Star Trek 09 review thread

[JME2]

A detail that just occured to me that I liked about the movie is that when Kirk stunned the one Romulan with his phaser, the emitter on the gun physically changed emitter heads when going between kill and stun. That was a nice touch.

Yeah. I also like the redesigned phaser discharges for the individual sidearms and ship-mounted emitters.

[Ubiquitous]

Just watched it again and only have one more thing to add: I think Kirk spent half of the film getting his arse kicked, but he certainly was pretty bad arse. Just a shame his shirt didn't get ripped at some point!

[Junghalli]

I thought it was both a good review and an amusing one, but Lane is an acquired taste.

I think it made some good points, especially about Kirk's characterization.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I watched it with my mom as a Mother's Day gift. Now, my mom was the person who got me into Trek (she's by no means a die-hard fan, but she watched it when it was on). This is the first time she's been to see a movie since Fellowship of the Ring, and the FIFTH time she's been in a theater since The Fugitive- Think about that one for a moment. She thought it was great fun; A positive viewing experience, though the ice monster was a bit too scary for her.

I loved it, and I have to say I can actually buy Kirk's command being left in-tact considering;

1. He scored off the charts for command potential.
2. Starfleet just lost 6 ships and their captains.
3. The Federation just lost Vulcan, and everyone's going to be wanting a piece.
4. THE MAN FROM THE FUTURE says that Kirk is going to be one of the greatest captains in history.
5. Kirk's plan to save earth worked.

All those things together, its not a HUGE stretch, and it could even be that Spock told them 'If you don't leave his commission, I'm not telling you what's coming'. Just my $.02.

[SylasGaunt]

I'm pretty sure saving the world from something that trashed every fleet it came up against with just one ship would have been enough on its own.. or at least should be enough.

[Stark]

I'm pretty sure saving the world from something that trashed every fleet it came up against with just one ship would have been enough on its own.. or at least should be enough.

Why?

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm pretty sure saving the world from something that trashed every fleet it came up against with just one ship would have been enough on its own.. or at least should be enough.

Why?

Saved. The. Earth.

Really, what part aren't you getting?

[Stark]

I'm pretty sure saving the world from something that trashed every fleet it came up against with just one ship would have been enough on its own.. or at least should be enough.

Why?

Saved. The. Earth.

Really, what part aren't you getting?

Grow up. Are you saying he just gets... whatever he wants? He's got 'command potential' (ps lol) and the Genie says he's great shit... but it's not even the same man the Genie is talking about. If I save a guy from a burning building, do I get to skip all the procedure to become a firefighter too? What if I catch a bankrobber?

Oh sorry I forgot you were mindlessly defending his statement from a simple request for explanation.

[CaptainChewbacca]

You're right, saving the earth probably isn't enough on its' own, but I think the five points I raised are probably enough to allow a good argument for why he'd be given command. Combine that with Pike's recommendation for a sixth point and I say the decision of giving Kirk the Enterprise at the end of the movie can be reasonably understood.

[Aaron]

Grow up. Are you saying he just gets... whatever he wants? He's got 'command potential' (ps lol) and the Genie says he's great shit... but it's not even the same man the Genie is talking about. If I save a guy from a burning building, do I get to skip all the procedure to become a firefighter too? What if I catch a bankrobber?

Oh sorry I forgot you were mindlessly defending his statement from a simple request for explanation.

Even if we grant that he is a "natural", we're still talking about a guy who is a cadet and would lack all the seemingly mundane but essential knowledge on how to run and command a ship. Essentially making his XO the power behind the throne, to say nothing about how bitter your entire officer corps is going to be over this. Kirk in this universe better have some powerful friends.

[Stark]

Exactly. I don't really have a problem with what happened in the movie - this shit happens all the time in fiction - but the suggestion that some deed 'should be' enough to promote someone xyz paygrades instantly. What are the qualifications for being a Fed captain?

Chewie, honestly, 'Pike's reccomendation'?

[Oskuro]

Saved. The. Earth.

Really, what part aren't you getting?

How many times did Jack O'Neill save the Earth? And yet he took his sweet time to become General

[CaptainChewbacca]

Exactly. I don't really have a problem with what happened in the movie - this shit happens all the time in fiction - but the suggestion that some deed 'should be' enough to promote someone xyz paygrades instantly. What are the qualifications for being a Fed captain?

