Star Trek 09 review thread

[Worlds Spanner]

I do see the point about the gravity well, but impulse power is pretty cheap.

You can't refute an accusation about inefficiency by claiming that they can afford to be inefficient.

I'm not refuting anything, I'm positing that they can do something. Perhaps there was recently a disaster at an orbital construction facility and they need to build some ships on the ground as a stop-gap measure, or perhaps it became politically useful to do so. Sheesh, I even said "I do see the point about the gravity well" to make it obvious that I'm NOT being dismissive. Chill.

So you're suggesting that they use anti-gravity sleds as a form of scaffolding, which must maintain position and rigidity for months at a time, and that this is "easier" than fabricating the ship in space despite the fact that they have extensive space-based facilities and personnel and they have to expend the energy to get that mass into orbit sooner or later anyway?

One problem with your debating style, if I may be so bold as to criticize the webmaster, is that you make assumptions. You added the words "anti-gravity." The "sled" could be nothing more or less than a freaking huge scaffold built to stabilize the ship and withstand escape velocity. Turn the engines on when you're ready to go. If you can reuse the sled for several ships it would be practical. Not *better* than building the ship in space, but within the realm of plausibility.

[Darth Wong]

I'm not refuting anything, I'm positing that they can do something.

You said you saw no reason why it would be "necessarily inefficient" to build it on the ground. Remember?

One problem with your debating style, if I may be so bold as to criticize the webmaster, is that you make assumptions. You added the words "anti-gravity."

How does that make any difference to my point, fucktard? If they use huge scaffolds as you suggest, your denial of the inefficiency of the process is hardly any more justified than it is if they use anti-gravity devices. We're talking about a huge structure; the scaffolds would have to be the size of skyscrapers in their own right, and they would need to be strong enough to support massive weight above and beyond their own mass.

[Stark]

If the ship is ~3000ft long (or yards or whatever) the scaffs would have to be around ~1000 feet tall themselves, and to support the unsteady ship I'd imagine they'd have to be pretty sturdy as well. The shot from the trailer suggests that the slip where she's constructed is a giant, city-like structure.

[Worlds Spanner]

Blah blah blah Trek metallurgy. Something or other flashy sounding here, and LOOK AT THE PRETTY LIGHTS!

I'm not going to argue the point; not only are you right, pretty much everyone agrees that it's transparently built on earth because it looks cool on screen. (And I can assure you that it does.)

And yes, I should have said something like "I don't see why its so inefficient as to be worth arguing over." Because it isn't. How did we get so far off topic anyway?

[Darth Wong]

If the ship is ~3000ft long (or yards or whatever) the scaffs would have to be around ~1000 feet tall themselves, and to support the unsteady ship I'd imagine they'd have to be pretty sturdy as well. The shot from the trailer suggests that the slip where she's constructed is a giant, city-like structure.

And if the design of the ship is changed at all from the previous build, massive construction must take place to reconfigure the facility before you can even start building anything. Oh yeah, that sounds efficient.

The larger an object is, the less sense it makes to build it in 1G. I'm honestly shocked that anyone would not see this as obvious.

[Darth Wong]

And yes, I should have said something like "I don't see why its so inefficient as to be worth arguing over." Because it isn't. How did we get so far off topic anyway?

That would be almost as foolish as your earlier denial. It would be enormously inefficient. All you've done is back off from "I don't see why it's inefficient" to "I don't see why it's very inefficient", with no more justification than you had for your previous position.

[Stofsk]

The only problem I can see with constructing anything in space is the work safety hazards in having dozens (hundreds?) of workers building the Enterprise in EVA conditions for months at a time.

Even that doesn't preclude building projects in outer space, it just means that workers need to be looked after and you have to stop looking at the big shiny ship and start thinking about how it needs to built. If you can build starbases though you can build the Enterprise.

Anyway you shake it it's a dumb idea, but if I had been him I would have said something flippant like "The contractors refused to wear spacesuits!" For one thing, it would have been better than the glib bullshit answer he gave.

EDIT: I was talking about the screenwriter guy by the way.

