Borg vs Dominion

[Lord Revan]

Actually IIRC there's at least 1 jem'hadar drone shown in canon trek and to be honest if the dependency on white can be solved Jemmies would make good tactical drones, though I've not seen Vorta drones and I suspect that their specialization is such that the borg would judge them unworthy of assimilation.

as for political bodies they're deemed irrelevant to the borg and the nations are dealt with one of three ways, if possible assimilate, if the nation (or more exact the species it comprices of) cannot be assimilated destroy them, if either of those options is not avaible wait until they become avaible.

[WATCH-MAN]

Actually IIRC there's at least 1 jem'hadar drone shown in canon trek and to be honest if the dependency on white can be solved Jemmies would make good tactical drones, though I've not seen Vorta drones and I suspect that their specialization is such that the borg would judge them unworthy of assimilation.

If there was a Jem'Hadar drone shown, it has to be assumed that the Borg are able to solve the dependency on Ketracel-White. However I can not remember to have seen an assimilated Jem'Hadar. Please provide evidence for this.

And while the Borg do have "tactical drones" who says that they want to have more or that if they are looking for a species to "recruit" more "tactical drones" that they would think of the Jem'Hadar? There may be other species which are better suited to become "tactical drones" - e.g. the Ktarian or the Hazari.

Even if the Borg are able to cure the dependence of the Jem'Hadar on their Ketracel-White or are able to supply an assimilated Jem'Hadar with Ketracel-White they still may regard this as a deficiency serious enough to be detrimental to their goal to attain perfection - especially as the Jem'Hadar seem to have a short lifespan. They are cloned to be cannon fodder.

as for political bodies they're deemed irrelevant to the borg and the nations are dealt with one of three ways, if possible assimilate, if the nation (or more exact the species it comprices of) cannot be assimilated destroy them, if either of those options is not avaible wait until they become avaible.

Please provide evidence for your claim that the Borg are destroying species they can not assimilate.

We know that the Borg do not assimilate every species. They assimilate only species with a biological and technological remarkable distinctiveness. But they do not destroy such species they regard as not worthy of assimilation.

Why are we supposed to assume that the Borg will want to destroy a species they are interested in but can not assimilate?

[Lord Revan]

Actually IIRC there's at least 1 jem'hadar drone shown in canon trek and to be honest if the dependency on white can be solved Jemmies would make good tactical drones, though I've not seen Vorta drones and I suspect that their specialization is such that the borg would judge them unworthy of assimilation.

If there was a Jem'Hadar drone shown, it has to be assumed that the Borg are able to solve the dependency on Ketracel-White. However I can not remember to have seen an assimilated Jem'Hadar. Please provide evidence for this.

And while the Borg do have "tactical drones" who says that they want to have more or that if they are looking for a species to "recruit" more "tactical drones" that they would think of the Jem'Hadar? There may be other species which are better suited to become "tactical drones" - e.g. the Ktarian or the Hazari.

Even if the Borg are able to cure the dependence of the Jem'Hadar on their Ketracel-White or are able to supply an assimilated Jem'Hadar with Ketracel-White they still may regard this as a deficiency serious enough to be detrimental to their goal to attain perfection - especially as the Jem'Hadar seem to have a short lifespan. They are cloned to be cannon fodder.

there's a reason I put IIRC there for the jemmie drone as I recall seeing one as part of scene but not as a focus and it might not have been meant to be Jem'Hadar just reuse of the same mask, I don't have Voyager on DvD so I can't check it.

as for the other part I didn't mean to imply that borg would go out of their way to assimilate Jem'Hadar for tac drones but rather that they wouldn't dismiss them as useless and I think it's implied (not sure though) that drones don't age at all so lifespan wouldn't be an issue if that's true

as for political bodies they're deemed irrelevant to the borg and the nations are dealt with one of three ways, if possible assimilate, if the nation (or more exact the species it comprices of) cannot be assimilated destroy them, if either of those options is not avaible wait until they become avaible.

