How would Yesterday Enterpise UFP done Domimon war

[Enigma]

I was going by memory so thanks for the correction. Nevertheless, the YE UFP would still be violently ripped to shreds if they ended up in a war with the Dominion. Yes, blowing up the wormhole would be the only solution for the YE UFP to survive.

[Stofsk]

I completely agree with you there.

[JasonB]

You forget the UFP most likely mine that side worn-hole with same mines UFP used during call arms. Since UFP much more military readily Dominion comes to technology. Let face UFP fighting 20 years war the UFP would have self replication mines before they even had first contact with Dominion. Turn wormhole one way street were UFP go thought it but the Dominion could not. Since mine most likely tell different between UFP starship and Dominion starship.

By way UFP get Galaxy starship operation in normal timeline somewere between at must somewere between 1 and 4 years.

[Enigma]

You forget the UFP most likely mine that side worn-hole with same mines UFP used during call arms. Since UFP much more military readily Dominion comes to technology. Let face UFP fighting 20 years war the UFP would have self replication mines before they even had first contact with Dominion. Turn wormhole one way street were UFP go thought it but the Dominion could not. Since mine most likely tell different between UFP starship and Dominion starship.

By way UFP get Galaxy starship operation in normal timeline somewere between at must somewere between 1 and 4 years.

You are still not helping your case dipshit.

[JasonB]

How long take UFP rebuild is debatable just too many unknowns. Fact UFP had only 4 fleet and they had something like 11 fleet during Dominion war. To make simple UFP would likely have 500 starship available fights the Klingon Empire just before USS Enterprise C return to her normal timeline. However I am not in count starship under repairs or carry top secret missions. How long take UFP rebuild pre war levels is guess work. Form what we know USS Enterprise D form Yesterday Enterprise timeline commission at least 1 year before the USS Enterprise normal timeline was commission. UFP able to build prototype Galaxy class starship build sometime before USS Enterprise D build. Suggestion Galaxy class battleship take less time to build normal Galaxy class battleship about year less. Across fact UFP has at least one other Galaxy class battleship serving during the time USS Enterprise D was serving. Across Federation rushing starship into service as fast they can get shipyard. One shipyard in Yesterday Enterprise UFP builds starship lot quicker then UFP able during Dominion war. Because learn lesson on how get job done lot quicker. Fact UFP fighting 20 year war mean the UFP also have learn build starship and shipyard lot faster. If UFP pre war state size fleet operation and running guess work

[Kamakazie Sith]

How long take UFP rebuild is debatable just too many unknowns. Fact UFP had only 4 fleet and they had something like 11 fleet during Dominion war.

Fact huh? Based off of what dialogue? Citation please.

To make simple UFP would likely have 500 starship available fights the Klingon Empire just before USS Enterprise C return to her normal timeline. However I am not in count starship under repairs or carry top secret missions. How long take UFP rebuild pre war levels is guess work.

Sounds like utter speculation to me.

Form what we know USS Enterprise D form Yesterday Enterprise timeline commission at least 1 year before the USS Enterprise normal timeline was commission. UFP able to build prototype Galaxy class starship build sometime before USS Enterprise D build. Suggestion Galaxy class battleship take less time to build normal Galaxy class battleship about year less.

Based off of what information?

Across fact UFP has at least one other Galaxy class battleship serving during the time USS Enterprise D was serving. Across Federation rushing starship into service as fast they can get shipyard. One shipyard in Yesterday Enterprise UFP builds starship lot quicker then UFP able during Dominion war. Because learn lesson on how get job done lot quicker. Fact UFP fighting 20 year war mean the UFP also have learn build starship and shipyard lot faster. If UFP pre war state size fleet operation and running guess work

Again you will need to provide your source of this information. I'm pretty sure that shipyard capabilities were not discussed at all during the episode "Yesterdays Enterprise".

[NecronLord]

Thread moved to PST.

[Havok]

The Dominion would curbstomp YE's Federation, with or without the pre-existing condition of being curbstomped by the Klingons.

The Federation NEEDED the Romulans AND Klingons to unite to fight back against the Dominion.

Good point, and this is really all that needs to be said.