Chewie, honestly, 'Pike's reccomendation'?

Yes, I know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but at a certain point you have to just throw your hands up and say 'Fuck it, he's Kirk'. I said you could make an ARGUMENT, not an iron-cast case for it. Without Spock around, I'd agree with you that they wouldn't make him Captain.

I heard it suggested it would have been better if Kirk had been a Starfleet washout (after a few fistfights) who was bumped to officer school by Pike and was already a lieutenant with a few years of service under his belt. The problem was, alot of this was done during the writer's strike, and couldn't be re-written.

Kendall, as for 'hoping he has a few friends', he... saved earth. I just hope he doesn't try and coast on that too much.

How many times did Jack O'Neill save the Earth? And yet he took his sweet time to become General

Jack O'Neill didn't WANT to be a general. He actually hated it.

[Stark]

Man, talking to nerds is like talking to a brick wall.

Spock isn't even talking about THIS Kirk; he's talking about HIS Kirk and HOPING that this guy will turn out the same, so his recommendation is just PR.

The idea that some guy who did something good then got massively promoted over the heads of others will be well-liked is fucking hilarious, though.

[Aaron]

Kendall, as for 'hoping he has a few friends', he... saved earth. I just hope he doesn't try and coast on that too much.

You don't know much about the military, do you?

That aside, I think it would have been better if they had offered him his pick of posting as a LTJG and had the inevitable following movies follow his rise through the ranks.

[Stark]

It'd be interesting if the next movie had him realise he wasn't taken seriously by other officers due to the circumstances of his promotion and was being used by the Fed as a PR symbol.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Kendall, as for 'hoping he has a few friends', he... saved earth. I just hope he doesn't try and coast on that too much.

You don't know much about the military, do you?

That aside, I think it would have been better if they had offered him his pick of posting as a LTJG and had the inevitable following movies follow his rise through the ranks.

I agree, that would have been better. In a case like this, you can either say 'it makes no sense, and therefore sucks' or say 'this is how it COULD make sense'. I like to try and make things make sense.

It'd be interesting if the next movie had him realise he wasn't taken seriously by other officers due to the circumstances of his promotion and was being used by the Fed as a PR symbol.

That's actually what I was kinda hoping. 'Oh, sure, "Captain" Kirk, verrrrry impressive'.

[Aaron]

It'd be interesting if the next movie had him realise he wasn't taken seriously by other officers due to the circumstances of his promotion and was being used by the Fed as a PR symbol.

That would be an excellent idea. What I would actually expect is for him to be on endless PR junkets around the Federation, doing dog and pony shows and boosting recruiting.

I agree, that would have been better. In a case like this, you can either say 'it makes no sense, and therefore sucks' or say 'this is how it COULD make sense'. I like to try and make things make sense.

Of course, I don't actually expect fiction to make RL sense. I just expect it to make sense IU and there's plenty of precedence in Trek for this.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Of course, I don't actually expect fiction to make RL sense. I just expect it to make sense IU and there's plenty of precedence in Trek for this.

And remember, Kirk has gotten stripped of command in past movies, I can imagine him punching some ambassador after getting fed up during his 216th 'Vulcan Colonial Benefit' dinner and winding up a Lt. Junior Grade. The problem in making this movie was they almost HAD to end up with a 'Captain Kirk' at the end. I think making him a Lieutenant-Commander at the end and Pike's XO would've been a fine ending, but that's how it goes.

[Stark]

That would be an excellent idea. What I would actually expect is for him to be on endless PR junkets around the Federation, doing dog and pony shows and boosting recruiting.

You could even make it central to the plot; the Enterprise has attracted excellent cadets, but Kirk isn't taken seriously and when Danger Threatens the more established officers in Starfleet see his reports as alarmism or an attempt to recapture his faded celebrity.

[speaker-to-trolls]

This stuff about Kirks unusually quick promotion has reminded me of something I didn't really understand in the movie: Uhura looked like a cadet at the time they left for Vulcan, she was wearing the cadets uniform and still seemed to be living in a university accomodation setup, but when they leave then she's a lieutenant, indicating she's been a full officer for some time, and she was decoding Klingon transmissions in the academy, which seems a bit advanced for cadets.
Honestly is there a problem with these facts or do I just not understand something about the military?

