Spock's unification movement

[Prometheus Unbound]

During TOS it is known, shown and rumoured that vulcan relationships are strange, right down to "the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely" from Chapel, followed immediately by "you wouldn't, couldn't hurt me.

It's interesting, Sarek noted in TNG "He would leave for days on end, and say not where he went. I forbade him, he did it anyway. I punished him, he... endured it."

I think there's physical punishment on Vulcan, and it can get quite heated.

[FaxModem1]

Vulcans do appear to have love, and do have ways to express it. Tuvok has even mentioned that they have the equivalent of 'love at first sight'. It's called Shon-ha'lock.

If there is love between a Vulcan and its mate, and they've bonded over sex(and in pon farr), they even experience a telepathic mating bond. Afterwards, they will have a psychic bond, which we see with Trip and T'pol in season 4 of Enterprise. So, while relations may seem cold to outsiders, it would actually be a rather intimate experience between involved parties. Spock also has no reason to contradict the Romulan Commander, as he is seducing her so that she will trust him, and telling her that she's wrong about what she brings to the table would only shatter the illusion she has of tempting him, and reduce their chances of stealing the cloaking device.

Vulcans try to be masters of understatement, but they do have meaning behind their words. Unlike Nurse Chapel or the Romulan Commander, Picard has experience with Vulcans, and reacts appropriately when he hears a compliment:

PICARD
The honor is ours.

PERRIN
My husband has followed your
career with interest. He finds
it to be satisfactory.

PICARD
(reacts with pleasure)
High praise from a Vulcan.

PERRIN
Ah, then you have had experience
with Vulcans, Captain. Some
people who expect an emotional
response often find Vulcans
quite cold when they are merely
being...

PICARD
Logical.

PERRIN
Exactly.

Vulcans are also quite private. Spock, Vorik and Tuvok do not like discussing the pon farr, as they consider it embarrassing, as its the one time their emotional control gives way and they are not in control of themselves. The ritual comes from 'the beginning', so it may even be before Surak's logic movement took over, and is a leftover from their illogical days.

T'PAU: What they are about to see comes down from the time of the beginning, without change. This is the Vulcan heart. This is the Vulcan soul. This is our way. Kah-if-farr.

So, the logical Vulcans might have seen a model that already worked, and simply adopted it into their new culture, like religions here on Earth did with previous beliefs, rituals and traditions.

[FaxModem1]

As for woman's choice, there does seem to be the option of choice if the marriage isn't already arranged by the two families:

VORIK: Let me take this opportunity to declare koon-ut so'lik, my desire to become your mate.
TORRES: What?
VORIK: In human terms, I am proposing marriage. Do you accept?
TORRES: This is, er, a little sudden, isn't it? Besides, I thought that Vulcan marriages were arranged. Don't you already have somebody back home?
VORIK: She has sufficient reason to consider me lost, and has most likely chosen another mate. It's appropriate for me to do the same.
TORRES: And you've chosen me?
VORIK: I have come to greatly admire not only your impressive technical skills, but also your bravery and sense of moral duty. All excellent qualities in a prospective mate.
TORRES: But you're Vulcan. I am half-Klingon. I really can't imagine
VORIK: Perhaps we are not an obvious match. However, our differences would complement each other. You've often expressed frustration with your Klingon temper. My mental discipline would help you control it. Furthermore, I feel that
TORRES: Wait, please. Please, I'm. I see that you've given this a lot of, er, logical thought and I really am very flattered, but my answer is no. I'm sorry.
VORIK: B'Elanna, you may wish to reconsider. Your choices for a mate are currently limited to seventy three male crew members on this ship, some of whom are already unavailable.
TORRES: I'll worry about my choices myself, thank you.
VORIK: I should also remind you that many humanoid species are unable to withstand Klingon mating practices
TORRES: Okay, that's enough.
VORIK: whereas my superior Vulcan strength would make me a very suitable partner.
(Vorik grabs Torres' face with both hands. She manages to break his hold and knocks him down.)

Vorik is going through pon farr, so he's not taking no for an answer, but it does seem to be something Women or Men can say no to.

[NecronLord]

That's fine and well but fundamentally there's some unpleasant stuff - heads being bashed in, owning the female, some at least, children not expressing love naturally, child telepathic bonding & betrothal - going on on Vulcan that might make Vulcanization unpopular with Romulans. You have shown clearly that other options exist but also that when Voyager left the arranged marriage (presumably with its attendant bloodshed?) was still known.