Please provide evidence for your claim that the Borg are destroying species they can not assimilate.

We know that the Borg do not assimilate every species. They assimilate only species with a biological and technological remarkable distinctiveness. But they do not destroy such species they regard as not worthy of assimilation.

Why are we supposed to assume that the Borg will want to destroy a species they are interested in but can not assimilate?

[/quote]I suppose I miss remembered but IIRC they did destroy those that they couldn't assimilate but were too powerful or aggressive to ignore like the Undine.

[Prometheus Unbound]

I suppose I miss remembered but IIRC they did destroy those that they couldn't assimilate but were too powerful or aggressive to ignore like the Undine.

Other than S8472, I don't recall any species they couldn't assimilate. Some put up more than a fight than others (Humans) but they don't have difficulty in assimilating us.

And S8472 they did try to assimilate - and were still trying to do so as of Scorpion (drone repeatedly attempting it on the bioship.

[WATCH-MAN]

Lord Revan, you have tendency to make wild claims and if you are asked to provide evidence, you excuse yourself by saying that you said that it is only as far as you can remember.

Maybe the next time you want to make such a claim with such an exculpatory clause, abstain from it and look if you can find a confirmation for what you believe. If you can not find such a confirmation, simply assume that you misremember.

Otherwise you should ask yourself if you know enough about Star Trek to debate this topic. It is obviously that your perception of Star Trek is coloured by your wrong memories and maybe your bias.

Actually IIRC there's at least 1 jem'hadar drone shown in canon trek and to be honest if the dependency on white can be solved Jemmies would make good tactical drones, though I've not seen Vorta drones and I suspect that their specialization is such that the borg would judge them unworthy of assimilation.

If there was a Jem'Hadar drone shown, it has to be assumed that the Borg are able to solve the dependency on Ketracel-White. However I can not remember to have seen an assimilated Jem'Hadar. Please provide evidence for this.

And while the Borg do have "tactical drones" who says that they want to have more or that if they are looking for a species to "recruit" more "tactical drones" that they would think of the Jem'Hadar? There may be other species which are better suited to become "tactical drones" - e.g. the Ktarian or the Hazari.

Even if the Borg are able to cure the dependence of the Jem'Hadar on their Ketracel-White or are able to supply an assimilated Jem'Hadar with Ketracel-White they still may regard this as a deficiency serious enough to be detrimental to their goal to attain perfection - especially as the Jem'Hadar seem to have a short lifespan. They are cloned to be cannon fodder.

there's a reason I put IIRC there for the jemmie drone as I recall seeing one as part of scene but not as a focus and it might not have been meant to be Jem'Hadar just reuse of the same mask, I don't have Voyager on DvD so I can't check it.

as for the other part I didn't mean to imply that borg would go out of their way to assimilate Jem'Hadar for tac drones but rather that they wouldn't dismiss them as useless and I think it's implied (not sure though) that drones don't age at all so lifespan wouldn't be an issue if that's true

Please provide evidence for any implication that Borg drones do not age.

Please provide evidence that the Borg assimilate an individual only because it is not totally useless.

The Borg do assimilate a species only if their biological and technological distinctiveness is remarkable and helps the Borg to attain what they perceive as perfection. A species which biological and technological distinctiveness is unremarkable is unworthy of assimilation as the assimilation of such a species would only detract from what the Borg perceive as perfection.

as for political bodies they're deemed irrelevant to the borg and the nations are dealt with one of three ways, if possible assimilate, if the nation (or more exact the species it comprices of) cannot be assimilated destroy them, if either of those options is not avaible wait until they become avaible.

Please provide evidence for your claim that the Borg are destroying species they can not assimilate.

We know that the Borg do not assimilate every species. They assimilate only species with a biological and technological remarkable distinctiveness. But they do not destroy such species they regard as not worthy of assimilation.

