems -- like power generators or torpedo magazines -- within the cargo bay could be mated with either a large disruptor cannon or an equally large torpedo launcher designed to be carried in a pod that straddles and covers the open bay doors. The increased bulk and mass should have a drastic effect on the ship's speed and maneuverability, but in certain applications it might be useful to have a really big disruptor battering down enemy shields or a rapid fire torpedo launcher firing long strings of high yield torpedoes to bug the enemy.
That none of my not all that clever ideas have never been shown in visuals, or even alluded to in throwaway dialogue, proves that no one involved with recent Star Trek seems to actually watch the shows or the movies. For one thing, just the use of the tetryon beam trick to foil energy weapons would be a useful throwaway line to justify the idiotic Klingon insistence on using their knives against energy weapons.
Similarly, it would have probably been manageable, cost-wise, to show at least part of one of those Klingon ground assaults against the Dominion forces. A couple of low-resolution BoP touch down near a Dominion installation, one of the ships being blown apart by ground fire before the ground emplacements are silenced. One of the BoP disgorges a few shuttlecraft which zip around, adding their fire to that of the BoP and then dropping down to directly assault tactical objectives. The remaining BoP drop their ramps, and there is a close-up of a horde of Klingons storming down the ramp to smash straight into a small group of Jem'hadar. The Jem'hadar take aim, miss a beat, then realize the tetryon fields of the BoP squadron are blocking their weapons. The Jem'hadar club their rifles or pull out knives, and promptly go down under a wave of Klingons while Klingon assault shuttles blast away at some chokepoint in the background.
It would have been worth it.
On the speed side, it is not noticeably inferior to comparable vessels when moving at warp or impulse. There's always room for improvement, of course, and improved warp and impulse drives certainly can't hurt.
The firepower of the BoP is obviously not enough to allow an individual BoP to take on a real capital ship (cruisers, battle cruisers, etc.) on even terms, but is entirely adequate to take out comparable small warships. Small BoP squadrons can threaten capital ships.
A BoP can be operated by a small core crew and can effectively transport roughly a platoon-sized force of additional personnel when on a war footing. This meshes well with the atmospheric capabilities, landing ability, and large boarding ramp of the BoP. Add in the large, easily modified cargo hold with its large dorsal cargo hatch, and you've got an extremely versatile package.
The BoP can fly extremely slowly -- even hover for short periods -- when in atmosphere, its guns can be used to directly attack ground targets, and its cloaking device works in atmosphere. Also, as established in DS9's Blood Oath, the disruptors of a BoP are adequate to flood a sizeable area of a planetary surface with tetryon particles sufficient to render standard Star Trek energy weapons, at least the small arms, ineffective. That could allow a Klingon attack force to flex its oiled thews and hew the enemy in twain, and could explain the reflexive use of close combat weapons by Klingons even where ranged weapons would make more sense.
Taken together, the information from the paragraph above indicates that the BoP may actually pull duty as the standard troop carrier and planetary assault ship of the Klingons. With the cargo bay configured to carry troops -- some drywall, some iron bunks, a cage full of targs, a few barrels of toxic booze and live worms, a food replicator and a very large bucket whose contents get disintegrated periodically would be all that's needed to accommodate perhaps a company-sized force under austere conditions. In a covert assault the vessel simply comes in under cloak, lands, and begins to disembark troops. Otherwise it lands, fully shielded, as close as possible to the objective and lets the troops advance under cover of its disruptors or a weapons-blocking tetryon beam.
Similarly, the relatively large cargo space would allow the BoP to act as a relatively secure freighter for valuable goods and military supplies, especially when running cloaked. Sending a convoy of regular freighters full of torpedo casings or replacement parts for disrutpors into a combat zone is a recipe for lost freighters. Sending in a conovy composed of a half-dozen BoP might work better, especially since they offer a way to send needed supplies and replacement combat starships into a combat zone simultaneously.