I also find it amusing to think of the Romulans as the progressives...

[Elheru Aran]

Out of universe, obviously the writers didn't really think through the whole unification thing.

In universe... well obviously as a political movement it wouldn't have played at all, and gotten squashed as soon as possible. More likely Spock was attempting to implement a cultural and philosophical change which would have had gradual political effects, but the primary objective would have been to try and bring Romulan thinking more in line with that of the Vulcan, or by extension Federation, culture. Less imperial assholery. A little more rational exchange.

[Lord Revan]

True this kind of movement would probably result in more Vulcan like Romulan nation (Like the Romulan Republic in STO) before true unification.

[FaxModem1]

That's fine and well but fundamentally there's some unpleasant stuff - heads being bashed in, owning the female, some at least, children not expressing love naturally, child telepathic bonding & betrothal - going on on Vulcan that might make Vulcanization unpopular with Romulans. You have shown clearly that other options exist but also that when Voyager left the arranged marriage (presumably with its attendant bloodshed?) was still known.

I also find it amusing to think of the Romulans as the progressives...

Yes, but it does present a spectrum of Vulcan beliefs. There are the conservatives, who believe in arranged marriages, which like to adhere to the ancient rituals, and there are the Vulcan progressives, who prefer to fall in love at first sight, propose marriage, and getting to know a mate before marrying them. Spock's family, as well as Koss's, believed in the ancient traditions. T'pol did not:

T'POL: Why are you here?
KOSS: The answer should be obvious.
T'POL: You've received my letters. You know I'm not interested in marriage.
KOSS: The decision isn't ours alone. My parents believe in the old traditions. For them, a betrothal cannot simply be dismissed.
T'POL: You have the option of choosing another mate.
KOSS: I don't want another mate.

So, Vulcan isn't monolithic, it has a varied spectrum, same as any demographic. It would be the same as lumping in all of Christian teaching and lessons in their culture and saying that no other person would be interested in learning about it because there are those who practice Mortification of the flesh, when there are huge swaths of groups who don't practice it. It's possible Spock started teaching his students about arranged marriages and the pon farr, but we don't really know. It's also possible(and I think likely) he was teaching them the building blocks of Vulcan culture so as to institute an understanding between the two cultures.

As for the Romulans being more progressive? That really depends on Romulan culture vs Vulcan culture. Sela, in Unification, admitted that she loved writing, and rarely gets a chance to do so due to her career, meaning the military might not have been her first choice. There's also all the times Romulans prize duty and one's family over everything else. In The Defector, after all, the titular Defector commits suicide for his family and people. In Unification, the Romulans also blow up all the ground troops about to invade Vulcan. I don't believe the Vulcans have a similar "fall on your sword" counterpoint in their culture.

[Prometheus Unbound]

In Unification, the Romulans also blow up all the ground troops about to invade Vulcan. I don't believe the Vulcans have a similar "fall on your sword" counterpoint in their culture.

Vulcans do sometimes practice ritual suicide to preserve their honour.

[FaxModem1]

In Unification, the Romulans also blow up all the ground troops about to invade Vulcan. I don't believe the Vulcans have a similar "fall on your sword" counterpoint in their culture.

Vulcans do sometimes practice ritual suicide to preserve their honour.

When was this? I honestly don't recall.

[NecronLord]

They even have something like it in Amok Time. T'Pau brings an executioner for cowards.

[Prometheus Unbound]

In Unification, the Romulans also blow up all the ground troops about to invade Vulcan. I don't believe the Vulcans have a similar "fall on your sword" counterpoint in their culture.

Vulcans do sometimes practice ritual suicide to preserve their honour.

When was this? I honestly don't recall.

Death Wish

QUINN: But I need someone who understands Federation asylum practices. Besides, Vulcans approve of suicide.
TUVOK: It is true that Vulcans who reach a certain infirmity with age, do practice ritual suicides. Nevertheless, I fail to see how that fact would be meaningful in this circumstance.


See Sarek - I presume when they end up like that some of them do it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That says nothing of "preserving their honour." It's just a ritualised form of euthanasia from the sounds of it. Besides, that's all of one line in the whole franchise, not a good basis for an argument.