[Gandalf]

I just got back from seeing it, and it is good.
Spoiler

The story is great. It's pretty much as predicted by the prequel comics and various "sneak peeks". The exploding star, red matter, Nero's wife, etcetera.

They've done a decent job remaking the characters. The stand out performance was Karl Urban's McCoy. He had just the right accent and McCoy's kind hearted nature. The runner up was Spock. They knew to write the character as someone who clearly has feelings, but tries to control them. The conflict goes on throughout the film, which works. Seeing him beat the shit out of Kirk was really quite a fascinating watch. Everyone else has a bit of character, but not much. Scotty's a little annoying, as he's clearly "the funny one".

The treatment of Kirk was better than expected. After Nero winds up accidentally going back in time, he destroys the first ship he sees; the USS Kelvin under Captain Redshirt and First Officer George Kirk. Kirk Sr saves some lives, dying in the process of a big CGI battle. It's portrayed that after the death of Kirk's father, he grows up with less direction than he had OTL. He became a bit of a layabout, until Captain Pike came along and gave him a bit of a speech.

Some of the best stuff wasn't even the plot pertinent things. You see the intensive education of Vulcan children as Vulcan cities themselves. Intricate levels of detail on everything aboard the Enterprise really help the ship feel realistic, and people work there.

In this, the UFP is like a UN with a military. They're explicitly said to be concerned with peacekeeping and humanitarian missions.

As expected, Vulcan has been destroyed. Spock mentions resettlement, but doesn't say where. I just hope it isn't Ceti Alpha V.

In this new continuity, the Klingons seem to have Warbirds as opposed to Birds of Prey.

I'll post more thoughts as they occur to me.

I also think tim31 owes me a drink.

[Bounty]

Spoiler

In this new continuity, the Klingons seem to have Warbirds as opposed to Birds of Prey.

In the KM scenario, those "warbirds" were blatantly D7's with a new lick of paint and a different head.

As for building the ship on the ground, the real justification is that Orci (or someone on the crew) had seen the mock-up of the Enterprise sitting in a shipyard on Earth (I think it's been posted here before even). They thought it made for a cool image for the teaser, throwing people off into thinking it wasn't a spaceship or something, and after that the idea stuck. The justification posted above doesn't address the "why should we do <X>" as much as it addresses "why shouldn't we do <X> if we want to" and frankly, the scene looked believable enough in the detailing not to take me out of the movie.

[Bounty]

Meanwhile, the RT rating holds at 95% positive at 75 reviews counted. I guess my 80+ prediction might hold true after all.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Saw it last night. Really good. The only major criticism I have is the lead villian could've done with a lot more screentime. His motivations and goals were all clearly established, but it still feels like he was hardly in it, to be honest.

Also, one thing I wasn't too clear on: Spoiler

Did Nero's ship end up fighting the assembled Starfleet ships that Spock wanted to rendezvous with, or did he just bypass them? I got the impression the fleet was being assembled in the way of Nero's route to earth in order to try and stop him, but it wasn't ever mentioned again after Kirk took control of the Enterprise.

Would've been nice to see the Nerada (or whatever it was called) steamrolling the fleet.

[Bounty]

Spoiler

Did Nero's ship end up fighting the assembled Starfleet ships that Spock wanted to rendezvous with, or did he just bypass them?

The fleet was still in the Laurentian system, and they couldn't contact them - when Kirk suggests trying to get more speed out of the engines, Spock says all engineering crews are busy plugging leaks and "repairing subspace radio, without which...". I guess the fleet never did find out what happenend until Earth contacted them when it spotted Nero approaching. And with Pike under mind control he could just sail past Earth's other defences.

Having now seen the movie multiple times, I'm still discovering new details* and little homages. And I can't really say there are any scenes that really fail on repeat viewing. It's now easier to see where some of the criticism comes from, but I'll gladly go see it again.

* Spoiler

A "Melvarian" disease. Did they really put in a Futurama nod?

[NecronLord]

I am impressed by the reviews I've seen people give here, so I have bought tickets for it on Saturday.

[Anguirus]

Seeing it tonight.

People who use the term 'Monsterprise' are going on a list, I just want you to know that.

What list am I on? I think I invented it. (And I'm sorry.)