Why are we supposed to assume that the Borg will want to destroy a species they are interested in but can not assimilate?

I suppose I miss remembered but IIRC they did destroy those that they couldn't assimilate but were too powerful or aggressive to ignore like the Undine.

Please provide evidence that the Borg tried to destroy Species 8472 BECAUSE they couldn't assimilate them, that their inability to assimilate Species 8472 was in any way part of the reason they tried to destroy Species 8472 - apart from the fact that if Species 8472 could be assimilated they wouldn't have been a thread to the Borg.

As far as I can remember, the Borg tried to destroy Species 8472 only because Species 8472 attacked the Borg. And even than the Borg did not try to wipe out Species 8472 - at least there is nothing that would imply this. They only pushed Species 8472 back into their fluid space.

[Prometheus Unbound]

As far as I can remember, the Borg tried to destroy Species 8472 only because Species 8472 attacked the Borg. And even than the Borg did not try to wipe out Species 8472 - at least there is nothing that would imply this. They only pushed Species 8472 back into their fluid space.

The Borg started the conflict - they invaded Fluidic space first. Whether that was to destroy them or assimilate them (I think assimilate) we don't know.

We do know it backfired and whilst they were on a war footing, they were still trying to assimilate along the way. Failed every time, but still tried.

[WATCH-MAN]

As far as I can remember, the Borg tried to destroy Species 8472 only because Species 8472 attacked the Borg. And even than the Borg did not try to wipe out Species 8472 - at least there is nothing that would imply this. They only pushed Species 8472 back into their fluid space.

The Borg started the conflict - they invaded Fluidic space first. Whether that was to destroy them or assimilate them (I think assimilate) we don't know.

We do know it backfired and whilst they were on a war footing, they were still trying to assimilate along the way. Failed every time, but still tried.

Exactly. As far as we know, the Borg did not try to destroy Species 8472 because they could not assimilate them.

There is no evidence that, if Species 8472 hadn't counter-attacked the Borg, the Borg would not have let Species 8472 alone after learning that they can not assimilate them. But after Species 8472 invaded "normal" space and attacked the Borg, they had not choice but to battle Species 8472 and - if possible - destroy any attacker.

And according to Seven of Nine, in the beginning the Borg only wanted to assimilate Species 8472. She admitted, when Janeway learned that the Borg already have been in the fluidic space, that the Borg wanted to assimilate Species 8472 as their technology is biogenically engineered and superior to that of all species they have previously encountered. They are regarded by the Borg as the apex of biological evolution and their assimilation would have greatly added to what the Borg perceive as perfection.

Although I do not know if the Borg - as a collective - really tried to assimilate Species 8472 after the war started. Sure, there was the Borg drone in in the VOY episode Scorpion who seemed to attempt to assimilate the ship of Species 8472 that was docked to the Borg cube. But that seemed to me as if it was not an attempt of the collective to try to assimilate the ship, but the attempt of a lone drone not knowing what else it should do, simply following its basic program in lieu of other orders. Somehow the damage on the Borg cube influenced the behaviour of this drone. That at least was my impression when I watched that scene.

Anyway I can not remember to have seen other attempts of the Borg to assimilate Species 8472.

[Lord Revan]

I couldn't find any evidence of Jem'hadar drones in Memory Alpha so I guess thought I'd seen them in canon Trek and not just STO, my mistake I've not seen most of Voyager in ages and don't intend to see it any time soon.

Oh and Watch-Man read what I said again, I always put IIRC in what I said which means "If I recall correctly" meaning I never meant them to absolute statements of fact but rather "I seem to remember seeing this but I could be mistaken", I think it's your bias not mine that's showing if you take my vague recolections as absolute statements.

I've never lied about the fact that my knownlage of Voyager is vague at best and outright wrong at worst.

[WATCH-MAN]

I couldn't find any evidence of Jem'hadar drones in Memory Alpha so I guess thought I'd seen them in canon Trek and not just STO, my mistake I've not seen most of Voyager in ages and don't intend to see it any time soon.

