Star Trek: Discovery

[Prometheus Unbound]

Are you serious? The design of the animal is the same. The animations are nearly the same. The basic concept is the same.

It's a tartigrade. Of course it looks the same. They all look like that.

BTW why are you so ardently defending STD?

Perhaps because you're wildly over-reacting to a TV show? Because it's good.

[Thanas]

It's a tartigrade. Of course it looks the same. They all look like that.

Yes and they just happen to have similar lightspeed moves as well.

Perhaps because you're wildly over-reacting to a TV show? Because it's good.

What about the show is good?

[Prometheus Unbound]

What about the show is good?

Thanas, grow up. You've been a mod here long enough. Stop baiting. You obviously fuckin hate this show. And that's fine. Your issue is, you're angry you don't get to enjoy it so you spend your time trying to make others not enjoy it, to share your misery.

I like the show. I like lots of things about the show. I like the characters, the story lines, the acting and so far, the plot. I'm not amazed by the Intro but that's what skip buttons are for.

I'm sure you'll want to point out why I'm wrong and why I also need to detest the show, just like you, but I'm going to continue enjoying it. I'm genuinely sorry for you that you can't get any enjoyment out Discovery, but that's your issue, not mine. If you want to waste energy on being angry at a TV show you don't even like, that's your business. If you want to spend your time typing messages to fans explaining why they're wrong, that's also your business. But it's also a little bit sad.

[Thanas]

What about the show is good?

Thanas, grow up. You've been a mod here long enough. Stop baiting. You obviously fuckin hate this show. And that's fine. Your issue is, you're angry you don't get to enjoy it so you spend your time trying to make others not enjoy it, to share your misery.

>flames others about baiting
>commits mutliple ad hominems and posts flamebait in the same paragraph
>obviously is too stupid to recognize the irony in that

I like the show. I like lots of things about the show. I like the characters, the story lines, the acting and so far, the plot. I'm not amazed by the Intro but that's what skip buttons are for.

I'm sure you'll want to point out why I'm wrong and why I also need to detest the show, just like you, but I'm going to continue enjoying it. I'm genuinely sorry for you that you can't get any enjoyment out Discovery, but that's your issue, not mine. If you want to waste energy on being angry at a TV show you don't even like, that's your business. If you want to spend your time typing messages to fans explaining why they're wrong, that's also your business. But it's also a little bit sad.

What about the show is objectively good? Just saying "I like this" when you can give no reason for it other than blind adulation does not make you a fan, it makes you an unthinking glue-eating potato. Can you even give a few examples of this show competently executing a storyline or is your entire purposse here a giant "Waah leave me alone". If so, why do you feel the need to post "BUT YOU ARE WRONG" to every critical post in this thread?

[Prometheus Unbound]

What about the show is objectively good?

Nothing. It's entertainment / art. It's subjective by definition.

You really don't like anyone enjoying this show do you? It's like preschool where the class has all been given new toys to play with, but you don't like yours, so you throw it away. Fine. You can do that. But then you go up to all the other kids and try to tell them why they should throw theirs away too. When some of the kids tell you they like playing with the toy, you get angry and start demanding they explain in detail what it is they like about the toy.

Again, I feel genuinely sorry for you that you either can't or won't like the show, but I don't understand your incessant need to try and bring down the show for everyone else. It's such a selfish position to take - to try to ruin something for others, because you're not having a good time.

[Patroklos]

If you are unwilling to discuss why its bad OR why its good, get the fuck are you interjecting yourself into the ongoing discussion?

[Prometheus Unbound]

If you are unwilling to discuss why its bad OR why its good, get the fuck are you interjecting yourself into the ongoing discussion?

I've been talking all over the thread. I didn't come in to it today lol. And I'm not unwilling to discuss anything. I just can't answer the question "What makes Star Trek Discovery objectively good?" because he used the word objectively. I can tell him why I think it's good subjectively, but that's not what he asked.

I'm here to discuss Star Trek, a show I love. If someone (Thanas in this case) has issues with the show, then I'll reply to them with my own POV. Sometimes people have questions about the plot or story or canon which if I can I'll help and answer.

What I'm not doing is trying to convince people to either like or dislike it.

My issue is people who watched the first two episodes and didn't like it. Then they watched episode 3, and didn't like that. They didn't like episode 4 or 5 either. That's fine. Not everyone likes every show. But then they keep watching it, hating it, the plot, the story, the characters, the actors, the setting etc - they still watch it, getting angrier and angrier about it. And then come and post about it in Star Trek threads. I don't like Seinfeld. I don't go in to Seinfeld threads and try to explain to people why they need to stop liking the show. It's so pointless.