[Aaron]

This stuff about Kirks unusually quick promotion has reminded me of something I didn't really understand in the movie: Uhura looked like a cadet at the time they left for Vulcan, she was wearing the cadets uniform and still seemed to be living in a university accomodation setup, but when they leave then she's a lieutenant, indicating she's been a full officer for some time, and she was decoding Klingon transmissions in the academy, which seems a bit advanced for cadets.
Honestly is there a problem with these facts or do I just not understand something about the military?

*Note that I haven't seen it yet.

If she's a communications officer (SF seems to smash a bunch of roles together), then she has to learn to decode somehow. What better way then to do it with actual transmissions? Granted, it would likely be done with stuff they already have on file rather then anything they just intercepted.

As for the cadet uniform, perhaps she had just graduated?

[Schuyler Colfax]

This stuff about Kirks unusually quick promotion has reminded me of something I didn't really understand in the movie: Uhura looked like a cadet at the time they left for Vulcan, she was wearing the cadets uniform and still seemed to be living in a university accomodation setup, but when they leave then she's a lieutenant, indicating she's been a full officer for some time, and she was decoding Klingon transmissions in the academy, which seems a bit advanced for cadets.
Honestly is there a problem with these facts or do I just not understand something about the military?

What I got from that scene was that all the Cadets received field promotions upon being loaded onto the reserve fleet to go check out Vulcan. Pike was just reminding Uhura of the fact on the bridge, that this is serious business and that you're all in the true military now.

[Simplicius]

I went to see it last night with my girlfriend. Neither of us are devoted Star Trek fans, though I have seen four TOS-cast movies to her one.

I thought it was a fun SPACE ACTION MOVIE IN SPACE. I was looking forward to seeing it because I hadn't been to a space adventure movie since Revenge of the Sith back in '05 and it was about time for another, and I must say that Star Trek did it well. I don't think it's a great movie, but it was an enjoyable film to watch, and I don't begrudge any of the cost of the ticket.

The characters for the most part were well-handled. The fellow playing McCoy could be fairly called a ringer for (a younger) DeForrest Kelley - looks, mannerisms, and lines all pointed directly back at Old Bones. His was the only character who seemed to me to be as close as possible to his TOS predecessor, as the other actors all employed greater or lesser degrees of interpretation. My only quibble with Young McCoy is that the script poured on the McCoy-Spock rivalry too fast and too thick - I got the impression that Spock was unknown to McCoy as of the Kobayashi Maru hearing, yet we get "green-blooded hobgoblin" only shortly thereafter. One might think that McCoy might have given Spock a bit of leeway for having a stick up his ass at first if he knew the least thing about Vulcans, unless McCoy had a congenital dislike of Vulcans for some reason, which the film ought then to have established.

Young Spock was probably the next most solid of the new cast - different, of course, but I bought his character. I felt that Spock's youth was well-handled, with a very faintly smug and cocksure Logical Spock hinting at less-than-perfect emotional control, which was subsequently revealed. It could have been much, much worse, for certain. If I had to pick one character who actually developed over the course of the film, it would be Spock; he has a definite trajectory of personality from his temperamental childhood in the beginning to when he has learned his first real lessons about managing his emotions and accepting human idiosyncrasies from Sarek and Kirk by the end.

Kirk, alas, could have been much better than he was. The Lane review said it, but I'm going to say it too: Kirk had too much of the Standard Bad-Ass Hero in him. That kind of characterization would be expected during the 'troubled youth' part of the film, but it wasn't noticeably developed over the course of the movie because, being the Bad-Ass Hero, he triumphed - and, being the Bad-Ass Hero, his triumph was never really in doubt. The film gave me no reason to assume that any of Kirk's experiences tempered his youthful arrogance we see at the beginning, not least because his cockiness carried (and saved) the day. He had two lines, though - and I wish I could remember what they were; one was very short - that broke from Bad-Ass Kirk and were delivered as one might expect an adult Kirk to speak. He didn't ape Shatner, but he had the attitude right: confident, assertive, but with gravitas enough to suggest that somewhere underneath the seriousness of the situation was clear and the outcome was in doubt. That was the Kirk Moment, and it was a pity it was so fleeting because it felt like a solid payoff after seeing Bad-Ass Kirk elsewhere. Really, with a bit more delivery like that and a less-generic Young Kirk, the character would have worked very well. As it was, Kirk was the short leg of the Kirk-Spock-McCoy tripod.

