Ryag Han wrote:no one said that. but everybody is complaining about the Qu'nos thing, while TNG had this, and no one says anything.
You know, I did expand on why I found that bit disagreeable. I have yet to see you engage my argument. Here, I quote it for you:
The "Qo'nos is right around the corner" thing is especially unforgivable simply because that raises the question why the Klingons, despite their portrayal as bloodthirsty barbarians with a massive technological edge and an imperialist drive didn't attack Earth as soon as they got to know about it. The episode Twilight showed that the Vulcans wouldn't have lifted a finger to help Earth fend off invaders and a military alliance with other species came only to be about three years after the first contact, plenty of time for them to put the boot on humanity.
You know, that's quite a bit different kind of criticism from "ENT got science wrong", that's a weakness in storytelling. TNG had its own shortcomings in that vein like the first war with the Cardassians that supposedly took place entirely off-screen and unmentioned in seasons 1 or 2 and forced the Federation to cede territory despite a considerable superiority in military technology, but you couldn't even think of something like that, instead getting hung up on a big, hollow metal ball.
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Ryag Han wrote:
then it raises the question: why make it complete solid?
something like this would be more tangible
... Because a solid one is more cool?
lest close this subject then and just remain with your statement here!
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You know, I did expand on why I found that bit disagreeable. I have yet to see you engage my argument. Here, I quote it for you:
The "Qo'nos is right around the corner" thing is especially unforgivable simply because that raises the question why the Klingons, despite their portrayal as bloodthirsty barbarians with a massive technological edge and an imperialist drive didn't attack Earth as soon as they got to know about it. The episode Twilight showed that the Vulcans wouldn't have lifted a finger to help Earth fend off invaders and a military alliance with other species came only to be about three years after the first contact, plenty of time for them to put the boot on humanity.
sure, whatever.
You know, that's quite a bit different kind of criticism from "ENT got science wrong", that's a weakness in storytelling. TNG had its own shortcomings in that vein like the first war with the Cardassians that supposedly took place entirely off-screen and unmentioned in seasons 1 or 2 and forced the Federation to cede territory despite a considerable superiority in military technology, but you couldn't even think of something like that, instead getting hung up on a big, hollow metal ball.
i don't really understand what your saying. so, the Cradasian war happening off-screen shows what now? weakness in storytelling? yeah, so is not taking up a book to read about the subject you are going to do.
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So were you just ignoring his comment then? His point is that if the Klingon's were so close, why did they not invade earth. I mean we were barely defended, why not? That's why that mistake is so bad, whereas the dyson sphere thing is just bad science, not a massive plot hole.
"Seriously though, every time I see something like this I think 'Ooo, I'm living in the future'. Unfortunately it increasingly looks like it's going to be a cyberpunkish dystopia, where the poor eat recycled shit and the rich eat the poor." Evilsoup, on the future
Serafina wrote:It could actually make a difference. While the same amount of radiation is, well, radiated away, it now radiates from a much larger surface. That might change how the Dyson Sphere looks, so that it would look differently from the star on it's own from a distance.
Yup, it'd be redshifted a lot, but even the size of a dyson sphere is still very small compared to the distances between stars, so the brightness over the entire spectrum is still there.
At room temperature - where I'd want my dyson sphere to be - all the energy it radiates is in the farther infrared wavelengths. Nothing visible by our naked eyes, but an infrared telescope would see it very brightly.
It wouldn't look the same, but they totally should have seen something was there before they hit it!
Oh btw, I was pondering a while ago... so you have the light of a star, but redder and bigger.... what if we have detected alien dyson spheres, and just miscategorized them as red giant stars?
Imagine how hilarious that would be. We've been so confident in the Fermi paradox, if they existed, why aren't they here? Why don't we see them? ...and it turns out they've been visible with the naked fucking eye since the beginning of time.
Alas, a dyson sphere would be a lot cooler than a red giant, so it doesn't work. (or would it? whose to say aliens are comfortable in the same temperatures we are? dun dun dunnnnn). The idea tickles me though. Aliens, hiding in plain sight!
temperatures like...5,000 K (4727 C)? well if that's not alien, i don't know what is!