Oh and Watch-Man read what I said again, I always put IIRC in what I said which means "If I recall correctly" meaning I never meant them to absolute statements of fact but rather "I seem to remember seeing this but I could be mistaken", I think it's your bias not mine that's showing if you take my vague recolections as absolute statements.

I've never lied about the fact that my knownlage of Voyager is vague at best and outright wrong at worst.

If you know that you may not remember correctly, you should try to find a confirmation.

It happens to often that you make wild claims with this or a similar exculpatory clause.

And if you are not interested in watching Voyager and learn more about it, refrain from debating it.

Only an idiot would debate a topic from which he even admits that he does not know much about and is not interested in learning more about it.

[Simon_Jester]

Actually IIRC there's at least 1 jem'hadar drone shown in canon trek and to be honest if the dependency on white can be solved Jemmies would make good tactical drones, though I've not seen Vorta drones and I suspect that their specialization is such that the borg would judge them unworthy of assimilation.

Did they ever entirely drop the idea that some Vorta have psychic abilities? That is something the Borg might be interested in.

Also, the Founders themselves are seemingly unique in our galaxy what with being liquid-form shapeshifters. It beggars the imagination the Borg aren't interested in that, if they know of it.

[Lord Revan]

Actually IIRC there's at least 1 jem'hadar drone shown in canon trek and to be honest if the dependency on white can be solved Jemmies would make good tactical drones, though I've not seen Vorta drones and I suspect that their specialization is such that the borg would judge them unworthy of assimilation.

Did they ever entirely drop the idea that some Vorta have psychic abilities? That is something the Borg might be interested in.

I'm not sure I should reply to this as I don't have the scripts of every single DS9 episode right here, but as far as I can remember it something unique to that one female Vorta and no other Vorta seen displayed or implied to have telekinectic powers.

Shame Trek DvDs are so expensive or I'd get DS9 (hell I might get VOY and ENT if they weren't 130 euros per season (or at least were last I've checked))

[Batman]

Not that I see why you should be required to spend oodles of money on TV series you really would rather not watch (for very good reasons in the case of VOY and ENT, I actually think DS) is the best of TNG era Trek) for the sake of a silly online debate, but have you looked into netflix, amazon Prime or similar online programs as may be available where you live?

[Lord Revan]

I actually like DS9, but I would like VOY and ENT of completions sake if they weren't so darn expensive as for Netflix it's avaible but I rather short of avaible funds so that's not really an option.

It's more the case if I need to choose between DS9 DvD/blue-rays or food, food always wins.

To be honest I would never buy something like just to win an internet argument, however both Voyager and Enterprise have some episodes I'd like rewatch if I could afford it (Scorpion from Voyager or the Vulcan arc from ENT season 4 come to mind right of the bat and there's more as well).

[Prometheus Unbound]

They never mentioned the psionic abilities again.

[Tribble]

Nor do they mention being able to beam through shields to a ship outside fed sensor range again, though it's probable that the feds were able to adapt their shields to prevent that. Same with the Borg now that I think of it.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Nor do they mention being able to beam through shields to a ship outside fed sensor range again, though it's probable that the feds were able to adapt their shields to prevent that. Same with the Borg now that I think of it.

No, Dukat did that in Covenant (used a Dominion beam as well) and beamed from DS9 to Empok Nor which was 3 lightyears away. That's where we get the lower limit of their range from.

Did Dukat use it to beam on the station in Tears of the Prophets as well?

EDIT: yes, yes he did.


Done it three times at least.

[WATCH-MAN]

Nor do they mention being able to beam through shields to a ship outside fed sensor range again, though it's probable that the feds were able to adapt their shields to prevent that. Same with the Borg now that I think of it.

No, Dukat did that in Covenant (used a Dominion beam as well) and beamed from DS9 to Empok Nor which was 3 lightyears away. That's where we get the lower limit of their range from.

