Why the hell are the Gorn never used?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-16 01:19pm

Captain Kruger wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote: The Understanding in the old wargames was that the Gorn Ships are eggs with Sledgehammers. They make up for their low speed and manuverabilty by having a first shot that can kill just about ANYTHING in Trek. This would explain their slow speeds too.
If we're going by non-canon (as in Starfleet Battles) the Gorns use an even stronger arsenal of the Romulan-style plasma torpedoes shown in TOS. Ouch.

IMO, the return of the Gorns would need to be done with CGI creatures. There's just no way those suits couldn't look hokey, even with today's makeup standards.

Not necessarily. Look at Farscape. You can do a lot of stuff with puppets. CGI doesn't have to be used for everything.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-01-16 07:45pm

Certainly there can be good animatronic/make-up/puppet effects just as there can be bad. The same thing applies for CGI effects too, espeically if they are being used for a "living" thing.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-01-16 08:25pm

neoolong wrote:Not necessarily. Look at Farscape. You can do a lot of stuff with puppets. CGI doesn't have to be used for everything.

You have a point, but it's not necessarily on-target. A Gorn would have to look more like Dargo or Zan, who are both actors in makeup, than Rygel or Pilot, who are animatronics.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-01-16 08:27pm

IG-88E wrote:
neoolong wrote:Not necessarily. Look at Farscape. You can do a lot of stuff with puppets. CGI doesn't have to be used for everything.
You have a point, but it's not necessarily on-target. A Gorn would have to look more like Dargo or Zan, who are both actors in makeup, than Rygel or Pilot, who are animatronics.

Also, hopefully they'd look a little bit better than the Scarens. Although they are pretty cool their facial structure is a little too rigid to give a "real" living being feel to it.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-01-16 09:29pm

No! I want my slow, lumbering reptilian monsters, damnit!

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-01-16 09:32pm

Above was response to making the gorn all fast and such....should have qouted.

Anyways...if they are re-done, they will be men in suits with a complex head for facial features.

CGI TV standards are lower than TV Makeup Effects standards.

But the head needs to be completely anamatronic in construction, only way it would really work, I think.

So, basically, do what they do in the new Godzilla movies.

MAN IN SUIT! MAN IN SUIT!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-16 10:16pm

IG-88E wrote:
neoolong wrote:Not necessarily. Look at Farscape. You can do a lot of stuff with puppets. CGI doesn't have to be used for everything.
You have a point, but it's not necessarily on-target. A Gorn would have to look more like Dargo or Zan, who are both actors in makeup, than Rygel or Pilot, who are animatronics.

I guess animatronics is a better word. The whole thing wouldn't be a puppet, but it could utilize a lot of the same technology. Like a suit and a partially animatronic head.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-01-17 04:13am

Captain Kruger wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote: The Understanding in the old wargames was that the Gorn Ships are eggs with Sledgehammers. They make up for their low speed and manuverabilty by having a first shot that can kill just about ANYTHING in Trek. This would explain their slow speeds too.
If we're going by non-canon (as in Starfleet Battles) the Gorns use an even stronger arsenal of the Romulan-style plasma torpedoes shown in TOS. Ouch.

IMO, the return of the Gorns would need to be done with CGI creatures. There's just no way those suits couldn't look hokey, even with today's makeup standards.

In the ST RPG of old, their weapons were Plasma Beams, called blasters that did signifigantly more damage then Photorps. (Just took a lot of power to charge them up)
In SFB they had massive array of Romulon Style Plasma weapons,.

In arena: we know they
1. Sterilized a Federation Colony World (Not even plant life & structures)
2. The Enterpirse could not survive conflict with the Gorn vessel, the Gorn Vessel could not survive Conflict with the Enterprise.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-17 11:19am

If the Gorn no longer are used, the reason might be that the writers are afraid of wrecking an interesting alien species by making it a caricature of itself, like they did with the Borg and the Ferengi.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-01-17 11:54am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:If the Gorn no longer are used, the reason might be that the writers are afraid of wrecking an interesting alien species by making it a caricature of itself, like they did with the Borg and the Ferengi.

No they wouldn't, they'd try to go three for three.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-01-19 09:19pm

Weren't we supposed to see a Gorn TNG ship once?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-01-20 12:48am

Let's not forget that they (Enterprise) fucked up the Nausicans as well. The TNG Nausicans were stupid ("human play damjot") but they had some size to them. Remember, these were the dudes that were responsible for knifing Picard through the heart.

On Boobyprise, not only can they speak coherently but they also seem to have shrunk.

Aliens B & B have screwed up:

1. The BORG
2. The Andorians
3. The Ferengi
4. The Nausicans
5. The Q
6. The Vulcans

My point is this: If the Gorn are used, rest assured that B & B will fuck them up. I hope we don't see them. They're not going to be done right anyway.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-01-20 01:49am

Superman wrote:My point is this: If the Gorn are used, rest assured that B & B will fuck them up. I hope we don't see them. They're not going to be done right anyway.

Agreed. Just look at the pathetic blond Andorians.

Alnilam · Post by **Alnilam** » 2003-01-20 05:15am

I'm sure producers would give them a Velociraptor/T-Rex-like look.I wonder how would look their ships...

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-01-20 05:34am

Time to poke the newbie!

*poke*

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-01-20 10:28am

Yes, anything 1990s sucks.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-28 01:22pm

IG-88E wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:If the Gorn no longer are used, the reason might be that the writers are afraid of wrecking an interesting alien species by making it a caricature of itself, like they did with the Borg and the Ferengi.
No they wouldn't, they'd try to go three for three.

What do you mean with "three for three"??

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-01-28 01:37pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
IG-88E wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:If the Gorn no longer are used, the reason might be that the writers are afraid of wrecking an interesting alien species by making it a caricature of itself, like they did with the Borg and the Ferengi.
No they wouldn't, they'd try to go three for three.
What do you mean with "three for three"??

Yeah. Don't forget the Klingons. The Gorn would be four for four.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-01-29 04:27pm

The Hirogen on Voyager from the first couple of episodes shrunked from being like a foot taller than a human to being the same size. That was stupid, but it wouldn't be the first time they started out the alien as good but then pussified it for no real reason.

HappyTarget · Post by **HappyTarget** » 2003-01-29 09:35pm

If they bring back the Gorn they will be different than in the original series and will move faster.

I would go for that if they moved more like crocs do. Have em usually be slow and plodding but capable of extreme bursts of speed/action for short time periods.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-01-30 02:48am

They should basically leave them like they already were. This is established cannon here. Of course, B &B are going to screw this up.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2003-02-02 09:42pm

The make-up for the Gorn would be too expensive

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-02 11:26pm

Fucking Westmore is just gonna come up with some make-up that's something like a green Cardasian with new forehead ridges.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-02-03 07:25am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Fucking Westmore is just gonna come up with some make-up that's something like a green Cardasian with new forehead ridges.

What, no bug (multi-faceted) eyes?

I don't see why they couldn't make them look somewhat like they did in TOS with improved make-up/animatronics. Those dino-aliens on Voyager weren't all that bad looking so a little time and effort should make at least a decent cameo of a Gorn possible.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Why the hell are the Gorn never used?

I'd like to see again the Gorn