Star Trek, five months later

[Gandalf]

I saw it eight times at the cinema.

The more I think about it, I think I've given it a 7.5. It had lots of fun little things, but was let down by the overall plot.

[Gasphemer]

Kirk, where the hell did your awesome go?

That is all.

[Anguirus]

I expects the Star Trek movie to be something that I could call an epic movie, but in then, the lack of urgency and real danger makes it seems like just another Star Trek episode of the week.

Dude, THEY BLEW UP VULCAN.

Even if this is the case, I didn't feel any excitement or any sense of tensions when they are trying to blow up Vulcan and Earth.

Sorry?

Frankly, almost no Star Trek story has had as much at stake as this movie, with the rare exceptions of some kind of epic time paradox plot.

Did you grow up with Kirk and Spock, or with any of the Star Trek shows? That might explain the difference here. It was a hell of a lot more effective IMO than the destruction of Alderaan in Star Wars.

[ray245]

Sorry?

Frankly, almost no Star Trek story has had as much at stake as this movie, with the rare exceptions of some kind of epic time paradox plot.

Did you grow up with Kirk and Spock, or with any of the Star Trek shows? That might explain the difference here. It was a hell of a lot more effective IMO than the destruction of Alderaan in Star Wars.

The general mood of the movie is so bright that I could not feel like there is anything at stake. It really feels like this is not the first time the people in the Star Trek universe has experienced the destruction of an entire planet by a man-made weapon.

[Prannon]

The general mood of the movie is so bright that I could not feel like there is anything at stake. It really feels like this is not the first time the people in the Star Trek universe has experienced the destruction of an entire planet by a man-made weapon.

Ray does have a point. Looking back at the film (I should say that I haven't seen it since it came out) it doesn't really provide the feeling of impending doom that the Narada should have created. It felt more like the imminent activation of the Array thingie from Insurrection that would have doomed all of 600 people on an isolated planet. That, and it was clearly obvious that the good guys would win, and not by any particularly subtle plan. Guns blazing rargh ACTION!! win.

Perhaps I should see it again though.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

6. I liked this movie, but it was far from perfect. Most everything I didn't like has already been mentioned, though, so I'll point out something that I liked, but thought was kind of odd.

McCoy reminded me very strongly of Hunter S. Tompson, at least as portrayed in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Where the Buffalo Roam. I think it was the way he muttered, and injected Kirk with various things without asking permission or explaining what they were.

[Stofsk]

The general mood of the movie is so bright that I could not feel like there is anything at stake. It really feels like this is not the first time the people in the Star Trek universe has experienced the destruction of an entire planet by a man-made weapon.

What? Star Trek has traditionally had planet killers lay waste to entire solar systems and the response has been momentary shock followed by steely resolve in characters like Kirk and Spock. Trek has always been a bright and optimistic look at the future. I for one felt that the destruction of Vulcan was pulled off quite well.

[Dark Hellion]

Am I the only one who liked the villain? I liked how he was this spittle flinging, revenge crazed man. Perhaps I didn't watch carefully enough, but it never seemed like the movie made him out to be any kind of specifically accomplished plotter. He makes numerous impulsive and stupid actions because he is impulsive and rather crazy. He felt like he actually had passion, which I never really felt like a ST villain since Kahn had.

Anywho, I really enjoyed the movie and I think it held up well over multiple viewing so I give it a 7.

[Lusankya]

Am I the only one who liked the villain? I liked how he was this spittle flinging, revenge crazed man. Perhaps I didn't watch carefully enough, but it never seemed like the movie made him out to be any kind of specifically accomplished plotter. He makes numerous impulsive and stupid actions because he is impulsive and rather crazy. He felt like he actually had passion, which I never really felt like a ST villain since Kahn had.

I liked him. Romulans are sexy, and he had a giant tentacle ship! And he obviously had it in him to be a devoted husband and father. What more could a girl want?

[Crazedwraith]

I liked him. Romulans are sexy, and he had a giant tentacle ship! And he obviously had it in him to be a devoted husband and father. What more could a girl want?

A husband that doesn't let you stay on a planet he knows is about to hit by supernova mayhaps?


Really, I haven't really done much deep contemplation of nST over the last five months, so my opinion hasn't actually changed that much at all. It was pretty enjoyable to watch I found but in a brainless action movie sort of way. The film is heavy into fridge logic so when you look back and think about it the whole plot just falls to pieces. So its movie made of copper; bright and shing, but not worth very much in the end.

[Lusankya]

I liked him. Romulans are sexy, and he had a giant tentacle ship! And he obviously had it in him to be a devoted husband and father. What more could a girl want?

A husband that doesn't let you stay on a planet he knows is about to hit by supernova mayhaps?

I like to pretend that she had her mobile phone on silent the entire time, and just didn't get his messages.

[Ghost Rider]

It was a okay Trek movie, but I had problems that it was a "HIP COOL REIMAGE!" of the primaries in ways to try to make them more cardboard. I know it's the initial outing but it is as if they saw a couple old shows, read the internet, and came up with Kirk = douche but steely, Spock = douche but logical, and McCoy = the friend, and a few others became random pointers.