[Uraniun235]

The list of dudes who make up aggravating nicknames? I'm so at the top of that list for coining "Battlestar Livejournal."

[Jon]

Well I just got back from an IMAX screening and I loved it, of course. I'm going again with some other friends on Saturday night and I can't wait for a second viewing. I do think once the dust has settled, and once people start to look past the incredible special effects (which are just stunning on another level, literally from the title card onwards through one of the best opening scenes to grace a Star Trek movie yet- I thought the space scenes were amazing and the Enterprise has never looked better) that it won't be too hard to nitpick and pull open some obvious plot contrivances, some very liberal interpretation of spatial phenomenon (black holes/super nova) and some stunning coincidences. Still, the film was an unexpected roller coaster of emotions, some genuinely funny laugh out loud scenes and some heart wrenching moments played to great dramatic effect. The cast just works, and I was so pleased to see the 'three years later' card on screen which bypassed the 'academy years' and lead into the Kobayashi Maru test.

Overall a really fun and enjoyable film, with some stellar performances from the cast and genuinely heartening moments, would really recommend giving it a whirl- and I'm sure it's going to give us tonnes of stuff to pick over until the next movie.

[FA Xerrik]

Just got back from seeing it. I think it's absolutely fair to say the franchise could be reborn. It's definitely geared towards roping in new people who don't give a hoot about the technobabble and stuff, but had so many great homages to the fans I couldn't be mad. Definitely had a few flaws, but coming out of the theater I couldn't remember a single one.

I think they should contact Steve about using his Star Trek: Timelines continuity for a TNG-era follow-up. It would fit so well with the new tone they've set for the universe.

[Old Plympto]

I saw it last night, and there's nothing I have to say that haven't been said in this thread. I loved it and I was humming both the old Alex Courage theme and the new Giacchino themes on my way home.

[Androsphinx]

Ehhh...

Good action movie, poor sci-fi movie. Shiny and hollow, like a bauble on JJ Abram's Christmas tree.


(It did not look right to see Winona Ryder as Spock's mother. How long ago was she in Heathers?)

[General Zod]

Ehhh...

Good action movie, poor sci-fi movie. Shiny and hollow, like a bauble on JJ Abram's Christmas tree.

Poor sci-fi movie? Explain this.

[Anguirus]

Saw it: impressions below.
Spoiler

I really enjoyed myself, as did all of my (very non-Trekkie) friends. It absolutely succeeds at hooking the "I like Star Wars but Trek is weird" crowd. Which is no surprise...Abrams' love of Star Wars is all over this film, though it's not to the extent where it becomes tiresome.

Most of the storyline was spoiled for me, but I remained newly impressed by the cleverness of it all. My friends were also appreciative of that bit of legerdemain. There was definitely an impact when they killed Vulcan, as even casual fans know THAT'S not supposed to happen! There was a general feeling of "well good, they don't have to write to some particular spot in time now."

The film makes Star Trek feel more epic than, well, it basically ever has. The sequence of Kirk's birth was absolutely riveting. There is a real sense of "this is what is supposed to happen" as Kirk assumes command, somehow enhanced by the fact that it's been driven home that now anything CAN happen.

Most of the characters got more development than they EVER have before. Ben Cross as Sarek was not spectacular but his character was written very well. Both Spocks were fantastic, the younger even overcoming the fact that he ooks like Sylar (and their final scene was OMG great). Kirk...wow, Chris Pine may be going places. He was KIRK, not Shatner, Kirk and he owned the screen whenever he was on. Pike was also statesmanlike and important as mentor to both lead characters. Uhura (or should I say Nyota!) was great and I liked the direction in which her character was taken. The others were a bit more in the background but that's understandable...they all did get a few classic moments and lines.

And most of the humor was very spot-on! Kudos.