The large cargo space also means that a BoP could be easily converted into a well-armed and luxurious VIP transport: the cargo bay could easily accommodate a good-sized reception area, modestly sized recreation areas and some spacious staterooms.
That cargo space has yet another obvious application when combined with the dorsal cargo hatch: shuttle bay. A Klingon taskforce involved in ground combat is unlikely to have permanent BoP support if the campaign on the ground goes on for any appreciable length of time. That's where having a squadron of shuttlecraft would come in handy. From transporting troops and materiel to providing battlefield fire support, suitably armed, armored and shielded shuttlecraft are an obvious choice.
The final possible application for the cargo space and its dorsal access is, of course, to turn the BoP into a fire support unit. A suitably configured module consisting of support systems -- like power generators or torpedo magazines -- within the cargo bay could be mated with either a large disruptor cannon or an equally large torpedo launcher designed to be carried in a pod that straddles and covers the open bay doors. The increased bulk and mass should have a drastic effect on the ship's speed and maneuverability, but in certain applications it might be useful to have a really big disruptor battering down enemy shields or a rapid fire torpedo launcher firing long strings of high yield torpedoes to bug the enemy.
That none of my not all that clever ideas have never been shown in visuals, or even alluded to in throwaway dialogue, proves that no one involved with recent Star Trek seems to actually watch the shows or the movies. For one thing, just the use of the tetryon beam trick to foil energy weapons would be a useful throwaway line to justify the idiotic Klingon insistence on using their knives against energy weapons.
Similarly, it would have probably been manageable, cost-wise, to show at least part of one of those Klingon ground assaults against the Dominion forces. A couple of low-resolution BoP touch down near a Dominion installation, one of the ships being blown apart by ground fire before the ground emplacements are silenced. One of the BoP disgorges a few shuttlecraft which zip around, adding their fire to that of the BoP and then dropping down to directly assault tactical objectives. The remaining BoP drop their ramps, and there is a close-up of a horde of Klingons storming down the ramp to smash straight into a small group of Jem'hadar. The Jem'hadar take aim, miss a beat, then realize the tetryon fields of the BoP squadron are blocking their weapons. The Jem'hadar club their rifles or pull out knives, and promptly go down under a wave of Klingons while Klingon assault shuttles blast away at some chokepoint in the background.
It would have been worth it.
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darthdavid
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HappyTarget
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Which is why I would advocate popping in a Defiant sized warp core, so that you still have room for added fuel and linkagesAny way if u stick more warp cores in it'll just make a bigger bang when they fail. You'll als be shortening the range of The BoP i mean running to 2 warp cores on the same amout of fuel means you will run out pretty quickly.
Agreed. It's about as perfect an execution of design funcition as one can get in Trek.I'll go out on a limb and say that the regular, smallish BoP is, at least measured by Star Trek standards, an almost perfectly designed ship.
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I'm glad the extra Warp core idea of mine got peopel talking.
Actually, I looked at my DS9 Tech manual last night, and took a look at how big the warp core was. It's SMALL. Lots of the info I've seen on them indicate it's about as powerful as a Galaxy class.
If it IS, toss one on a BOP, and turn the rest of the empty space into power storage.
Who cares if the BOP can't save the world either. I'm sure James T kirk would have figured something else out
Actually, I looked at my DS9 Tech manual last night, and took a look at how big the warp core was. It's SMALL. Lots of the info I've seen on them indicate it's about as powerful as a Galaxy class.
If it IS, toss one on a BOP, and turn the rest of the empty space into power storage.
Who cares if the BOP can't save the world either. I'm sure James T kirk would have figured something else out
Couldn't they just limit the fire of the disruptors? Like limiting the bursts on a machine gun?Sr.mal wrote:I agree, but diruptors are not phasers. The kid wanted pulse PHASERS put on the BoP.Admiral Johnason wrote:Disruptors are always fired in pulse mode. Didn't you see them fired in ST:G?Sr.mal wrote:Klingons don't have Pulse Phaser tech.