The Dominion is a quadrant encompassing power, while the Federation hold power only over, what, a quarter of their own quadrant.

That and just the overall aggressiveness of the Dominion, would push the Federation aside, on it's own fairly trivially.

[Solauren]

Combine that with the YE Enterprise/UFP not having the tech that was developed to fight / from encounters /research with the Borg, and they are at an even worse disadvantage.

[Enigma]

Guys, we already know that the YE UFP will lose horribly to the Dominion for various reasons.

Do not bother to argue with JasonB. His WoI is one of the worst that I've encountered. HE....WILL.....NOT.....BACK....DOWN. Even if you pound his head with a ton of evidence, he will not change his mind. None whatsoever. He's oblivious to reason. He's the one who I made the quote to in my sig. His intellect is literally that of a Pakled.

[JasonB]

How long take UFP rebuild is debatable just too many unknowns. Fact UFP had only 4 fleet and they had something like 11 fleet during Dominion war.

Here my evidence UFP had four fleet worth. See UFP syblows on the map and see Klingon fleet syblows on the map
Fact huh? Based off of what dialogue? Citation please.

To make simple UFP would likely have 500 starship available fights the Klingon Empire just before USS Enterprise C return to her normal timeline. However I am not in count starship under repairs or carry top secret missions. How long take UFP rebuild pre war levels is guess work.

See UFP symbols on the map and see Klingon fleet symbols on the map. Count number symbol count fleet location while one giant symbol Klingon fleet possible starbase or just massive fleets protect a system. There only 4 UFP symbol map something like 8 Kingon symbol on the map. Suggestion that UFP has 4 fleets worth of starship Klingon something 9 fleet worth starships.
Sounds like utter speculation to me.

Only real evidence I had fact USS Enterprise D able to basic get starship build 22 year early heavy damage had basic nothing working in less 9 hour had basic every system including weapon system running and operational at levels they had before USS Enterprise C enter battle Romulus. BOP did minor damage. Normal UFP during TNG need six weeks to repair damage USS Enterprise D after Best of Both of Worlds. Here a link http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/2367and The Enterprise docks at Earth Station McKinley for six weeks of repair work. If starship repair another starship without need starship base then what can shipyards or starbase did.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Here my evidence UFP had four fleet worth. See UFP syblows on the map and see Klingon fleet syblows on the map

So, you made the assumption that those were actual fleets. They could be outposts, bases, or battle groups (Battle Group Omega (?) in Star Trek Nemesis was represented by the UFP symbol. So, no. You have no idea how many fleets they have.

See UFP symbols on the map and see Klingon fleet symbols on the map. Count number symbol count fleet location while one giant symbol Klingon fleet possible starbase or just massive fleets protect a system. There only 4 UFP symbol map something like 8 Kingon symbol on the map. Suggestion that UFP has 4 fleets worth of starship Klingon something 9 fleet worth starships.

Like I said. Pure speculation.

Only real evidence I had fact USS Enterprise D able to basic get starship build 22 year early heavy damage had basic nothing working in less 9 hour had basic every system including weapon system running and operational at levels they had before USS Enterprise C enter battle Romulus. BOP did minor damage. Normal UFP during TNG need six weeks to repair damage USS Enterprise D after Best of Both of Worlds. Here a link http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/2367and The Enterprise docks at Earth Station McKinley for six weeks of repair work. If starship repair another starship without need starship base then what can shipyards or starbase did.

There were other factors that one can attribute to that. One being the Captain healing after being assimulated.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The YE federation isn't going to mine the wormhole. The only reason that minefield existed was because of a random conversation between O'Brien, Dax, and Rom. Take away any one of those three people and that minefield is never created.

[Havok]

They may try to blow the fucking thing up though. They wouldn't give two shits about the wormhole aliens if it meant them or the Federation.

[TheHammer]

Given the federation having been at war, it would be likely to assume more resources devoted to weapon systems, which I think Jason B is going with this - Would a militarized Federation have a better shot against the Dominion than the peace focused one we saw. An economy devoted to war time production might be in better position to fight the Dominion, but it really depends on how much is left of the Federation after the war.

