Star Trek 09 review thread

[JME2]

Despite the Countdown mini-series and my thoughts going into the filn, I ended up liking Nero a lot more than I thought I would. This isn't a larger-than life, charismatic or as memorable as say Khan, Dukat, or the Borg Queen -- but that's the point. This isn't the leader of an interstellar empire, a genetic superman, or a military leader. It's an average, blue collar Joe, a miner whose life and that of his buddies rightfully got fucked over. It worked for the film and was a nice break from the traditinional Trek rogues gallery. OIbviously, they can't do that again with the sequel, so If the Klingons are the main antagonists next time as I'm hoping, maybe we'll see revamped versions of Kor, Koloth, Kang, or even younger versions of Korrd and Chang.

Much as I hated Nemesis, I must say Nero's ship looked like something out of that movie. And indeed, having the villain be somebody dicked over by the Federation, likely due to events that had to deal with Nemesis (Romulans and the Federation working together) reinforced the tie. Unintentional or not, it made it feel like a sequel, albeit a loose one, to Nemesis.

Yeah, I wasn't crazy about the design of the Narada; too reminiscent of the Scimitar. It was one of two complaints I had against the film, the other being a minor quibble with Michael Giacchino's score. I liked that he went the David Arnold/Casino Royale route by hinting at the TOS theme before going into a full-blown rendition at the end, but part of me had really been hoping that he would re-use Jerry Goldsmith's TOS Movie theme. Oh well...

[General Zod]

By the way, anybody else noticed the lack of metric measurements? Did the English system win out?

I wasn't paying that much attention when I saw the movie.

[speaker-to-trolls]

By the way, anybody else noticed the lack of metric measurements? Did the English system win out?

I'm confused by this, do you mean lack of Imperial measurements? Because I distinctly remember them counting down things like the descent to the end of the drill in meters.

[Gil Hamilton]

By the way, anybody else noticed the lack of metric measurements? Did the English system win out?

When they were paradropping to the head of the drill, they were counting off in meters.

[Coyote]

Part of the gripe about this being all "fiction" and no "science" is just spillover from the old "hard" science-fiction vs. "soft" science-fiction argument. Ebert has always seemed like a "hard SF" type to me, where a story about the 1st trip to Mars is "sci-fi" but a story about the 2nd trip to Mars is "just drama in space" (unless some sort of new scientific challenge is somehow made a part of it).

But Trek, in the 1960's and 70's, has been a bit about the science of space but more about how access to that kind of science changes of effects society and the people who are confronted with it. Space travel has become accepted by society as routine, even expected, so it's not a "scientific challenge" anymore-- the "challenge" is confronting inner fears, having near godlike power, and meeting aliens that don't conform to pre-existing expectations.

I saw this show last night and thought that, in what it was created to do and set out to do, was re-boot Star Trek and make it relevant to a modern audience. Back in the 60's, just seeing a Black female in the background as an officer was breakthrough. Her mere presence, token as it was, was astonishing. Now, the idea of a Black woman in a position of power is not so powerful a statement; she has to do something, be more dynamic. She adds to Spock's character in this case.

James Kirk and Spock are now, also, free of restrictions from TOS era, and presented with new challenges. Kirk didn't have his dad growing up this time; Spock doesn't have to live up to standards of Vulcan (rigid, disciplined) or balance that with being a good son to his mother (emotional, human) if he doesn't want to.

The time travel aspect was workable this time because finally we get to see time travel from the point of view of those being traveled upon, instead of those doing the traveling.

I liked Nero because it was obvious early on that this guy had no military bearing or decorum at all. As he and his point of view became revealed, I think that it added menace. A military man would probably be more predictable; but this guy will react entirely according to his gut reactions and emotions.

It seems t me that a lot of this was about abandoning restrictions and preconceive dnotions, not a bad take on the concept of a reboot.

[Skylon]

I must say, I really enjoyed the token red-shirt death.

Heck, that and all the goofy TOS references, and slight camp factor just helped make it feel more like Trek.

[JME2]

I must say, I really enjoyed the token red-shirt death.

I had been wondering if they were going to invoke the ancient and noble tradition of the Redshirt curse and when it did happen, Theran and I were laughing our assess off...