[FaxModem1]

In Sarek and Death Wish, it is more akin to euthanasia than suicide to prevent shame from befalling the family or themselves. Similar to the death of McCoy's father due to the pain in Star Trek V.

The Romulans, however, have high prices for failure in contrast to the Vulcans:

VRAX: This mission was supposed to cause dissension in the region. It's had the opposite effect.
VALDORE: Senator, you have a right
VRAX: The Andorians and Tellarites have formed an alliance. They're working together for the first time in history.
VALDORE: It won't last.
VRAX: The group of senators doesn't share your optimism. They're presenting a motion to cancel this mission.
VALDORE: That would be a mistake.
VRAX: The mistake was mine when I supported this endeavour. Do you realise how you've weakened my position?
VALDORE: When this is over, you'll be First Consul.
VRAX: After a failure of this magnitude, I could be dead.
VALDORE: This isn't a failure. It's a setback. We have to deal with the humans. They are the ones that brought the Andorians and Tellarites together. The second Drone ship is armed and ready for battle. With two ships, I can deliver a devastating blow. We will hunt down Enterprise and destroy it.

NIJIL: We'll be ready to launch in twelve hours.
VALDORE: And the pilot?
NIJIL: He's resting.
VALDORE: Will he be ready?
NIJIL: I'll make sure that he is.
VALDORE: Spoken like a soldier.
NIJIL: I'm a scientist.
VALDORE: We're all soldiers, Nijil, from the moment we're born. When we forget that we invite disaster. You know I was once a senator?
NIJIL: No.
VALDORE: Many years ago. Vrax and I were colleagues. I even considered him a friend.
NIJIL: What happened?
VALDORE: I made the mistake of challenging the precept of unlimited expansion. I asked the question. Is conquest truly the best course for our people? And I was expelled.
NIJIL: I'm sorry.
VALDORE: I'm not trying to evoke your pity. I want you to learn from my experience. When I was led away from the Senate chamber, I vowed never to repeat my error and never to forget my purpose.
NIJIL: I understand.
VALDORE: Continue with your preparations.

Vulcans can be stubborn and adhere to traditions, they seem progressive enough to take another course of action or listening to another argument if it seems more logical then the one they hold. We do not see Vulcans committing ritual suicide or fearing death for disagreeing with each other, after all.

As for the executioner, as I said, the whole arranged marriages bit seems to be a leftover bit from pre-Surakian culture, that is represented in Vulcan society, but not omnipresent, depending on the family. Whether it is in the majority or not is unknown. It's also labeled execution, not suicide, for cowards. Either way, the person is dead, but it seems to be a matter of the person's choice in the matter. I do wonder how many Vulcans try and opt out of the ritual, like T'Pol did, due to not wanting the one they married.

[NecronLord]

Even in her, less Surakian era, T'pol had an arranged partner. Torres says 'I thought Vulcan marriages were arranged' and Vorik doesn't put her right, instead talking about his. I would say that's enough to say that we can conclude that arranged marriages are the norm, and that the rituals in Amok Time are also part of most Vulcan culture; never once does anyone go 'oh wow they're doing the thing with the executioner.' With, presumably the attendant sexism and violence.

In no way am I saying the Romulans are better people or culturally superior, but that there are definately things about Vulcan that would make people not want to become Vulcan-like. It's unclear to me if the Unificationists want to assimilate to Vulcan traditions, or if they want to open a dialogue and peaceful exchange; the latter is infinitely more reasonable though.

As for the Vulcans, their culture is not purely rational, even though that is clearly their highest virtue. T'Pel has monks start praying for Tuvok's safe return (though admittedly, the Dominion War's resolution for the Federation does suggest that there is some virtue in prayer - perhaps Vulcan priests and monks actually worship whatever god of the week seems likely to do things for them!) and of course, their cultural artifacts are beautiful but clearly designed to evoke awe from a supposedly rationalistic people. It would be rather boring if they were completely rational.

What I am saying, is that there's plenty of reasons for a reasonable Romulan to not want to adopt Vulcan ways.

[Elheru Aran]

It's unclear to me if the Unificationists want to assimilate to Vulcan traditions, or if they want to open a dialogue and peaceful exchange; the latter is infinitely more reasonable though.
...

What I am saying, is that there's plenty of reasons for a reasonable Romulan to not want to adopt Vulcan ways.