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barnest2 wrote:So were you just ignoring his comment then? His point is that if the Klingon's were so close, why did they not invade earth. I mean we were barely defended, why not? That's why that mistake is so bad, whereas the dyson sphere thing is just bad science, not a massive plot hole.
no, i didn't quite understand what he was saying with the other example, not the Klingon one. with the Klingon one...why would they invade Earth again? in "Broken Bow" they brought a very information of the Suliban back to them. they cured a disease threatening the entire Klingon species. sure their not exactly happy how the do it.
but anyway, they obviously didn't cuz it was to far from their homeworld. i never said Qu'nos is suddenly 2 light years from Earth. remember i said
im tired of all the astronomy nonsense. every other episode star trek had astronomical inaccuracies. the Dyson sphere, the Badlands, "full stop", and worst of the the worst Star Trek V: The Final Frontier where they go to "the galactic core''.
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier leaves you with two options:
number one, they were right and the warp drives was somehow faster in the past...
number two, they were wrong and that wasn't the galactic core. more plausible, and seriously, the guys from TOS had far more experience than Archer, who never went further than a few light years from Earth. not at all incredible that he might have mistaken. they do these kind of mistakes every other episode. see, problem solved. jeez.
Archer simply got overly exited of their first actual mission of exploration and just said a load of crap. big fucking deal, you don't have to take everything literally.
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Small problem-they explicitly give the peak speed of the Akiraprize as 100c.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Thing is, having the Klingons in ENT was completely unnecessary. Errand of Mercy in TOS was when relations between the Federation and Klingon Empire broke down far enough and make war imminent. Fair enough, but then we learn the Klingons were already at Earth's door a century before that and belligerent thugs with an axe to grind with Starfleet to boot as seen by their repeated harassment of the Enterprise. There's no plausible reason whatsoever that they'd ever allow something like the Federation to form right in their backyard and leave it alone for over hundred years. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Especially the little stunt that Phlox, a man in Starfleet emply, played and that resulted in the severe disfigurement of the entire race should have resulted in punitive expeditions even if it saved their asses or right because of it. Can't let someone live who revealed your vulnerability so blatantly after all.
Replacing the Klingons with Andorians or Tellarites and making them indebted to Starfleet in pilot would have avoided that inconsistency and given the Vulcans a legitimate reason to be so anxious of Enterprises first foray into the galaxy at large, given the rivalry they had going on with those races.
Ryag Han wrote:i don't really understand what your saying. so, the Cradasian war happening off-screen shows what now? weakness in storytelling? yeah, so is not taking up a book to read about the subject you are going to do.
If that's already too high for you then frankly you shouldn't be discussing the merits and demerits of fictional storytelling.
People at birth are naturally good. Their natures are similar, but their habits make them different from each other.
-Sanzi Jing (Three Character Classic)
Saddam’s crime was so bad we literally spent decades looking for our dropped monocles before we could harumph up the gumption to address it
-User Indigo Jump on Pharyngula
O God, please don't let me die today, tomorrow would be so much better!
-Traditional Spathi morning prayer
Destructionator XIII wrote:Bah. Fucking hell. One reason why I like to keep hard numbers out of the canon - it's too easy for the author to fuck shit up the ass. (note having them in background material is prolly a good thing. consistent hard sf for the win. just keep it to yourself so your mistakes aren't as obvious!)
Exactly. 'At Warp 9.7, we'll be there in 12 hours'. Doesn't tell us beans so you can't fuck it up because nobody has a clue how fast Warp 9.7 is or how far you're going. Also keeps you out of trouble when at some other time, the same trip takes 2 weeks at Warp 7, because nobody (including the writers) know how the blasted Warp scale works. (Which is where you're background material comes in. Warp 9.7 being much faster than Warp 7 is no biggy. It gets problematic when the same trip suddenly is shorter at Warp 6.5 )
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
The problem was they grabbed the names and nothing else. They tried to tie into the older series' only only to the extent of 'hey, Klingons were popular enemies, let's use them' without giving a single thought to whether or not they'd fit the setting, or how. 'Hey, phasers were cool, we'll use them' when by TNG in Worf's opinion they were 'one of the most revolutionary developments of the last century'. They nabbed pretty much every buzzword from Trek and used it, whether it worked with the prequel setting or not.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
So instead of exploring a new alien, like Andorians or whatever - we've seen them before so it ties into the franchise but don't know them that well anyway - it went with the old Klingons. Yeah, we recognize them easily, but it's not really living up to the premise.
I know an Andorian story did come up with the Vulcans, but maybe they should have started with that rather than with the super familiar Klingons.
yeah, i like the Andorians vs Vulcans subplot. they should have started with that. The Klingons...the only Klingon arc i like was that with Worf's brother. that story was so cool! wish they had made more like it. but otherwise, the Klingons are just there to be the over exited warriors who drop their phasers in favor of swords.
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