For the record, I don't think the show is perfect. But any niggles I have, aside from one, are "meh, whatever". Ships look different? Meh. Klingons look different? Meh. Holograms in 2250s? Meh. Burnham is not 100% likeable? Good!

My only major issue has been when Lorca did the jump above the colony and then sat there instead of firing weapons. It seemed a stupid tactical decision but hey ho. That's the only time I've talked to my computer screen out loud in STD. "What are you doing?"

Other tiny niggles are: Phaser shots in space - too quick, too small. Was kinda hard to see what was happening in the wide shots of the big battles. And... the Federation Court Room which looked like something out of 1984. That was a very un-Federationy court room.

But those bits aside, I don't really have any complaints. This is the issue with subjective and objective. To me, I like the new Klingon designs and I don't mind it doesn't match what we see in TNG. However some people will take great issue with it, and will find it destructive to the show or their enjoyment.

If you wanna know what I like:

The sets, the music (barring the opening theme tune which I find bland but w/e), the acting, the plots (pretty much). They're sticking to major canon whilst fiddling with small bits. I like Burnham as a character. She'll have an interesting arc. I like the makeup. I like Tilly. I liked the Tartigrade, he was cute. Stamets is awesome. Doctor dude is cute =) ... I like the subterfuge and spying angles. I get a lot of DS9 vibes from the show so far, mixed with some Event Horizon. I like the camera work, the direction and lighting. I like the uniforms. And I'm excited for the story arc with Voq.

[CetaMan]

Good is all relative, the DS9 Vibes that some people like personally piss me off, we should get mostly TOS with some enterprise vibes, right now feels too advanced.

[Burak Gazan]

Are you fucking kidding me??
Dropping THAT name? They have the balls to do that....
Well, that pretty much makes it an official reboot and retconn

[tezunegari]

Are you fucking kidding me??
Dropping THAT name? They have the balls to do that....
Well, that pretty much makes it an official reboot and retconn

Who? What? Where? Why?!

[Burak Gazan]

It's not only a retconn
I'm sure some people would be squeeing or something equally retarded over hearing the Enterprise Name-Dropped, but it's just words.
And we see now, that they have shown the Vulcans to be racist assholes, and Sarek to be a fucking scumbag. Sure. He's absolutely going to think of that fucking piece of shit Mikey instead of Amanda, or Spock as his death approaches. Thanks for shitting in our faces again, writers.
And Lorca? Part of me wants to believe he WASN'T hoping the meeting to be a trap. But based on what was going to happen if that Admiral came back, I can't . He didn't have anything to do with it. But come on. A 5-year old can write better than this

[Q99]

My issue is people who watched the first two episodes and didn't like it. Then they watched episode 3, and didn't like that. They didn't like episode 4 or 5 either. That's fine. Not everyone likes every show. But then they keep watching it, hating it, the plot, the story, the characters, the actors, the setting etc - they still watch it, getting angrier and angrier about it. And then come and post about it in Star Trek threads.

Yes, this is a good point.

Not on this, but elsewhere I found a discussion on a webcomic I like. It mostly gets good reviews. I found one place that didn't like it, and I engaged them. And... it's got a couple people who clearly disliked it from the start, and it's mostly complaining about how it's not a different genre or not going to do (or, oddly, sometimes convinced it's going to do something off-genre). They said they enjoyed making fun of it, but they didn't really seem to, y'know?

There comes a point when it's best to say, "Ok, I may hate this, but it's also time to admit it's not for me and step away." Even if something actually bad, most people are better off disengaging.



If it's clearly not fitting with other trek continuities and themes in a particular person's view? It's not going to suddenly *start* doing so, so tune out, switch to trek reruns and Orville, and don't watch the episodes if it bugs you!

[Burak Gazan]

If it was not free, I would not be watching a frame
I honestly want to see just how bad and far off course they are going to drag the universe.
It would probably work, and be less disliked, if they had set it in a different time. Stop insisting it's the TOS-verse. Pissing down my back and telling me it's raining, is NOT going to fucking garner favour. Ever

[Q99]

If it was not free, I would not be watching a frame
I honestly want to see just how bad and far off course they are going to drag the universe.
It would probably work, and be less disliked, if they had set it in a different time. Stop insisting it's the TOS-verse. Pissing down my back and telling me it's raining, is NOT going to fucking garner favour. Ever

But they aren't going to say, 'ok, it's not' until, at least, the season ends, so given that, I strongly suspect things will only get progressively less fun for you.

I think it was a stupid as heck thing for them to say given how things have gone, but I think the best options now are either accepting the marketing is wrong and treating it as another alt timeline, or washing hands of it.