Did Dukat use it to beam on the station in Tears of the Prophets as well?

EDIT: yes, yes he did.


Done it three times at least.

Please provide evidence that in both instances Dukat beamed through shields.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Nor do they mention being able to beam through shields to a ship outside fed sensor range again, though it's probable that the feds were able to adapt their shields to prevent that. Same with the Borg now that I think of it.

No, Dukat did that in Covenant (used a Dominion beam as well) and beamed from DS9 to Empok Nor which was 3 lightyears away. That's where we get the lower limit of their range from.

Did Dukat use it to beam on the station in Tears of the Prophets as well?

EDIT: yes, yes he did.


Done it three times at least.

Please provide evidence that in both instances Dukat beamed through shields.

whoops, concentrated more on the "outside sensor range" bit.

They could beam through shields up until season 5 - after that the Federation seems to have found a way around it ("Call to Arms").

[Mr Hugh Mann]

I feel that Borg behavior with regards to their assimilation habits are a bit mis-understood. Let us assume that the Borg are ruthlessly utilitarian, they seek out those entities with technological or biological distinctiveness likely to contribute valuable new properties to the Collective and then only expend resources based upon their prior projections needed to achieve some predetermined probability of success for a virtually complete assimilation. This measure is probably directly related to notion of a the Resistance Quotient mentioned by 7 of 9.

Furthermore, given the evidence corroborated by Data in BOBW concerning a hierarchy of commands, as well as 7 of 9's comments on the Omega Particle being priority 1 for the Borg Collective, we might infer that the Borg Collective as a whole maintains some weak ordering of preferences that in turn are used to prioritize Borg activities throughout the galaxy.

The Borg, naturally, will try to pursue their goals in such a way that they will be able to gain the most value at the least cost, and in so doing shall be able to satisfy more of their priorities in parallel. One low cost strategy the Borg appear to use is the sampling of vessels and other artificial structures, without stressing larger scale assimilation of the groups from which these artifacts originate. Several examples of this kind of assimilation include the outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone, a Talaxian freighter, the Raven, and various Klingon and Romulan vessels. This is essentially data-gathering for the Borg, it informs them of the relative technological level of different species as well as their biological distinctiveness, secondly most of these examples were not followed by large scale assimilation attempts save for humanity which was likely triggered by the unique events at J-25. It would appear that the prior assimilation of these entities did not change Borg priorities in a way sufficient enough to justify large scale assimilation. Of course some species are also considered completely unworthy even if the cost of assimilation is fairly low, such as the Kazon.

With those caveats on the Borg perception of value we can look at unambiguous cases of Borg assimilation interests, further we might justify how the logic of Borg interests regarding the Omega particle operated similarly with regard to assimilation attempts made against humanity after the incident at J-25, and even why the Borg directed assimilation efforts against Earth while possibly ignoring or at least avoiding total assimilation of the Dominion which has similar, and in some cases more advanced technology, as well as a biologically unique shape-shifting species.

Species 8472: Apex of biological evolution, biogenically engineered technology more advanced than all previously encountered, telepathic. The Borg unambiguously believed that this species was a priority asset, however earlier projections of their resistance proved catastrophic, and as such led to some of the greatest damage experienced by the Collective to date.

Species 116: Advanced propulsion system similar to Borg transwarp, unknown power source, the ability to generate some forms of virtual matter via a technique known as “particle synthesis”, as of yet a technique only observed to be found in Species 8472 “VOY: In the Flesh” . As for biology they show some resistance to particle weapons and also possess a fantastic intuitive pattern recognition allowing members of their species to function as living universal translators as well as perform advanced mathematical calculations rapidly. This species eludes the Borg for centuries, though it is eventually assimilated with the Borg employing hundreds of cubes along their entire territory, if Arturis is to be believed. If true this is one of the largest assimilation efforts ever described in any Star Trek series.

