Yesterday's Enterpise: Why were the Klingons winning?

[Alyeska]

No more one liners against JasonB. His being an idiot does not excuse you from the rules. Got that everyone?

[StarSword]

@Batman: That was epic.

I'm going to try to decipher this latest piece of JasonB gibberish. (I must be a masochist.)

Klingon were warrior race should been another reason they should be losing .

Just being a warrior race is not a valid reason for losing, outside of the "peace-loving people rises up and kicks warrior people's ass" trope. "Good guys always win" is not a good reason in-universe.

Let face we see case TOS and DS9 that klingon take alive POW.

I'm confused. Are you saying that Klingons take prisoners, or allow themselves to be taken as prisoners?

Hardly Japanese that normal save their lest bullet for themselves or Spartans that never surrender no matter what nor retreat.

If in the previous line you were talking about the Klingons taking prisoners, this is a total non sequitur. It seems you were trying to mention Danny's and my argument earlier, but totally screwballed it. As usual.

If you meant allowing themselves to be taken prisoner, it seems we have some psychological differences among Klingons. We've got Klingons that will fight to the death, and we've got Klingons that will allow themselves to be taken prisoner.

We see klingon do stupid surprise attack on UFP starship much more likely get own crew killed then likely to be successful in TOS and in Yesterday Enterprise timeline and in DS9. Across DS9 warrior culture cost them victory when came to Klingon over power DS9 during Way of the warrior. Those Klingon boarding parties would have been successful on DS9 if they had their disrupters readily fire rather then have blade weapons in hands ready used.

Finally, something that makes reasonable sense. Unfortunately, it's also something that's completely obvious: any group that used some measure of intelligence in their infantry tactics (for instance, that didn't bring knives to a gunfight) would've taken DS9 without problems. (Hell, the National Guard would've taken the station, not that they'd know what to do with it afterwards.)

Also, you have no proof that it was the Klingon "warrior culture" that made them ignore their disruptors in favor of swords. Incompetence is also a possible explanation.


Couldn't translate the rest of it...


I agree with Darth Tedious. Every time JasonB says something idiotic (for instance, whenever his mouth is open), we should repeat this refrain: "English and evidence or STFU."

[JasonB]

@Batman: That was epic.

I'm going to try to decipher this latest piece of JasonB gibberish. (I must be a masochist.)

Klingon were warrior race should been another reason they should be losing .

Just being a warrior race is not a valid reason for losing, outside of the "peace-loving people rises up and kicks warrior people's ass" trope. "Good guys always win" is not a good reason in-universe.

Let face we see case TOS and DS9 that klingon take alive POW.

I'm confused. Are you saying that Klingons take prisoners, or allow themselves to be taken as prisoners?

Hardly Japanese that normal save their lest bullet for themselves or Spartans that never surrender no matter what nor retreat.

If in the previous line you were talking about the Klingons taking prisoners, this is a total non sequitur. It seems you were trying to mention Danny's and my argument earlier, but totally screwballed it. As usual.

If you meant allowing themselves to be taken prisoner, it seems we have some psychological differences among Klingons. We've got Klingons that will fight to the death, and we've got Klingons that will allow themselves to be taken prisoner.

We see klingon do stupid surprise attack on UFP starship much more likely get own crew killed then likely to be successful in TOS and in Yesterday Enterprise timeline and in DS9. Across DS9 warrior culture cost them victory when came to Klingon over power DS9 during Way of the warrior. Those Klingon boarding parties would have been successful on DS9 if they had their disrupters readily fire rather then have blade weapons in hands ready used.

Finally, something that makes reasonable sense. Unfortunately, it's also something that's completely obvious: any group that used some measure of intelligence in their infantry tactics (for instance, that didn't bring knives to a gunfight) would've taken DS9 without problems. (Hell, the National Guard would've taken the station, not that they'd know what to do with it afterwards.)