[Burak Gazan]

Flat-out lying to your fans, MORE THAN ONCE, is not a really smart move. Nor is it a precipice you can get off of. How the fucking hell, do you explain THAT shit?? That talking trek thing is on later, and I want to look in, since never saw it on since the pilot. Just how bad is the liesplaining? It is stupid. And anyone with a brain in the production, should have said something. But they chose to be different, and lie like dogs, so here we are.

[Q99]

And that is why I think you shouldn't watch it.

Onion AV club has an article, where the writer says they really can't take it on it's own terms because the trek references keep on reminding them how much it diverges from the series it's referencing.

It's interesting how the critics ratings diverge so hard from the general internet response. I think a lot of pro critics who initially reviewed it really are divorcing it from Trek pretty well or weren't big trek fans going in, while other articles and a lot of discussion I see have problems with it's base approach.

[Imperial Overlord]

So I'm going to throw up some thoughts about "Choose Your Pain" before discussion of the next episode takes over.

-They can come up with some good episode titles. Unfortunately, it also shows how bad they are at actually writing the damn episode. "Choose your pain," is only ever a name drop in this episode. The first time it happens its done bu Mudd to a character we don't know and aren't invested in. The second time it happens its just a trick. The episode is named after a physical and moral challenge that the characters never have to face.

-The NotD-7. It's not a D-7 and Enterprise clearly established it was using something like The Final Reflection's linneage of Klingon vessels using new and more capable variation of the same basic design. We even saw them on screen. So the D-7 has to look like a D-7. It's not a general classification of roughly similar Klingon vessels but a specific design. Having a crew compliment of 30 or 40 is also ridiculous. On the plus side, the design actually looks Klingon and reasonably good.

-Mudd being a spy. The Klingons don't need Mudd's help to bug their own cells so the logical point of this reveal would be instead to portray it as one of the ways the Klingons force their prisoners to turn on each other instead of Mudd is a terrible dirtbag for being terrorized by Klingon torturers.

-Leaving Mudd behind. Mudd's a prisoner on a Klingon ship, a fate so terrible that Lorca chooses to kill his own crew rather than let it happen to them. Trapped on a ship where most people don't make it to 6 months and forced by his captors to choose victims for brutal beatings, Mudd tries to survive. He's a selfish and untrustworthy man, but this is literally blaming the survivor of a prison camp for the actions of the sadistic guards.

-Saru being a dick about the tardigrade. It would have been fine if he said something like "do what you can, but the spore drive is our only hope of saving the captain and I will use it" or something to that effect. Being dismissive of the concerns about the tardigrade's health only makes him look arrogant and stupid. It was nice to see his hunter-prey sensitivity allowing him to discern what was going on with the attack ships.

-Those Klingon attack ships were terrible and look like they were stolen from Lexx.

-Following up the weak looking pew-pews of the space battle and ineffectiveness of the phasers against the tardigrade, it was nice to see the Klingon disruptors straight out disintegrating dudes in a devastating fashion and causing nasty collateral damage from a near miss.

-The "fucking cool" line was well done and appropriate. Star Trek shouldn't sound like Al Swearengen's bar, but emphatically saying some science is cool is well within the bounds.

-They seem to be pushing the Klingons in the direction of cartoonishly evil, instead of multilayered and interesting.

[tezunegari]

Just finished "Lethe":
Spoiler

- there are logic extremists who consider the Federation a failed experiment and humans inferior to vulcans (I'd like to hear their logical argumentation for that)

- There are holodecks on the Discovery. Big enough for two and seemingly part of security training, but they are rather advanced. Prototype?

- Lorca makes Tyler his new Chief of Security... because he need's people he trusts.

- Admiral chews him out for his actions, including a mutineer, taking in a POW without debriefing/treatment, lying on his psych eval after being captured & tortured himself

- Admiral threatens to take away the Discovery... and we might just have seen the first glimps of the real Lora (not the Captain's mask he wears)

- Sareks secret mission was predictable, as well as its outcome

- And we learn why the Federation will surpass the Klingon Empire in the Future. These boneheads (literally) are killing the people who are trying to help them

- The face of the Admiral when her guards were killed was hilarious. "Oh shit. And I just told Lorca to follow the rules until I come back to releave him of command."
-

[Mange]

It's not only a retconn
I'm sure some people would be squeeing or something equally retarded over hearing the Enterprise Name-Dropped, but it's just words.
And we see now, that they have shown the Vulcans to be racist assholes, and Sarek to be a fucking scumbag. Sure. He's absolutely going to think of that fucking piece of shit Mikey instead of Amanda, or Spock as his death approaches. Thanks for shitting in our faces again, writers.
And Lorca? Part of me wants to believe he WASN'T hoping the meeting to be a trap. But based on what was going to happen if that Admiral came back, I can't . He didn't have anything to do with it. But come on. A 5-year old can write better than this

Well, we did see some antipathy against humans from some Vulcans in ST: Enterprise and V'latak sounded a bit like the Syrrannites from Enterprise. But yes, the writing isn't the best.