Species 329: Kazon, technologically and biologically unremarkable, the Borg do not pursue any assimilation attempts.

Now let us consider the case of Species 262, according to 7 of 9 this species was primitive, and possessed an oral history referring to the Omega phenomenon as a drop of blood from their creator. As assimilation incidents go this case is interesting since it is implied that this species is so primitive that they have not invented writing yet. Since Omega destroys subspace when it destabilizes it is likely that some subspace disruption was very near their world which would follow since the ancestors of Species 262 were able to observe it and add it to their oral history. The Borg would also have a very high likelihood of detecting such an anomalous disruption in subspace. It is my conjecture that Borg assimilated them to query their memories given their proximity, in order to augment their knowledge of this unique phenomenon rather than assimilating for biological distinctiveness. Essentially the Borg pursued a low cost assimilation effort to achieve a potentially high reward. The Borg then continue this pattern assimilating 13 species in all before finally creating Omega themselves (at a cost of some 600,000 drones). It would appear that the first myths corroborated by the likely presence of subspace disruptions and the eventual synthesis of Omega itself, created a significant priority shift in the Borg Collective.

Now what relevance does the Borg experience with the assimilation of species with knowledge of Omega bear with regard to large scale assimilation attempts against humanity? In my view they are both examples of low cost-high reward strategies in which the Borg gain access to critical knowledge or technology in the hands of species with comparatively low projected resistance. Prior to the encounter with the Enterprise-D the Borg had already assimilated several Federation outposts as well as the Raven, but up to that point no colonies which is characteristic of a large scale assimilation. As for the encounter with the Enterprise-D we must remember that from the Borg perspective this was a routine assimilation against a vessel incapable of withstanding them, and it was proceeding within tolerance up until the vessel vanished under some form of radically fast propulsion presumably through some on-board system that escaped detection. In essence Q's intervention to save the Enterprise-D gave the Borg the impression that a relatively weak interstellar organization was in the possession of some sort of highly advanced propulsion system. Based on the prior encounter the Borg determined that a full assimilation would only require one vessel and in turn could net them a sophisticated new propulsion technology. They might as well have rung the dinner bell. Incidentally it should be noted that the Borg might have also discovered evidence of the Omega protocol in the Enterprise database, in which case large scale assimilation was already on the table before the vessel vanished under unknown means.

So given these examples of Borg activity, how will the Borg interact with the Dominion? As far as I know we have no evidence of any prior conflict between the Borg and the Dominion. Yet given the proximity of a single Borg transwarp hub in the mid-rim of the Gamma Quadrant we would at least expect the Borg to be familiar with certain tactical threats that could pose a risk to such a valuable structure. However, although we know that the Dominion controls much of the Gamma Quadrant we don't know how densely distributed the Dominion forces are throughout their space. Many of the Dominion member worlds for example seem to have semi-autonomous administrations working under the Vorta, the Karemma for example are allowed to carry out a great deal of trade with limited interference. The Dominion can also build forces extremely rapidly thanks to their stress on cloning large forces as needed to meet security and wartime needs, which incidentally means that the Dominion may not need the large reserves we would associate with say the conventional Alpha Quadrant civilizations. The ability to create large numbers of expendable forces also gives the Dominion an advantage when it comes maintaining territorial integrity over such a large area of space given their more limited warp capabilities. I expect that given the density considerations of the Dominion as well as their limited warp drives that a likely encounter would probably be with a Borg cube and a patrol group of Jem'Hadar fighters of about 3 ships such as was observed in “DS9: Jem'Hadar”. Let us assume that the fighters are assimilated with relatively limited incident and that the Vorta being threatened with capture have committed suicide. If we believe the claims of the First in “DS9: Hippocratic Oath” then most Jem'Hadar have never seen a Founder and some even believe that they are myths. Now we know that the Borg are not indifferent to myths but I imagine that they are more likely to give credence to something that leaves behind tears in subspace versus a mere claim of existence. So what are the chances in this ideal first encounter that at least one Jem'Hadar has had direct contact with the Founders? Now as to the true value of this probability I have no idea and it likely fluctuates with time depending upon the level of Founder intervention and new troops being cloned, but if I make some very naïve assumptions (in for a penny in for a pound) I believe that it is a fairly straightforward to justify the notion that the Dominion keeps that value as close to zero as feasible and likely prohibits Jem'Hadar who have directly interacted with the Founders from going on patrols as a rule.