Overall, I enjoyed the new look on some parts, the story was enough for me to enjoy but not remember, and the ending made me groan regardless because it was hamfisted to insure the second would be just like the show.

[erik_t]

I found the new Kirk/Spock/McCoy to be far less cardboard than in TOS, although perhaps more so than the ST 1-6. Of course, their rapport in those movies took many years to develop both in-universe and with the viewers and could not be expected to be reproduced in the span of two hours.

[Simon_Jester]

I gave it a 7. I think it was pretty good, but not "very" good, because I reserve that honor for works that are either more tightly plotted or that introduce an awesome concept rather than merely revisiting it.

However. The one thing that sticks in my craw, as shallow as a complaint as this may be compared to any of the other issues raised now and previously, is that of the design of the Narada. I'm sorry, but it is an absurd ship. What is the purpose of the many spikes and pointy protrusions?

Hmm... best guess is that when they actually do mining they stow massive amounts of cargo between the protrusions, where they're easy to get at and they don't have to move everything in and out through a hatch (or massive transporter array).

Why is a mere "mining vessel" so heavily armed?

It's a friggin' Romulan mining ship. The Romulans are about as likely to build an unarmed warp-capable ship as they are to become a hippy commune.

For that matter, it's not clear that the ship is heavily armed, only that it can overwhelm ships built using technology that was ~100 years out of date at the time it was built. It might be the equivalent of a big dump truck with a .50 caliber machine gun and a bunch of steel plate welded to the sides... hardly an impressive weapon by modern standards, but it could blast the crap out of a bunch of 19th century foot soldiers marching around in long straight lines with bright uniforms.
_________

Kirk, where the hell did your awesome go?

That is all.

Yeah, that was an issue. You'd see little flashes of what could be awesome, but there was so much "I am self-consciously a bad boy" in the way that it was impossible to tell. Of course, Kirk may have been a complete prick when he was 25 in the original-series setting too; I'm not sure there'd be any way to tell. The Kirk we see could conceivably grow up into awesome Kirk... but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Morilore]

I look back fondly on the opening scene, Spock growing up, some of the character depictions, the pew-pews and boom-booms. On the other hand, the plot was retarded, everything about the villain was bland and cookie-cutter, and everything related to James T. Kirk past the first act is disgusting. A decent popcorn flick, nothing more. Certainly I don't think this it was the start of a bold new era for Trek or anything like that.

[Batman]

Why is a mere "mining vessel" so heavily armed?

It's a friggin' Romulan mining ship. The Romulans are about as likely to build an unarmed warp-capable ship as they are to become a hippy commune.
For that matter, it's not clear that the ship is heavily armed, only that it can overwhelm ships built using technology that was ~100 years out of date at the time it was built.

Um yes it is. That alleged mining vessels apparently massively outgunned an entire SQUADRON of warships. Yes, those were warships built with technology a century older, but they WERE warships and there WERE several of them. They still got toasted.

It might be the equivalent of a big dump truck with a .50 caliber machine gun and a bunch of steel plate welded to the sides... hardly an impressive weapon by modern standards, but it could blast the crap out of a bunch of 19th century foot soldiers marching around in long straight lines with bright uniforms.

Um-No. More like a modern day container ship blowing the living Valen out of a couple of WW2 heavy cruisers which, how shall I put it, isn't particularly likely?

[Havok]

7 for me, better than just 'decent, but flawed' but not quite 'very good'. It was entertaining as all hell, but there were too many moments where I was all "What the fuck? How can a black hole threaten the galaxy" etc., and bad science usually doesn't bug me.

[Stark]

Um-No. More like a modern day container ship blowing the living Valen out of a couple of WW2 heavy cruisers which, how shall I put it, isn't particularly likely?

Depends entirely on what historical period you randomly choose, doesn't it? 100 years from, say, 1799 to 1899 would have exactly the result shown in the movie. Oops.

[Batman]

Um-No. More like a modern day container ship blowing the living Valen out of a couple of WW2 heavy cruisers which, how shall I put it, isn't particularly likely?

Depends entirely on what historical period you randomly choose, doesn't it? 100 years from, say, 1799 to 1899 would have exactly the result shown in the movie. Oops.

Err no it wouldn't? That mining vessel with 1899/1999 technology went through 1799/1899 warships like they WEREN'T THERE. The term 'No' comes to mind.

[Stark]

LOL

So ... since Narada pounded Kelvin for ages and couldn't stop being rammed, I'm not seeing how this highlights Narada's awesome weapons power? In some periods civilian ships and merchant ships were only differentiated by size of armament, and we have no idea how the Starfleet ships were destroyed in 25s when Narada never again demonstrates that power or range.

[Batman]

LOL So ... since Narada pounded Kelvin for ages

Which never actually happened,

and couldn't stop being rammed, I'm not seeing how this highlights Narada's awesome
weapons power?

That'd be the part where it ate the fleet Starfleet sent to deal with it when it attacked Vulcan?

