No Germans In Star Trek?!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-20 05:01pm

Seggybop wrote:I don't think the ST writers are smart enough to think of having each race associated with a country, you're giving them too much credit

I think GR might have been smart enough. B&B are too ignorant of the real world, but they're just playing off the stereotypes that existed before anyway.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Do Vulcans take showers? If they do, then they're not very French to me.

All the French people I know shower regularly. The whole not showering thing is an old myth. It may have been true back in the early 20th century, when it was also true of many parts of the US.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-01-21 01:14pm

Kurgan wrote:Note also how the Federation is portrayed as being racially and culturally "diverse" (open, complex, tolerant) whereas most of the alien races are portrayed as being monocultural and homogenious (weighted down by tradition, set in their ways, intolerant)... much like the Western impression of the various nations I mentioned above.

Or the post-1960s leftist interpretation of those who aren't leftist. lol

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2003-01-24 04:17pm

*scratches head*
If we look at the characters in the shows so far and where they come from, there actually are none of at least German heritage at all. The same goes for onscreen-mentioned ships.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2003-01-25 12:28am

The same goes for Jews.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-25 04:16am

Maybe all the Germans serve in the Shadow Fleet?

"... These are the adventures of the Stern-Schlachtkreuser Seydlitz
on a five year mission of conquest....

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2003-01-25 05:15am

Baron Mordo wrote:The same goes for Jews.

Hey, they had Ralph Oppenhouse.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-25 05:33am

Frank Hipper wrote:Maybe all the Germans serve in the Shadow Fleet?

"... These are the adventures of the Stern-Schlachtkreuser Seydlitz
on a five year mission of conquest....

"...to seek out new life and enslave it, to boldly conquer where no man has conquered before..."

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-01-25 11:25am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Maybe all the Germans serve in the Shadow Fleet?

"... These are the adventures of the Stern-Schlachtkreuser Seydlitz
on a five year mission of conquest....
"...to seek out new life and enslave it, to boldly conquer where no man has conquered before..."

change boldly to bloody

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2003-01-25 11:41am

Frank Hipper wrote:Maybe all the Germans serve in the Shadow Fleet?

"... These are the adventures of the Stern-Schlachtkreuser Seydlitz
on a five year mission of conquest....

You mean the fkeet that's so shadowy that it's never used? :p

Sounds like a great job.

"You are the best of the best!"
"We are the best of the best, Herr Kapitän!"
"You'll kick Alien asses all over the quadrant!"
"We'll kick- wait, when will we do so, Herr Kapitän?"
"Sometime we will, son, some time we will..."

:p

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-01-25 01:36pm

They're just waiting for things to really go to shit, at which point they'll bust out their uber-ships (and you know they're "uber" cause "uber" is German! lol) and just hammer the fuck out of who ever is deserving -- then they'll look like heroes, and Earth will beg them to rule. And if not, well, Fourth Reich anyone? lol

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-25 02:59pm

Stravo wrote:Perhaps Germans, being the good engineers that they are recognized these ships for the flying death traps/bombs that they are and are staying away in droves hoping that one day SF creates a Volvo type starship.

Thats pretty much my theory.....perhaps there are entire colonies of german engineers out there that blow up starfleet ships on sight since letting them get close is a serious saftey risk.....

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-01-25 07:27pm

Or the post-1960s leftist interpretation of those who aren't leftist. lol

Probably true as well.

As to there being no Germans, there was that guy in that TOS episode mentioned previously in this thread. Trolain (the alien who obviously inspired the "Q" character) insults one of Kirk's crewmen by denigrating his German heritage (as he does with several of the landing party).

As to there being "no Jews" there are probably still Jews (ethnically, if you accept that sort of thing), but since religion in general is seen as "unenlightened" by Starfleet (notice the only really "religious" people are aliens, or the Native American tribes that live in self-imposed exile in space... of which Chakotay is a descendent), its simply being phased out of existence, unless its practiced in secret of course.

If you asked most Starfleet personel in the 24th century what religion they are, we're lead to believe, they would be agnostics or atheists.

I will qualify that by saying some of Roddenberry's secular humanism appears to have "mystical" elements (a "mystical" humanism? it's possible), in general it rejects all human religions as being corrupt, hypocritical (and therefore to be forgotten except as a passing curiosity), or totally irrelevant to life in the Federation.

Yet, it's perfectly acceptable to exploit religious belief if it furthers Federation perrogatives (note Sisko's role as the "Emissary" to the Bajorans).

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-01-25 07:34pm

He doesn't have much respect for the alien religions either, obviously:

the Vulcans worship logic and meditate to suppress emotions. they used to be a monotheistic religious society, but abandoned it in the face of "reason" long ago, along with their violent urges (so they claim).

the Klingons worship violence and are obsessed with "honor." They killed their gods long ago. Their prophet is a long-dead "hero" with no supernatural powers. Going along with the space vikings theory, they will continue to do battle in the afterlife for amusement.

the Ferengi worship money, literally. They are obsessed with finances, wealth and exploitation. Their afterlife itself is a manifestation of this and they even sell their bodies after death.

the Bajorans seem to have had better luck with their religion (liberation theology basically) but its used as a tool for political ends, which can easily be abused (note their corrupt religious leadership) and an excuse for biogotry against their enemies (including racism). They're also creationists who resist scientific education that appears to be at odds with their religion (at least that's what Vedic Win.. before she was Kai, leads us to believe). "good" Bajorans, put their religion second to cooperation with Starfleet and keeping social order.

After watching a little bit of Voyager, the Kazaan seem to be similar to the Klingons (but less developed).. basically embracing a warrior-based violence ethic of conquest and brutality.

The Borg don't seem to have a religion (you wouldn't expect them to, if they're indeed a mirror of atheist Soviet Russia). They do have a fanatacism about their superiority and the ethic of conquest however.

I don't know much about the Romulans or Cardassians in the way of religion...

If the Federation has anything like religion, it's the fanatical devotion to their "ethics" like the Prime Directive.. I guess.