[Lord Revan]

I must say, I really enjoyed the token red-shirt death.

I had been wondering if they were going to invoke the ancient and noble tradition of the Redshirt curse and when it did happen, Theran and I were laughing our assess off...

well though unlike most red/gold shirt deaths, it was pretty much totally the redshirt's fault that he died.

[Ubiquitous]

I don't really have much to add, I thought it was good fun but not as great as some seem to think.
Spoiler

I liked the acting. I liked the Kobe. Maru simulation featuring. I didn't like the lack of screentime given to Nero. I didn't like the overuse of unusual camera shots/movement. I was unsure as to why Spock was dating Uhura. I couldn't believe it when they destroyed Vulcan - that was totally unexpected and I expected all film for a reset button to be hit, but it didn't. I would have liked to see some Klingons.

Note - I was very surprised how busy the cinema was. It looks like Trek truly has mass appeal once more. I couldn't even get into the IMAX screenings - I had to settle for a normal screen viewing instead. I haven't seen a cinema so full since a midnight viewing of SWIII. Good to see so many young fans in the cinema as well.

I hope this is the start of a new batch of Trek films. The sad thing is that the cast would probably be too pricey for a TV series.

[VT-16]

Most points I would make have been said here already, but I think the best complement I can give it, is that the film isn't just a good Star Trek film, it's a good film, period.

There's also a pervasive sense of sadness running through the flick, both in terms of the story and the characters. Really nice and touching and I think it'll be a good way to revitalize the franchise. Still trying to make sense of all my impressions upon seeing it, but it was exhilarating.

Oh, and Spoiler

a galaxywide supernova? Q's reaction to seeing Nemesis, perhaps?

[SylasGaunt]

well though unlike most red/gold shirt deaths, it was pretty much totally the redshirt's fault that he died.

Eh, he basically did the same thing Kirk did. He was waiting until the last moment to pull his chute (like he was told). Unfortunately it's windy as shit up on that thing ad he got blown off and sucked into the beam. The same thing almost happened to Kirk despite him opening his chute earlier, but he managed to grab hold of something and retract his chute before he got dragged away.

But yeah I saw it with a friend of mine and we both started cackling. Here we've got Kirk, Sulu, and a guy in red with only one name going on an away mission. Sorry Chief, you're a dead man walking.

[SylasGaunt]

Spoiler

Why couldn't Spock teleport into the Culture hall?

Drammatic necessity.

One thing I noticed on the second viewing is that the entrance seems to have the frame for a really thick door on it.. perhaps it's like all those 'secure locations' they're always taking the president to in other movies, only since it's Trek it's got to be a place the enemy can't beam troops into if he can find it.

[Loner]

I'm confused by this, do you mean lack of Imperial measurements? Because I distinctly remember them counting down things like the descent to the end of the drill in meters.

When they were paradropping to the head of the drill, they were counting off in meters.

You're right on that part. But I also remember them also using miles in some instances.

[SylasGaunt]

Scotty uses the word miles once when talking about the grapefruit in the transporter but that's pretty much it as far as I can remember.

[Dahak]

I really liked it a lot. Even my boyfriend, who is far from being a Sci-Fi or Star Trek fan enjoyed it.
They could have done without Scotty's Ewok, and the score felt kind of bland, but apart from that, it was one of the best Star Treks in recent times. Lightyears ahead of Nemesis...

[Junghalli]

I'll just (mostly) copy and paste what I said about it on SB.com:

---------------------------------------------------------

The Good:

Getting the franchise back to its roots. I did get the feeling of them having more-or-less wiped the slate clean and gone back to beginning, which was good.

I liked the aesthetics of the orbital skydiving scene, and a lot of the FX were in general not bad. I mostly liked the way they "updated" TOS aesthetics; it felt believable and yet authentic - although I'm not so sure about the boiler room look they gave the Enterprises' engine room. I loved the orbital skydiving onto Vulcan scene - that was beautiful.

The fanservice homages were rather amusing.

The status quo is not God anymore. Nero blows up Vulcan with his tentacle ship! Vulcans are now an endangered species! Yes, let's have the oh so apocalyptic threat actually do serious damage to the good guys instead of just vaguely stand around be apocalyptically threatening. I like how they weren't afraid to take the bull by the horns and seriously screw up the status quo. It almost made me wish Nero had succeeded in destroying Earth - now that would have been a hell of a twist ending.