Another aspect to think about, the Dominion managed to gain Cardassian support due to the Klingons rolling through their empire following political upheaval. Without that presence, then the Dominion isn't granted such an easy foothold in the Alpha Quadrant. What if, given the threat of the Klingon Empire, that the Cardassians and Federation became allies. Romulans are obviously no friends to the Klingons either. If the three agreed to carve up the Klingon Empire and form an Alpha quadrant alliance it could in fact be in better position to fight a gamma quadrant incursion.

Really, there is so much different about that timeline that there is really no way to know what would happen, but might make for an interesting fanfic. So long as its written by someone other than Jason

[Terralthra]

The YE federation isn't going to mine the wormhole. The only reason that minefield existed was because of a random conversation between O'Brien, Dax, and Rom. Take away any one of those three people and that minefield is never created.

Nitpick: they were perfectly capable of mining it before. The conversation was how to mine it in a way that would be self-replenishing, since O'Brien and Dax both know they won't be around to keep replacing used mines.

[seanrobertson]

As others have said, we've no idea how much Starfleet weapons, shields and stuff might've advanced at a greater clip in the course of that alternate timeline -- if at all, for that matter. The E-D's bridge had a few extra doo-dads and everybody wore side-arms. Woooo Big fucking deal. If the alt. timeline Starfleet was so far ahead, where were the extra phaser strips we saw on the likes of other Galaxies a few years later, like the Venture in "WOTW"? And what was with the rather paltry firing rate we saw when the shit hit the fan? 5 torpedoes, then a few phaser strikes.

As my former mentor and dear friend, Dr. Michael J. Eldridge (may his soul rest in peace) used to say, tongue firmly in cheek, "WOOOOOOOOOOW"

It's possible Starfleet tech advanced during that war. Yar said her Enterprise's heat dissipation rates were probably half the E-C's, meaning they could "hang in a firefight a lot longer." But consider the gap between the E-C and E-D. The C went up in flames about twenty YEARS before the D's maiden voyage, and the D/GCS has over twice the volume of an Ambassador-class starship. 20 years advancement + twice the size = could easily equal the differential Yar mentioned, and then some, for our "conventional" timeline's GCS.

Even with our guesses at possible tactical advancements as a result of a Klingon-Federation war which, in effect, didn't happen ( ), yeah: the Dominion would steamroll 'em if a forward-thinking commander didn't close the wormhole first.

[JasonB]

UFP has five fleet worth starships Accord written that Star Terk yesterday Enterprise with map. I learn that I watch Star Terk Alternate Realities collective extra on Yesterday Enterprise part.

Accord Natasha Yar the UFP lost little more half starfleet.

In Yesterday Enterprise time-line likely Klingon Empire likely just over ran the Romulan star Empire attack Narendra III l cause full scale war between Romulan Star Empire and Klingon Empire. So might not even be Romulan Star Empire and same might true Cardasson Union . My theory to explain how Klingon Empire winning war because over power the Romulan Star Empire and perhaps Cardasson Union and using shipyard slave labor to mass build up fleet that is two time the size UFP fleet. Worf own bother open admit the Klingon Empire even have chance beaten the UFP. I be open other theory Klingon Empire almost readily crush the UFP in Yesterday Enterprise time-line. While normal time-line it would take Klingon Empire a decade to repair it self form 3 year war with Dominion compare UFP able jump right back own feet. http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/2380s

[Batman]

UFP has five fleet worth starships Accord written that Star Terk yesterday Enterprise with map.

Which is not only as evidenced by-you saying so (assuming I can make out what you're trying t say) but tells us-nothing whatsoever, there's been plenty of fleets on real world earth that had no ships whatsoever.

I learn that I watch Star Terk Alternate Realities collective extra on Yesterday Enterprise part.

Which is totally completely not canon.

Accord Natasha Yar the UFP lost little more half starfleet.

Quote, please?

In Yesterday Enterprise time-line likely Klingon Empire likely

Aand you just lost. 'Likely' is irrelevant. Prove they did. Coulda woulda shoulda doesn't mean beans. Show that actually happened in the Yesterday's Enterprise alternate timeline.

