Star Trek, five months later

[Bounty]

To be fair, we did get a fleet on-screen this time, even if they did get their asses whupped off-screen.

[Darth Wong]

To be fair, we did get a fleet on-screen this time, even if they did get their asses whupped off-screen.

That's what's so annoying about this incident: they had a ready-made explanation for the lack of reinforcements: they could simply say that the first fleet was all the ships they had in the whole region. There, presto! Problem solved. Instead, we hear that there's a second fleet nearby and Spock is going to fly to it instead of following Nero, because they're just going to sit there with their thumbs up their asses until Spock gets there. WTF?

I think it's pretty clear that the writers were just struggling for excuses to dump Kirk on the ice planet.

[Bounty]

Then again there's no reason why somebody on Vulcan with the interstellar equivalent of a pickup truck on the other side of the planet from Nero couldn't have hauled ass and told everyone there's a giant doom ship doing bad things.

One possible reason: slow civilian ships. We've seen this in Trek before; big new military ships are fast, everything else is stuck at low warp. It took the Enterprise several hours to limp back to Earth at warp 4-ish; if civilian ships are limited to the same speed, they could conceivably arrived along with the Enterprise.

I think it's pretty clear that the writers were just struggling for excuses to dump Kirk on the ice planet.

There may be a subplot there that got lost in the drafts. Up until filming Scotty was supposed to be introduced at a market on a desert planet; the more I hear the more I'm starting to think they had a big expensive scene set up and then went "oh shit, this isn't working, write something else real quick before the strike starts".

[Stark]

I'm not sure if I remember right, but was the Fleet Spock wanted to link up with the fleet that was at xyz sector keeping an eye on Klingons mentioned earlier?

It really does seem that the Federation was caught totally off-guard, if the majority of their ships were so far away they deployed the reserve training fleet to 'investigate' the business on Vulcan.

[Bounty]

I'm not sure if I remember right, but was the Fleet Spock wanted to link up with the fleet that was at xyz sector keeping an eye on Klingons mentioned earlier?

Admiral whatshisface just says the 'primary fleet' is 'engaged in the Laurentian system'.

[Stark]

Yeah. I figured it was related to Klingons, but there's no way to know (or even what 'engaged' means or where the Laurentian system is). Shame really.

[Darth Wong]

You would think that the complete destruction of Vulcan would pique their interest and get them moving, no matter what the hell is going on in the Laurentian system. Or do they not have FTL sensors now?

[Batman]

Assumes their FTL sensors have the range/resolution to detect the destruction of Vulcan from wherever the Laurentian system is. Does the movie in any way comment on that?

[Gramzamber]

Well the Enterprise can't tell that the rest of the fleet just got raped by Nero before faceplanting right into the wreckage, nor does anything pick up the doomship around Vulcan so maybe they just don't.

[Stark]

You would think that the complete destruction of Vulcan would pique their interest and get them moving, no matter what the hell is going on in the Laurentian system. Or do they not have FTL sensors now?

Do they have FTL comms, even? You'd think the fleets would have been in contact and they'd have noticed the sudden silence. Does the movie imply that the Laurentian fleet knows what's happened, or just that that's where it is?

[Gramzamber]

Do they have FTL comms, even? You'd think the fleets would have been in contact and they'd have noticed the sudden silence. Does the movie imply that the Laurentian fleet knows what's happened, or just that that's where it is?

As far as I remember they never mention the fleet knowing about the situation, or of any attempts to contact them other than Spock taking the Enterprise to meet up with them.

[Erik von Nein]

Well, the Klingons, at last, have FTL comms. Uhura was dicking around with some communications picked up from Klingon space about their fleet getting reamed by Nero (or an unknown ship) and translated it all by her lonesome. I'd be surprised if Starfleet didn't have similar communications ranges.

[Darth Wong]

I like the way the films explains the lack of communications by suggesting that Nero jams them ... but the writers continue to act as if communications are jammed even after Nero flies away. Does he have a multi-light year range for jamming now?

[Batman]

Well, the Klingons, at last, have FTL comms. Uhura was dicking around with some communications picked up from Klingon space about their fleet getting reamed by Nero (or an unknown ship) and translated it all by her lonesome. I'd be surprised if Starfleet didn't have similar communications ranges.