I liked the role reversal, with Spock as Captain and Kirk as First Officer. Actually, I sort of wish they'd kept it that way at the end, as it's an interesting change in the dynamics of the relationship from the original series.

I generally thought the movie did well enough as a light cheesefest that obviously didn't take itself too seriously.


The Bad:

I found the opening scene with Kirk's mom giving birth while Nero's tentacle ship tore up the Kelvin quite narmy. Judging by all the snickering from the audience I wasn't alone in that sentiment. BTW, I'm also kind of wondering what the Captain's pregnant wife was doing on the ship.

A lot of the aliens looked really bad and fake. The only one that looked decent to me was the nurse with the too big eyes who delivered Kirk.

I'm really not too sold on the whole "darker, edgier Kirk and McCoy" thing.

The command structure of the Enterprise seems ... odd. Pike can't find anyone to make Spock's first officer except some fresh out of the Academy guy who should logically be at the bottom of the officer food chain, and is a known problem case at that? Huh? I get that he seemed to have some rapport with Kirk but what happened to the chain of command?

The villain seemed quite unimaginative and generic. So, he wants to destroy the Federation and ... he has a giant ominous spiky tentacle ship equipped with yet another superweapon of the week? Honestly it reminds me uncomfortably of Nemesis, although at least Nero isn't as lame as Shinzon. Actually I don't think I disliked Nero as much as a I disliked that ship. It's like a textbook of brooding evil castle cliches. Huge, check. Ominous spiky techno-organic look, check. Lots of spikes and protrustions that apparently serve no purpose, check. Full of dark grungy spaces, check. Ridiculous ultra-hazardous workspaces that would have OSHA up in arms so they can milk more tension out of the fight scenes, check. Planet-destroying superweapon of the week that requires long drawn out prep procedure to milk more tension, check. Personally I'd really much have preferred it if his "superweapon" was just grabbing a big asteroid, towing it to the planet at warp, and throwing it down at high speed. It would fit well with the idea that the tentacle ship started out as a mining ship, and it would make the villain look more intimidating by having him make imaginative use of limited resources. Not to mention how little sense this particular superweapon makes. Why the hell is the drill necessary? Why don't they just have the black hole form on the surface - the results would be every bit as bad, and you wouldn't have to hang over the enemy homeworld for a ridiculous amount of time with some giant chain dangling into their atmosphere.

A lot of the battles were fought with a distracting level of incompetence. Why doesn't the Enterprise try to shoot down the single "red matter" missile as it falls through Vulcan's atmosphere? Why doesn't Nero just shoot the guys helplessly plunging into Vulcan's atmosphere to go sabotage his drill thingie? How is it that Nero's tentacle ship can just appear above Earth and deploy a huge ball and chain deep into the atmosphere which shoots some giant death beam and nobody's shooting at it until Enterprise arrives? Do they have no reserve ships? Do they have no fixed defenses? The tentacle ship should have been drenched in fire the instant it entered Earth orbit. I honestly can't say I was surprised at Trek more or less retaining its usual level of tactical cluelessness, but I was kind of hoping for something different this time around.

----

All told, as a franchise reboot I'd give it a C. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either.

[SylasGaunt]

I'm really not too sold on the whole "darker, edgier Kirk and McCoy" thing.

While I can see that somewhat with Kirk I didn't notice it in McCoy.. I mean yeah he bitches a lot but it's McCoy.

The command structure of the Enterprise seems ... odd. Pike can't find anyone to make Spock's first officer except some fresh out of the Academy guy who should logically be at the bottom of the officer food chain, and is a known problem case at that? Huh? I get that he seemed to have some rapport with Kirk but what happened to the chain of command?

I believe most of the ship's officers were fresh out of the academy due to the mobilization for the rescue mission.

A lot of the battles were fought with a distracting level of incompetence. Why doesn't the Enterprise try to shoot down the single "red matter" missile as it falls through Vulcan's atmosphere?

Because-

1.) They don't know what it is.
2.) There's no warning before it drops.
3.) They may not have had time to engage or even seen it given that giant death ships can be quite attention grabbing.
4.) Firing on it may have provoked the enormous death ship into swatting them like flies.