According to Memory-Alpha each Jem'Hadar fighter has a normal crew complement of 42 Jem'Hadar and 1 Vorta, let us say that all Jem'Hadar have a unique fixed probability of having direct contact with a Founder prior to assimilation and that each Jem'Hadar's chances are independent of the others. Given 3 ships we have 126 Jem'Hadar to work with, as a helpful starting point we will solve for the fixed probability of no prior contact for each Jem'Hadar by assuming a probability of 0.5 for the chance that at least one Jem'Hadar out of the total crew complement has had prior contact.

P{at least one prior contact}=1-(P{no prior contact})^(126)=0.5

P{no prior contact}=(0.5)^(1/126)=0.9945

P{prior contact}=0.0055

So it would appear that if every Jem'Hadar aboard has the same slightly greater then ½ of 1% chance then there is a 50% chance that the total assimilation of Jem'Hadar in this patrol offers some counter-indication to the mythical status of the Founders to the Borg Collective. So it would appear that this value of prior contact is very risky given the scenario, now what would the individual probability be for prior contact if the probability of at least one prior contact out of the total crew is equal to 0.05.

P{at least one prior contact}=1-(P{no prior contact})^(126)=0.05

P{no prior contact}=(0.95)^(1/126)=0.99959

P{prior contact}=0.00041

If we consider the mean number of Jem'Hadar that would have to be assimilated up to and including their first success then given the aforementioned probabilities for contact we have

E(x1)=1/0.0055=181.82

E(x2)=1/0.00041=2439.02

So in the first case the Borg, on average, should learn a little about the Founders after taking a little under 2 patrols whereas in the latter the Borg are looking at a little over 19 patrols. Still even the lower value is a little worrisome in the implications even though I expect the true value of prior contact to be even lower.

While the Dominion may not expect to encounter a force with as much information extraction ability as the Borg, it should still be the case that they proceed with as much caution as possible to prevent too much pertinent data on the Founders being released. As such I expect them to use the policy mentioned previously to obtain this objective. Exceptions exist of course especially when one wants to, say, trick a few intelligence agencies into a suicidal strike.

With these considerations in mind I am led to believe that the Borg gaining intelligence on the Founders from a patrol is very remote, so with the biological distinctiveness of the Founders outside of Borg considerations, what properties of Dominion technology and biological distinctiveness are likely to interest the Borg?

As far as weapons go the Dominion seems unique in their use of polaron based weaponry and also employs the use of subspace mines. A Dominion vessel is equipped with a conventional form of warp drive, can use an anti-proton beam to detect cloaked vessels, and may be equipped with some form of long-range transporters. As for the crew, the Jem'Hadar themselves have a unique form of personal cloaking, the ability to penetrate some forms of shielding, and in turn corroborate the existence of a fairly sophisticated rapid cloning system. With regard to the rest of their technology, most of what has been observed seems comparable to the development of the dominant Alpha Quadrant civilizations.