Also, you have no proof that it was the Klingon "warrior culture" that made them ignore their disruptors in favor of swords. Incompetence is also a possible explanation.


Couldn't translate the rest of it...


I agree with Darth Tedious. Every time JasonB says something idiotic (for instance, whenever his mouth is open), we should repeat this refrain: "English and evidence or STFU."

Will Search for Spock the BOP try ambush USS Enterprise it only because shield not working that the BOP able to disable USS Enterprise. In Star Trek Yesterday Enterprise the BOP ambushed USS Enterprise C. If USS Enterprise C been upgrade. USS Enterprise D and USS Enterprise C would turn that BOP space dust.Klingon warriors like fight uphill battle that needless endanger ship and crew just to make legend out of themselves.

[Ahriman238]

Will Search for Spock the BOP try ambush USS Enterprise it only because shield not working that the BOP able to disable USS Enterprise. In Star Trek Yesterday Enterprise the BOP ambushed USS Enterprise C. If USS Enterprise C been upgrade. USS Enterprise D and USS Enterprise C would turn that BOP space dust.Klingon warriors like fight uphill battle that needless endanger ship and crew just to make legend out of themselves.

Actually, the Klingons would have successfully ambushed and captured the Enterprise, except that Kirk could recognize their presence. Then the Enterprise was able to fire first, sort of a reverse ambush, then Scotty's automation that allowed five people to run a ship normally crewed by 300 overloaded, the Klingons returned fire and the Enterprise was disabled.

You assume the Federation advanced technologically, while the Klingon BoP is identical in abilitites to the TOS-era ships. I would very much like to know the basis of this assumption, since the Klingon ships are not anihilated in every battle as you'd expect, were they using century-old technology.

[Darth Tedious]

I agree with Darth Tedious. Every time JasonB says something idiotic (for instance, whenever his mouth is open), we should repeat this refrain: "English and evidence or STFU."

It's not the English I take offense to, it's the horrendous logical train wrecks that he presents as arguments. The hideous English almost covers how bad they actually are.

@JasonB: Since I asked if you could back your assertion, you haven't mentioned the Borg again. Is this a concession on your part that they weren't necessarily involved?

[JasonB]

I agree with Darth Tedious. Every time JasonB says something idiotic (for instance, whenever his mouth is open), we should repeat this refrain: "English and evidence or STFU."

It's not the English I take offense to, it's the horrendous logical train wrecks that he presents as arguments. The hideous English almost covers how bad they actually are.

@JasonB: Since I asked if you could back your assertion, you haven't mentioned the Borg again. Is this a concession on your part that they weren't necessarily involved?

I still think they are the must likely reason why the UFP would be losing a war to the Klingon Empire. However there are more unlikely possible reasons the Klingon Empire could have been winning.

[Metahive]

So, the Borg assimilate one ship at most and that somehow cripples Starfleet to the point of losing against an industrially and economically far inferior enemy in a long drawn out war? That's like saying Spain abducting the USS Dewey in WW2 would have handed total victory to imperial Japan.

[Enigma]

So, the Borg assimilate one ship at most and that somehow cripples Starfleet to the point of losing against an industrially and economically far inferior enemy in a long drawn out war? That's like saying Spain abducting the USS Dewey in WW2 would have handed total victory to imperial Japan.

He won't understand a word you are saying. He's too stupid. This is Jason, he does not concede a single point nor does he change his mind over anything.

[Alyeska]

Ignore JasonB posts. Just discuss the thread without him.

[Enigma]

Ignore JasonB posts. Just discuss the thread without him.

Except it has been discussed while Jason keeps fucking the dead horse. It should be locked.

[Alyeska]

Ignore JasonB posts. Just discuss the thread without him.

Except it has been discussed while Jason keeps fucking the dead horse. It should be locked.

No arguments. If the thread can sustain itself without JasonB, it will. Pretend he doesn't exist and ignore everything he posts.