Err-If memory serves Uhura did so using Starfleet equipment so that'd be something of a given?

[erik_t]

Well, the Klingons, at last, have FTL comms. Uhura was dicking around with some communications picked up from Klingon space about their fleet getting reamed by Nero (or an unknown ship) and translated it all by her lonesome. I'd be surprised if Starfleet didn't have similar communications ranges.

There is no reason that sensors/comms cannot be faster than light but slower than ships, although that's certainly contrary to convention.

[Bounty]

Do they have FTL comms, even? You'd think the fleets would have been in contact and they'd have noticed the sudden silence.

They have, but they are not actively monitored. Pike asks his comms officer to listen in on traffic around Vulcan while the Enterprise is still at warp; they apparently weren't doing so before Kirk said it's a trap.

I like the way the films explains the lack of communications by suggesting that Nero jams them ... but the writers continue to act as if communications are jammed even after Nero flies away.

Like I said above, Spock says subspace radio is broken during his rant against Kirk ("we need engineering crews to patch radiation leaks on the lower decks and repair subspace radio"); it just gets drowned in Kirk shouting over him.

[Simon_Jester]

"Not actively monitored..."
Hmm. Could there be a range restriction? Maybe to get long range FTL transmissions through you need either an extremely sensitive antenna array receiving it (such as Starfleet HQ would have on Earth, but too big to fit on a mobile platform), or a tight beam signal that has to be deliberately aimed.

So Enterprise can't hear comm chatter around Vulcan until they get fairly close to the planet, unless someone specifically chooses to contact them.

[erik_t]

Or traveling FTL generates some self-noise that prevents hearing FTL communications and/or sensors. Presuming they're based on the same causality-raping principles, this actually seems quite sensible, rather like a submarine being blind at high speed.

[Bounty]

No, at least some FTL comms worked at warp; Pike says to mintor for Romulan chatter, and Uhura can't pick up anything.

[Darth Paxis]

8 because despite the fact that my first thought of the Narada was that there was no way that was a mining ship, and a stardate error concerning the Jellyfish, I still enjoyed it enough to watch it again.

[Darth Wong]

I like the way the films explains the lack of communications by suggesting that Nero jams them ... but the writers continue to act as if communications are jammed even after Nero flies away.

Like I said above, Spock says subspace radio is broken during his rant against Kirk ("we need engineering crews to patch radiation leaks on the lower decks and repair subspace radio"); it just gets drowned in Kirk shouting over him.

Wouldn't there be any listening posts on asteroids or moons or other planets in the system where people are screaming into their radios "HOLYSHITHOLYSHITHOLYSHITVULCANISGONE"?

[Erik von Nein]

Isn't that what Scotty was on? It was a base on a planet/moon with a great view of Vulcan getting vacu-sucked. I suppose it could be the only one in the area, and Scotty didn't seem very concerned with checking in on things, since it was just him and the midget.

[Gramzamber]

Isn't that what Scotty was on? It was a base on a planet/moon with a great view of Vulcan getting vacu-sucked. I suppose it could be the only one in the area, and Scotty didn't seem very concerned with checking in on things, since it was just him and the midget.

Well that makes little sense either, if this Delta Vega is that close to Vulcan it must be it's moon, and surely there'd be some noticable effect of having the planet it's orbiting completely imploded.

[Adam Reynolds]

Isn't that what Scotty was on? It was a base on a planet/moon with a great view of Vulcan getting vacu-sucked. I suppose it could be the only one in the area, and Scotty didn't seem very concerned with checking in on things, since it was just him and the midget.

Well that makes little sense either, if this Delta Vega is that close to Vulcan it must be it's moon, and surely there'd be some noticable effect of having the planet it's orbiting completely imploded.

It was stated that Spock's viewing of Vulcan was metaphorical, not direct in an interview. Even if we accept this as true it causes another problem. Why would Nero maroon Spock on the planet with no view of the destruction of Vulcan? It would seem to defeat the purpose of marooning him in the first place.

[Simon_Jester]

Perhaps Spock was marooned with a telescope, and the distance from Delta Vega to Vulcan is comparable to, say, the distance between Earth and Mars?