[Stark]

Fuck you're a stupid cunt. Just pull your regular trick and slink away after realising you can't score easy points.

Narada took AGES (like more than ten minutes) to -not- destroy Kelvin, and was unable to stop Kelvin slowly ramming her. Sorry, that happened, and while there are mitigating circumstances (like Narada's readiness after the time travel) you can't just say LOL NEVER HAPPENED like a stupid cunt.

And since you have NO FUCKING IDEA how Narada killed the Starfleet ships, LIKE I JUST FUCKING SAID AND YOU SNIPPED AROUND BECAUSE YOU'RE A STUPID CUNT, you can just fuck off. The Narada is NEVER shown demonstrating the kind of firepower that this would require; when Nero screams 'fire everything' the number of torpedoes is only slightly larger than the number that DIDN'T kill Kelvin and they travelled hilariously slowly, which doesn't help Narada kill a fleet miles away.

Oops.

I love how you've totally dropped your 'omg civilian ships don't have guns to kill' now that I pointed out that yeah, actually, at certain periods they were armed. As pointed out, the Romulans are the kind of guys who may indeed have armed their giant mining ship of unprecedented size.

[Batman]

Fuck you're a stupid cunt. Just pull your regular trick and slink away after realising you can't score easy points.
Narada took AGES (like more than ten minutes) to -not- destroy Kelvin, and was unable to stop Kelvin slowly ramming her. Sorry, that happened,

No it didn't. Have you actually WATCHED nuTrek?

And since you have NO FUCKING IDEA how Narada killed the Starfleet ships, LIKE I JUST FUCKING SAID AND YOU SNIPPED AROUND BECAUSE YOU'RE A STUPID CUNT, you can just fuck off.

You're right I have no clue how they did it. Doesn't change the fact that they DID. Which means a mining vessel a mere century ahead of current Star Trek now can for all practical purposes IGNORE a flotilla of Starfleet warships.You know, like when E-Nil arrives at Vulcan and all that's left of the rest of the flotilla that preceded her is wreckage?

[Stark]

Are you seriously saying Narada did NOT spend some time shooting at Kelvin without destroying her and eventually get rammed by the crippled ship because it obviuosly can't destroy a ship of that size fast enough? Seriously? Honest? The damage done was nowhere near on the scale shown on the wrecked fleet later, being more 'black marks' than 'omg half the saucer is gone'.

Rationalise your 'lol narada did it' argument with the facts. What weapons does she have that can cover that ground fast enough? Is her rate of fire high enough to engage that many targets? Can she deliver that level of 'blown to shit' firepower?

Or maybe she just fired the planet-drilling laser at them, lol.

This all proves you're totally right and civilian ships - even armed ones - cannot kill warships from a more primitive culture. SOMEHOW, right? It's not like the stupid comics showed Nero stealing weapons or ST has ever had massive power disparities over time, right? You're a fucking idiot, obsessed over the 'omg mining ship' trivia and just desperately trying to be edgy and cool by insisting it's impossible when it clearly isn't. Your random 'I picked two dates and two kinds of ships thus I made a point' shit is just offensively stupid. If I took a modern container ship, GLUED HARPOONS EVERYWHERE and went back to take on predreadnoughts, I guess I'd just die somehow? LOL

Go on, claim we've never seen Narada fight at full effectiveness, even when it fired all it's weapons in an alpha strike in a critical situation. Look as dumb as you can.

[Simon_Jester]

It's a friggin' Romulan mining ship. The Romulans are about as likely to build an unarmed warp-capable ship as they are to become a hippy commune.
For that matter, it's not clear that the ship is heavily armed, only that it can overwhelm ships built using technology that was ~100 years out of date at the time it was built.

Um yes it is. That alleged mining vessels apparently massively outgunned an entire SQUADRON of warships. Yes, those were warships built with technology a century older, but they WERE warships and there WERE several of them. They still got toasted.

In some eras that would make sense in Earth's real history; a World War I armed merchantman could do devastating damage to a squadron of Napoleonic warships without ever giving the men-of-war a chance to reply effectively. And the armed merchantman would be by no means "heavily armed" by the standards of its era, even if it was using unstoppable God weapons (like 3-4 inch guns firing exploding shell at a range of several miles) by the standards of the guys on the receiving end.

It might be the equivalent of a big dump truck with a .50 caliber machine gun and a bunch of steel plate welded to the sides... hardly an impressive weapon by modern standards, but it could blast the crap out of a bunch of 19th century foot soldiers marching around in long straight lines with bright uniforms.

Um-No. More like a modern day container ship blowing the living Valen out of a couple of WW2 heavy cruisers which, how shall I put it, isn't particularly likely?

Maybe. No way to be sure without knowing the actual weapon capabilities.

If things like weapon power, ECM, and shielding improve exponentially or geometrically in Star Trek, a ship that gets warped back in time 100 years is going to be ridiculously overpowered (just as a World War-era ship would be in the Age of Sail). If they improve only slowly and incrementally, not so much. There's no way I can think of to prove which of those technological models ought to apply in this case.