[Otacon30]

https://i.imgur.com/33v4L8V.jpg

[bilateralrope]

My notes
- Tyler's mother was killed by a 'rogue comet'. Does anyone in the Federation watch for things approaching them ?
- "You fight like a Klingon" seems like a compliment if you go by Klingon reputation. An insult if you look at how well they fight in STD.

Now for two pieces of production incompetence:
- Klingons like jumping down from the ceiling, despite there being no hole for them to jump in through.
- One shot of the shuttle the admiral was leaving on showed the ramp down. Next shot, a few seconds later, had no ramp.

- There are holodecks on the Discovery. Big enough for two and seemingly part of security training, but they are rather advanced. Prototype?

The Enterprise D holodeck felt like a prototype in early seasons. It got upgraded. It had matter leaving the holodeck, which suggests it was using a lot more replicated matter than later holodecks.

- Sareks secret mission was predictable, as well as its outcome

Question is, would Sarek say that the remote chance of it not being a trap was worth the risk ?

[bilateralrope]

And that is why I think you shouldn't watch it.

Onion AV club has an article, where the writer says they really can't take it on it's own terms because the trek references keep on reminding them how much it diverges from the series it's referencing.

It's interesting how the critics ratings diverge so hard from the general internet response. I think a lot of pro critics who initially reviewed it really are divorcing it from Trek pretty well or weren't big trek fans going in, while other articles and a lot of discussion I see have problems with it's base approach.

Can STD stand on its own ?

Or would it leave too much unexplained to a viewer who has never seen Star Trek before ?

For example, Vulcans. If a viewer has never watched ST before, would STD Vulcans come across as aliens or racist humans ?

[houser2112]

And that is why I think you shouldn't watch it.

Onion AV club has an article, where the writer says they really can't take it on it's own terms because the trek references keep on reminding them how much it diverges from the series it's referencing.

It's interesting how the critics ratings diverge so hard from the general internet response. I think a lot of pro critics who initially reviewed it really are divorcing it from Trek pretty well or weren't big trek fans going in, while other articles and a lot of discussion I see have problems with it's base approach.

Can STD stand on its own ?

Or would it leave too much unexplained to a viewer who has never seen Star Trek before ?

STD can stand on its own. There are callbacks to previous series, but I don't think you would be hampered in understanding the plot if you didn't get the references.

For example, Vulcans. If a viewer has never watched ST before, would STD Vulcans come across as aliens or racist humans ?

Both. Although the most human-like of the non-humans the show depicts, they are definitely different enough to be considered "aliens", with their strict adherence to logic and suppression of emotions. The latest episode really highlights their bigotry, as well.

[tezunegari]

I am just watching "Choose your pain" again and there is a small detail that points further at Ash Tyler being Voq.

When Ash first appears in the cell he has a small darkish scar under his left eye, in the same place that Burnham poked bloody during the her fight with Voq.

[darth_timon]

What about the show is good?

Thanas, grow up. You've been a mod here long enough. Stop baiting. You obviously fuckin hate this show. And that's fine. Your issue is, you're angry you don't get to enjoy it so you spend your time trying to make others not enjoy it, to share your misery.

>flames others about baiting
>commits mutliple ad hominems and posts flamebait in the same paragraph
>obviously is too stupid to recognize the irony in that

I like the show. I like lots of things about the show. I like the characters, the story lines, the acting and so far, the plot. I'm not amazed by the Intro but that's what skip buttons are for.

I'm sure you'll want to point out why I'm wrong and why I also need to detest the show, just like you, but I'm going to continue enjoying it. I'm genuinely sorry for you that you can't get any enjoyment out Discovery, but that's your issue, not mine. If you want to waste energy on being angry at a TV show you don't even like, that's your business. If you want to spend your time typing messages to fans explaining why they're wrong, that's also your business. But it's also a little bit sad.

What about the show is objectively good? Just saying "I like this" when you can give no reason for it other than blind adulation does not make you a fan, it makes you an unthinking glue-eating potato. Can you even give a few examples of this show competently executing a storyline or is your entire purposse here a giant "Waah leave me alone". If so, why do you feel the need to post "BUT YOU ARE WRONG" to every critical post in this thread?

What, in your view, would constitute a competent plot execution, what is ‘objectively good’ and how is it different from an opinion?