Nero was simply underutilized. Other people have said it here as well, but as long at they were taking the time to lift a revenge plot from Wrath of Khan, they ought to have lifted some development of the villain as well. Because we got so little information from Nero and about Nero from Nero's point of view, he's easily tarred as a Villain of the Day, which is frankly a shame. He had personal, emotional motivations for wanting to take his revenge, and it's not hard to make a solid character out of that, but the film was so unsympathetic to him that he came off as a guy who totally overreacted to a natural disaster that someone else didn't even cause, but merely failed to stop. As such, the need to destroy him at all costs went totally unquestioned, and *yawn*...

The supporting cast were varying degrees of good. Uhura was solid and believable and Chekhov started on somewhat shaky ground but was taken more seriously as he was given more to do (and I can even forgive the voice access joke, though it was a bit hamhanded). The choice to play Scott as rather befuddled didn't feel very right, but it's understandable given how he found himself transplanted into the group of core characters, and so spent all his time aboard Enterprise in the film as the newbie, and doubtless a bit eccentric from his time at the research station. I don't really know what to make of Sulu: he's "very much" a pilot yet forgets to take Enterprise out of Park, but his only combat experience is "fencing" (a line that didn't scan as sarcastic or deliberately understated) yet he's an adept combat swordsman. I'm not at all sure what, if anything, they were attempting to do with his character, or if they were trying to do anything at all beyond make sure Enterprise had a reason to arrive at Vulcan after the other ships.

Some of the humor was not bad while some was unnecessary. While I felt that Scott in particular carried a bit more of it than he ought, no characters were entirely wasted on being comedic, and therefore the main problem with making sure a movie has some humor was sidestepped.

My main small peeve was the camera work. The jittery cam didn't work well, and there were at least a couple of occasions where it was plain even to me that stabilized yet dynamic camera work would have conveyed action and tension just as well as shaking the damn thing all over the place. The gross excess of lens flare was also really irritating, not only because there was far more than good taste demanded, but because it was entirely inappropriate. How the hell does it help an immersive movie-going experience to be constantly reminded that you are looking at things through a camera? How? And why, when so many special-effects shots are entirely digital, are these disruptive and undesirable artifacts added, to deliberately screw things all up? Jesus.

I also have a concern about how successful Star Trek will be as a franchise reboot. On the one hand, having established a rather successful new movie, a logical next step would be to make some links (besides just having the same cast) between this and the next movie or few, so that what is going on in this new Star Trek universe is established, and the audience gets a sense of continuity. It's a bit of world-building that I think is necessary for the new universe to successfully establish itself with the audience without needing much if any knowledge of the previous Trek universes. My concern comes from the fact that this movie didn't really rule out that any sequels would basically be generic Fight the Big Bad one-offs, which from what I read was one of the problems with the TNG-era movies and the whole of Star Trek getting increasingly stale. Only the sequel(s) will tell, I suppose.

For the record, Marie thought it was a very fun time as well, though she remarked that it "felt like someone sat down to write some high school AU fanfiction."

[Gil Hamilton]

You don't know much about the military, do you?

That aside, I think it would have been better if they had offered him his pick of posting as a LTJG and had the inevitable following movies follow his rise through the ranks.

If there was a situation where a young officer somehow legally ended up in command of a vessel in real life and during the course of his actions very publically saved the lives of every single person in the United States or Canada, you don't think the real life military would let him stay a captain at the end of it?

Kirk managed to assume the role of command of the Enterprise and managed to defeat an enemy that had just murdered six billion Federation citizens on Vulcan and was about to do the same thing to Earth. At the time he was the acting Captain of the ship, since Spock had given up the position. I don't think it's THAT unreasonable when all is said and done that the field promotion would stick, particularly if Pike was in no shape to resume command. After all, Kirk had just become the hero of the Federation and the Enterprise was out a commander and a XO anyway.