Why doesn't Nero just shoot the guys helplessly plunging into Vulcan's atmosphere to go sabotage his drill thingie?

Who says he saw them? You're talking three man-sized targets that are freefalling. For all its power the Narada was originally a mining ship and may not have the kind of sensor sensitivity that would let him pick up three low signature targets. There's also the possibility that they were spotted and he simply didn't have any weapons with sufficient precision to take them out without risking the destruction of the drill.

How is it that Nero's tentacle ship can just appear above Earth and deploy a huge ball and chain deep into the atmosphere which shoots some giant death beam and nobody's shooting at it until Enterprise arrives? Do they have no reserve ships?

I'm pretty sure the feddie fleet that went to help Vulcan were the reserve ships.

Do they have no fixed defenses? The tentacle ship should have been drenched in fire the instant it entered Earth orbit. I honestly can't say I was surprised at Trek more or less retaining its usual level of tactical cluelessness, but I was kind of hoping for something different this time around.

Nero had the codes that let him bypass the defenses. I think he referred to it as the 'border defense grid' or some such so it's possible that there are fixed defenses but they're built to engage out at the borders of the system rather than right up in Earth orbit. Or who knows maybe he'd already blown the bejeesus out of them. Given how he was able to pretty much go through any ship or fleet that got in his way like a chainsaw through soft cheese it probably wouldn't take that long.

[Junghalli]

While I can see that somewhat with Kirk I didn't notice it in McCoy.. I mean yeah he bitches a lot but it's McCoy.

I was talking about the bit where he joined Starfleet because of a messy divorce. I suppose strictly speaking it could very well have been true in the original timeline too, but I'm pretty sure it was an invention of this movie.

[Mad]

The villain seemed quite unimaginative and generic. So, he wants to destroy the Federation and ... he has a giant ominous spiky tentacle ship equipped with yet another superweapon of the week?

He's Romulan a.k.a. the space-emos. Nero wasn't thinking rationally, but through pure emotion.

Not to mention how little sense this particular superweapon makes.

Yeah, it apparently pulls a gravity well out of nowhere. (Well, maybe it pulls it from the past given its very strange time travel-enabling capability.)

Why the hell is the drill necessary? Why don't they just have the black hole form on the surface - the results would be every bit as bad, and you wouldn't have to hang over the enemy homeworld for a ridiculous amount of time with some giant chain dangling into their atmosphere.

Small black holes dissipate rather quickly. By placing it in the dense core, there's more mass to feed the black hole before it dissipates. (I haven't run the numbers to see if the core is dense enough for that to be feasible, but the black hole would certainly stand a better chance inside the core.) Or it would require much more red matter, but then he would have much less ammo to continue his planned rampage.

Why doesn't Nero just shoot the guys helplessly plunging into Vulcan's atmosphere to go sabotage his drill thingie?

And risk hitting it? (Assuming they were even detected.)

How is it that Nero's tentacle ship can just appear above Earth and deploy a huge ball and chain deep into the atmosphere which shoots some giant death beam and nobody's shooting at it until Enterprise arrives? Do they have no reserve ships?

The reserve ships were already destroyed over Vulcan, remember? All those ships were scrambled with cadets and the Enterprise was apparently the only remaining reserve ship left.

Do they have no fixed defenses?

Nero got authorization codes from Pike. Presumably the ship was out of range of the majority of the fixed defenses by the time anybody figured anything out.

[Worlds Spanner]

I just saw it a second time. This time I give it unreserved thumbs up, it was awesome.

I was very unhappy with the plot and Nero the first time around, this time I felt better. I think that the first time I was really busy wondering what different or amazing thing would be in the next scene, and the movie felt rushed. This time I focused on dialogue and on Eric Bana's facial expressions, and I was really impressed. It moved fast, but they crammed in a lot.