Critiques:
-The filmmakers...all of them...FAIL ASTRONOMY FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER. Black holes can blow up in your ship and not kill it instantly, but can kill a planet in a few minutes? I get that its somehow increasing in mass, but given how much smaller the spaceships are they should have been totaled instantly. Black hole + supernova = 0, even though supernova can blast planets all over the galaxy?
-I feel like the worst kind of fanboy for saying this but...c'mon, the Enterprise only gets to unleash its full might at the end of the film? And Nero pwns Starfleet AND the Klingons, but all off-screen?
-And now I'm the second-worst kind of fanboy, but it would ave been nice for them to put an LCARS interface in the Jellyfish. Especially since according to the comics LaForge builds the thing. Just as a throwaway reference.
-What the hell was the "lightning storm in space?" I thought it was because Nero busted out his crazy drill that causes interference but then it should not have occurred in the Kelvin fight. And yet this is a major plot point because Kirk remembers it from what happened to his father. Oops?

Tech stuff:
-I'm forced to agree that as fun as all the references (George Kirk, Pike, Archer) are, it's hard to imagine this being a modification of the "old Trek" timeline, for pretty much all the reasons listed below.
-WHAT THE HELL IS WITH THE TRANSPORTER. Range = infinite. Shields = no problem. Momentum? What momentum? One magic equation can get you from a planet to an FTL starship? I really had a problem with this, as there seemed to be no reason why the Enterprise can beam people into Nero's bridge but can't just start beaming people out into space. And did Nero even have transporters?
-I can confirm Enterprise is the only Conny in the flick and was built in Iowa. The Farragut and another ship that has slipped my mind are both mentioned but are not Connies (they are in the Earth fleet pwned by Nero).
-Interesting that Nero thought Earth defenses would slow him down despite making short work of Vulcan and the Klingons. Possibly a nod to Earth being more militarized and to the fact that no matter how futuristic you are enough megatons can still ruin your day. Or it was just an excuse to have that TWOK rip-off scene with Pike.
-One of Nero's torpedoes may have killed an entire deck. According to McCoy "Deck 6" sustained massive damage and casualties despite Nero's shot hitting the neck of the ship, i.e. not possibly Deck 6. Either a gaffe or some destructive and energetic debris flew out into the saucer.
-This isn't really tech, but I appreciated how Vulcans and Romulans seemed only slightly stronger than humans. I was expected a Terminator moment from Spock and thankfully didn't get it.
-Scott's transporter board couldn't detect life forms in the enemy ship in the immediate area of the beaming. Funny, but sketchy. Especially considering that Kelvin detected lifesigns on the ship earlier.
-Stardates are totally different. Not that they had a real system before, but now they are certainly "Earth year + a decimal point and two digits." Despite this Nero is familiar with the system.

Cute references:
-Too many to list, but all appreciated! Good to know that fucking beagle got murdered by the one and only Montgomery Scott.

[Androsphinx]

Ehhh...

Good action movie, poor sci-fi movie. Shiny and hollow, like a bauble on JJ Abram's Christmas tree.

Poor sci-fi movie? Explain this.

Somewhere along the way, a science fiction movie should use its setting and technology to do more than just look pretty, blow stuff up and set up things for the next movie.

[Count Dooku]

Got back awhile ago. Impressions below.
Spoiler

Did anyone else think the NAILED McCoy? His little grump on the shuttle (first time you see him) was awesome.

Overall, I really enjoyed the movie, which was something I was afraid wasn't going to happen. I thought the end was really lacking though. A ship to ship battle where Kirk displays some impressive skill and where Spock get's Pike out just in time would have been a bit more interesting to me, but that's very subjective.

[Stuart Mackey]

I have seen this movie and have submitted my comments in the Spoiler hidden below.
Spoiler

What the hell did they do to Enterprise? the nacelles are wrong and so is the main hull, why do that?. The bridge was odd after seeing the TOS bridge so may times, but is livable, I suppose we don't have to put up with the limited possibilities of TOS effects forever.The captains chair was a nice touch.

I didn't think they needed to change the time line to reboot the series, it really wasn't necessary, and if anything that is the main letdown in this movie for me, its almost like they did it for the hell of it when they could have just used the original timeline and simply done it better.

Pegg ,as Scott, was not a good choice, he does not do it well. the other talent was quite good overall however

[Androsphinx]

If we're doing spoilers Spoiler

I didn't appreciate the voice-over at the end, with the motto of the Original Series. We didn't see any strange news worlds, seek out new life or new civilisations.