Tanner,
Yeah, geez. I was getting too hot under the collar there. (I seem to do that every time I rejoin the discussions :\ .) I've been under a fair amount of stress as of late, but who isn't? That's no excuse to use the BBS as a release valve. Apologies.
Now, about the bioship in "Prey" ...
I do find it completely incredible that the ship Paris said was destroyed in "Scorpion Pt. II" could be the same one the VGR [almost] encounters six months later.
A. When the cube rammed the bioship, it sure looked like it went up in flames to me. I'll pull out my DVD copy and take a closer look, but I'm confident the cube took the bioship with it, just as Tommy Boy reported.
B. When I say it's an uncanny coincidence that this bioship first encounters the VGR deep in Borg space, then the pilot from the same hapless ship makes his way aboard the VGR six months later, keep in mind I'm taking into account several things, most notably distance and course.
Let me explain.
As you may recall, Kes sent Janeway and company ~10,000 ly "closer to home" and "safely beyond Borg territory" in "The Gift," the episode that aired right after "Scorpion." On a similar note, they probably covered another 500 ly or so before encountering the Hirogen. (That is a rough guess. I figure each season = 1 year and 1,000 ly closer to the Alpha Quadrant on average, so 6 months = maybe half that.)
In other words, if we entertained the idea that the bioship was damaged by that collision, as I said, that occured deep inside Borg territory. In order to board the VGR many months later, then, the bioship had to cover ~10,500 ly ... and in a direction that just happens to match our venerable little Intrepid-class ship's course?
I think that's too far out there. A more elegant explanation's that the Borg wounded another ship altogether, and that we shouldn't regard Tuvok's "psychic impressions" as literally as they're depicted. After all, the creature could relate things to Tuvok, then his mind converted that into images to which he could relate and understand. Like if I say, "Darth Tanner, think: mom, home, hurt." Your mind would conjure up a different face, place and memory of pain than my mine would, but we're still thinking about similar things.
In fact, for once, I'd say this is a knock against adhering to the so-called "suspension of disbelief" method too rigidly. From my perspective, it actually violates SOD to say this bioship/pilot are one in the same because:
*as noted, it sure looked like the bioship was destroyed in that crash. At least, to me. We saw that "live," so it's documentary footage (unlike subjective psychic impressions)
*if it wasn't destroyed, Paris is mistaken. I tire of the "characters are idiots" meme so I object to that on principle
But if one preferred to disregard all that and limit me to a couple of talking points, I'd beat the absurd coincidence drum for reasons noted, and I'd stand fast on the "cube crashed bioship to destruction" count as well. I've never seen that contested before, though, so I'll take vidcaps from my DVD given the opportunity. I might be able to capture something that many of the big vidgrab sites missed.
Species 8472 invades - what could happen?
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- seanrobertson
- Jedi Council Member
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Re: Species 8472 invades - what could happen?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world, or despair, or fuckin' beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, ya got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man ... and give some back.
-Al Swearengen
Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay: The worst is death, and death will have his day.
-Ole' Shakey's "Richard II," Act III, scene ii.
-Al Swearengen
Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay: The worst is death, and death will have his day.
-Ole' Shakey's "Richard II," Act III, scene ii.
- Darth Tanner
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Re: Species 8472 invades - what could happen?
No harm done... my arm will grow back
Anyway I think the whole argument of which ship is which has gotten away from the central point that 8472 ships walk all over the Borg. Which I think we both agreed on.
I suppose from a realistic viewpoint it is incredible that it just happens to be on the same overall course seeing as it has no reason to be heading anywhere but away from Borg space. However, this is Voyager where every anomaly in the delta quadrant was laid out on their course as well as the only other Starfleet vessel, some Amelia Earhart and a Klingon ship going the other way to boot.I do find it completely incredible that the ship Paris said was destroyed in "Scorpion Pt. II" could be the same one the VGR [almost] encounters six months later.
Oh it certainly does get engulfed in the fireball from the cube. As with most of Star Trek however there is no debris from it specifically, and the only effect is a huge chunk of the cube spinning out of the fireball before it cuts back to the bridge.When the cube rammed the bioship, it sure looked like it went up in flames to me.
I'm more than prepared to admit that. Do you have the episode name in which the Klingon attack on DS9 was shown in a similar telepathic vision?and that we shouldn't regard Tuvok's "psychic impressions" as literally as they're depicted
Going by their massively superior firepower and endurance I wouldn’t be surprised to learn their orders of magnitude faster as well. Then again what are the chances it just happens to flee on the same rough course as Voyager.the bioship had to cover ~10,500 ly
For once Paris might be forgiven for such a mistake though, if the 8472 ship was rammed by the cube and its smashed up hull was buried in its debris then for all intents and purposes it would have been destroyed from his viewpoint, we already know 8472 ships don’t show up very well on their sensors.if it wasn't destroyed, Paris is mistaken. I tire of the "characters are idiots" meme so I object to that on principle
Anyway I think the whole argument of which ship is which has gotten away from the central point that 8472 ships walk all over the Borg. Which I think we both agreed on.
Get busy living or get busy dying... unless there’s cake.
Re: Species 8472 invades - what could happen?
Here:
There doesn't seem to be anything left. I think you can even see the bioship getting snapped in half for a very brief moment but I could be mistaken.
There doesn't seem to be anything left. I think you can even see the bioship getting snapped in half for a very brief moment but I could be mistaken.
People at birth are naturally good. Their natures are similar, but their habits make them different from each other.
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Saddam’s crime was so bad we literally spent decades looking for our dropped monocles before we could harumph up the gumption to address it
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O God, please don't let me die today, tomorrow would be so much better!
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-Sanzi Jing (Three Character Classic)
Saddam’s crime was so bad we literally spent decades looking for our dropped monocles before we could harumph up the gumption to address it
-User Indigo Jump on Pharyngula
O God, please don't let me die today, tomorrow would be so much better!
-Traditional Spathi morning prayer