Why am I trying to debate a guy who's got english language skills considerably below the cookie I just ate?
Boredom?
Aside from that.

[Enigma]

Let me reiterate what you guys seem to forget about Jason.

Guys, we already know that the YE UFP will lose horribly to the Dominion for various reasons.

Do not bother to argue with JasonB. His WoI is one of the worst that I've encountered. HE....WILL.....NOT.....BACK....DOWN. Even if you pound his head with a ton of evidence, he will not change his mind. None whatsoever. He's oblivious to reason. He's the one who I made the quote to in my sig. His intellect is literally that of a Pakled.

When he makes a topic, we're basically spinning our wheels, going nowhere with him.

[Metahive]

Has somebody checked out if that isn't just darthy/marsh#/tremors etc. again trying out some new shtick by emulating the mannerisms of the guy enigma's mentioned? His babelfish-style writing aside, he's arguing in a very similar vein as darthy did.

[Enigma]

Has somebody checked out if that isn't just darthy/marsh#/tremors etc. again trying out some new shtick by emulating the mannerisms of the guy enigma's mentioned? His babelfish-style writing aside, he's arguing in a very similar vein as darthy did.

As far as I know, he's not the same. If you want to see more as how bad he can really be, check out his posts in asvs.org. Over there he's "Jason".

[TheHammer]

UFP has five fleet worth starships Accord written that Star Terk yesterday Enterprise with map. I learn that I watch Star Terk Alternate Realities collective extra on Yesterday Enterprise part.

Accord Natasha Yar the UFP lost little more half starfleet.

In Yesterday Enterprise time-line likely Klingon Empire likely just over ran the Romulan star Empire attack Narendra III l cause full scale war between Romulan Star Empire and Klingon Empire. So might not even be Romulan Star Empire and same might true Cardasson Union . My theory to explain how Klingon Empire winning war because over power the Romulan Star Empire and perhaps Cardasson Union and using shipyard slave labor to mass build up fleet that is two time the size UFP fleet. Worf own bother open admit the Klingon Empire even have chance beaten the UFP. I be open other theory Klingon Empire almost readily crush the UFP in Yesterday Enterprise time-line. While normal time-line it would take Klingon Empire a decade to repair it self form 3 year war with Dominion compare UFP able jump right back own feet. http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/2380s

Why would the Klingon response to the Romulans be any different in the YE timeline? The Romulans attacked Narendra III in both timelines. If the Klingons were willing to go to war over it then they would have in the original timeline as well.

[Tyralak]

Has somebody checked out if that isn't just darthy/marsh#/tremors etc. again trying out some new shtick by emulating the mannerisms of the guy enigma's mentioned? His babelfish-style writing aside, he's arguing in a very similar vein as darthy did.

Nope, he's the real deal. He's been a member of ASVS for a year and a half. It looks like he's treating you guys to a replay of his Greatest Hits. He's the Trekkie version of Wes Hutchins. I'm a hardcore Trekkie in the VS debates, and this guy embarrasses me. Have fun, guys!

[JasonB]

In practice UFP war with Klingon Empire happens basic 2 years after USS enterprise C disappeared. USS Enterprise C travel 22 years future war it self want on 20 years. With fact the USS Enterprise D if you wish see evidence you can watch video form 4 minute and 48 seconds to about 6 minute and 17 seconds
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orVyvujK ... re=related[/youtube]

Fact is Klingon Empire want war UFP the same year the Romulus commit the Khitomer Massacre. Fact Romulus us Prisons to trade for territorial concessions suggestion break lose after Khitomer massacre. It conflict Romulus star Empire help trigger a war UFP.
You want to see evidence UFP lost more half Starfleet to Klingon Empire. If you wish see evidence watch same video form 7 minute and 27 seconds to about 7 minute and 29 seconds.
More evidence UFP able every starship damage fleet operation running less few months is USS Voyager would require at least 6 days during with lot less damage. Chakotay estimates at least six days of repairs. http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Prototype_%28episode%29
USS Enterprise D form Yesterday Enterprise UFP was able gets much more heavy damage starship they able get ship up running basic in less then 9 hours. Across USS Enterprise C ran on technology used 22 year early to add problems.