Yeah, I don't think Spock is the type to promote complete assimilation. He's quite aware of the differences that exist between cultures, having had to deal with that in his own heritage and experience, serving as an ambassador from the Federation to various civilizations across the galaxy. Certainly he encourages a certain 'Vulcan-ness' but I don't think he would insist on assimilation as much as a peaceful reconciliation between the two cultures. Note how he doesn't bother to attempt to correct the Klingons' ways in STVI, for example.

As far as the OP goes, this is more palatable to the Federation administration than an outright mission to subvert the Romulan Empire. To them, I can see it being the equivalent of a church sending missionaries to a distant land; as long as they don't cause a massive fuck-up, the Federation doesn't care how many people they do or don't convert. Minimal fireworks are good news. If they get themselves into trouble, they can't count on being rescued.

What that means to other alien civilizations out there? Increased paranoia, I suppose, but probably not that much more than they already had.

[FaxModem1]

Even in her, less Surakian era, T'pol had an arranged partner. Torres says 'I thought Vulcan marriages were arranged' and Vorik doesn't put her right, instead talking about his. I would say that's enough to say that we can conclude that arranged marriages are the norm, and that the rituals in Amok Time are also part of most Vulcan culture; never once does anyone go 'oh wow they're doing the thing with the executioner.' With, presumably the attendant sexism and violence.

T'pol brought up the concept of choosing another mate, which Koss rejected, which seems odd for an arranged marriage that one is forced to take. T'pol only agreed to the marriage because of her mother's career(showing some problems with Vulcan culture at that time). It is also worth noting that we don't see any executioners at T'pol's wedding(whether this is because T'pol or Koss didn't hire them, Surakian reform made them necessary in later years, or it wasn't as prestigious a wedding as Spock's is unknown). Koss also notes how out of use and ancient the kalifee is. It does not appear to be something that happens regularly at Vulcan weddings.

Kirk and McCoy had never witnessed any Vulcan ceremonies before, and weren't steeped in Vulcan culture, they have no idea what is the norm and what isn't. Sarek, Spock's father, also married two human women(and a Vulcan princess, but I like to pretend that Star Trek V never happened), and it seems unlikely that Amanda or Perrin agreed to the executioner if their guests got too rowdy at the reception. It is logical(heh heh) to conclude that the focus on ritual came from T'Pring's family, and so the ancient customs were followed, and she wanted out of them. In Gravity, we have flashbacks to Tuvok as a youth, and his love for a Vulcan female is brought up. His potential marriage to T'Pel, his wife in the present, that he might be ruining by falling for this girl is not brought up, only his lack of control to his emotions, or his arranging of marriages for his children to be married. So, it might not be the norm, as we have more characters (Sarek, Tuvok, Tuvok's family, maybe Saavik and Valeris but we don't know enough about their personal lives to know) with no mention of arranged marriage than we do with it (T'pol, Spock and Vorik). It is a part of their culture, that is agreed, but does not seem to be the norm, or at least the majority.

Vorik was also more focused on getting into Torres' pants than explaining Vulcan's history and culture to her. Since the concept of proposing is also in the same conversation, it is likely that Vorik considered the matter immaterial to getting Torres to agree to mate, and how compatible the two of them would be, which was the crux of the conversation.

In no way am I saying the Romulans are better people or culturally superior, but that there are definately things about Vulcan that would make people not want to become Vulcan-like. It's unclear to me if the Unificationists want to assimilate to Vulcan traditions, or if they want to open a dialogue and peaceful exchange; the latter is infinitely more reasonable though.

As for the Vulcans, their culture is not purely rational, even though that is clearly their highest virtue. T'Pel has monks start praying for Tuvok's safe return (though admittedly, the Dominion War's resolution for the Federation does suggest that there is some virtue in prayer - perhaps Vulcan priests and monks actually worship whatever god of the week seems likely to do things for them!) and of course, their cultural artifacts are beautiful but clearly designed to evoke awe from a supposedly rationalistic people. It would be rather boring if they were completely rational.

What I am saying, is that there's plenty of reasons for a reasonable Romulan to not want to adopt Vulcan ways.

Agreed, Vulcans are clearly not purely logical, as they embrace beauty, ethics, empathy, and tradition. However, these parts of Vulcan culture, and the Vulcan openness to new ideas that the Romulans do not, are probably what attract Romulans to Spock's movement.(the kid whose parents gave him building blocks with Vulcan letters as a child, for instance)