[Oskuro]

Just saw it, liked it a lot, some points I liked:
Spoiler

-Point Defense!
-They took some pains to show the portal nature of the portal, although it looked a bit wonky.
-Loved the faded über buildings in the background of the Iowa scenes. Adds a sense of future, without overdoing it.
-We can see our own ship from the bridge!
-They didn't kill off Spock Prime as time travel stories usualy do to hit the reset button! (SG-1 Continnum, I'm looking at you)

Of course, a few points bugged me:
Spoiler

-Cool as he was, Spock Prime felt a bit over-used
-It was too obvious that Kirk had reprogrammed the Kobayashi-Maru simulation
-If hand-held weapons can shut off the drill, and a non-combat ship can cut it off, can't they just fire a missile or something from the surface to hit it? A barrage? What, did they really get rid of all the nuclear ICBMs?
-The god-damned LENS FLARES! How can anyone work in that ship if every time you look around a lens-flare blinds you? Apparently, the director has apologized for the overuse of the lens flares, but I still want to accept his apology Vader-style.

Also, regarding some of the drama on this thread:
Spoiler

-The Enterprise looked sweet. Yeah, it's not the original, but fuck off, if I want the original, I'll watch the original, this one looks interesting.
-On the infamous "Kirk looks at the Enterprise being built" scene I didn't think about the plausibility of it, the only thing I was thinking at that moment was "There is your one true love, Jim". It was a very nice scene.
-Nero was a non-entity to me, not bad, not good, but it didn't bother me. The bad guy here was the threat he posed, not him. It's just as how an Imperial Captain is no a threat by himself, but the Star Destroyer he commands is.

Oh, and also: Spoiler

-Was that Cameron from House M.D. as Kirk's mother? Anyway, loved that scene, including how they choose the kid's name. Touching and epic at the same time.
-Damm, please tell me she's wearing makeup cause, otherwise, Winona Ryder is really looking old nowadays.
-Also, during Kirk's fight with Nero, I was expecting his shirt to get torn at some point.

[Junghalli]

You know, I wonder if the supernova that blew up Romulus wasn't that hypergiant in the ENT episode Cogenitor going up. It was supposed to explode in a few hundred years.

[Worlds Spanner]

f course, a few points bugged me:
Spoiler

-It was too obvious that Kirk had reprogrammed the Kobayashi-Maru simulation

Spoiler

I sort of liked that, it established Kirk as a non-conformist. Playing into our stereotypes of Starfleet, it's like his thinking was that these prissy do it by the book jerks aren't gonna be able to say anything, because it looks like I passed.

Spoiler

-The god-damned LENS FLARES! How can anyone work in that ship if every time you look around a lens-flare blinds you? Apparently, the director has apologized for the overuse of the lens flares, but I still want to accept his apology Vader-style.

Spoiler

I didn't even notice the lens flare the first time I saw it, but I read some reviews that mentioned it and this time it really bugged me. Star Trek has always used it in space, and I actually liked it during the scenes on the Kelvin, because along with the score and the bustling scene it seemed to establish that this was not the Star Trek of old but something bigger and more impressive. Like, every other Star Trek ever starts with a three-quarter view of the bridge with two people talking about something, or at least it feels like they do. After the opening the lens flare started to bother me.

[Oskuro]

Spoiler

I didn't even notice the lens flare the first time I saw it, but I read some reviews that mentioned it and this time it really bugged me. Star Trek has always used it in space, and I actually liked it during the scenes on the Kelvin, because along with the score and the bustling scene it seemed to establish that this was not the Star Trek of old but something bigger and more impressive. Like, every other Star Trek ever starts with a three-quarter view of the bridge with two people talking about something, or at least it feels like they do. After the opening the lens flare started to bother me.

Spoiler

They were cool in small doses, but for fucks sake, during Spock and Sarek's emotional dialogue in the transporter room you get hit with a lens flare as the camera pans from one to the other. Who in his right mind would think such a thing? I guess they've been playing too many current videogames and are used to the ludicrous amounts of bloom.

Also, a scene I forgot to criticise properly:
Spoiler

When Nero asks for the defense grid codes, I would have loved Pike to respond "What kind of incompetent organization would give one of their captains a key to unlock its defenses?!" and laugh on his face. But, alas, they went for the cliché. I was half expecting him to blurt out in a monotone "The key code is..... One..... Two.... Three.... Four..... Five"

[phred]

Of course he reprogrammed the Kobayashi-Maru. How else was he supposed to beat it? Every reference ever made to it implies that it's unwinnable, which is the point. To see how you deal with failure.

Kirk deals with it by cheating. It's a running gag through the movies.