While this technology seems sufficient to entice the Borg's interest there are a few countervailing factors that may inhibit the pursuit of a large scale assimilation. First of all, as has been mentioned previously, large scale assimilation in this case would entail adding a massive number of genetically superfluous clones to the drone pool. Secondly the resistance of the Dominion may make certain features of Dominion distinctiveness more costly to acquire than some comparable substitute, subspace mines for example are also possessed by the Druoda, and advanced cloning techniques may already be a normal component of Borg nanoprobes (admittedly an ambiguous case given the example episode) “VOY: Drone”. Lastly it may be sufficient for the Borg to assimilate a small fragment of Dominion infrastructure to gain most of the relevant technologies. Consider for example a counter-factual wherein the Borg intervene in the Dominion War and assimilate all of the new Dominion installations in the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion had managed in a short span of time to set up bases that were capable of producing most of the relevant Dominion technologies even when cut off from support bases in the Gamma Quadrant, this ability to rapidly deploy their critical infrastructure elsewhere as well as the implied redundancy also makes it feasible for the Borg to consume most of the critical components of their technology and infrastructure from such installations. The only exception to this might be Dominion technologies which are purchased from their client races rather than produced at one of these installations. From this stance I would purport that the Borg can gain most of what they are interested in through more limited assimilation that is less costly versus the more the involved total assimilation which is likely to yield diminishing returns.

So after all of these arguments I at least think it is feasible to see why Borg priorities might lead them to assimilate primitive cultures such as Species 262 or Species 263 while ignoring warp capable ones like the Kazon and why a marginally less advanced humanity was targeted for total assimilation while a civilization like the Dominion might not be. Each of these presents an example of trade-offs governing Borg interests that might seem ambiguous when dealing with species that have valuable characteristics or information but do not appear to be as uniformly gifted in their general characteristics such as cases like Species 116 or Species 8472. It also suggests how Borg priorities can be significantly shifted with just one critical encounter.

Sorry for the length as well as any repeated claims, I have tried to justify my assumptions with as much information as I can garner from the various series but canon answers on Borg/Dominion conflicts are to my knowledge, non-existent.

[bilateralrope]

What changes if Jem'Hadar who know too much about the Founders are under orders to commit suicide and/or be killed as soon as the Borg announce their presence ?

Maybe those orders are specific to the Borg. Maybe they are general purpose orders for encountering any unknown species capable of extracting information from a Jem'Hadars their minds.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Borg can "reanimate" the dead - Seven did it with Neelix...

[bilateralrope]

So the orders specifically say to vaporize the head.

[Prometheus Unbound]

So the orders specifically say to vaporize the head.

or just vapourise the entire body heh

[Mr Hugh Mann]

What changes if Jem'Hadar who know too much about the Founders are under orders to commit suicide and/or be killed as soon as the Borg announce their presence ?

Maybe those orders are specific to the Borg. Maybe they are general purpose orders for encountering any unknown species capable of extracting information from a Jem'Hadars their minds.

While this is an interesting policy suggestion and one likely to be employed by the Dominion as a complement to their other intelligence control strategies it does not actually change the argument all that fundamentally, the policy would serve to reduce the risk associated with probability of prior contact. All we need to do is consider our prior probabilities and then take a product of the likelihood of prior contact with the sum of the complementary probabilities of successful or unsuccessful execution. Now these probabilities are also ambiguous, maybe the Jem'Hadar think they can fight their way through, or a few get knocked down by exploding bulkheads, everything goes as planned, Jem'Hadar get transported away, et cetera. I think it is at least safe to argue that the probability of successful execution is not unity, though I do expect it to be high. For simplicity's sake let us assume independence and that the probability of successful execution (with no chance of recovery) in the event of capture, either by other Jem'Hadar or suicide is a constant 0.95.

Working with the probabilities of prior contact given

P{no prior contact}+P{prior contact}(P{successful execution}+P{unsuccessful execution})=

P{no prior contact}+P{prior contact}P{successful execution}+P{prior contact}P{unsuccessful

execution}=1

Let's define a few new events

P{no confirmation}=P{no prior contact} +P{prior contact}P{successful execution}

P{confirmation}=P{prior contact}P{unsuccessful execution}

For P{prior contact}=0.0055 we have,

P{no confirmation}=0.999725

P{confirmation}=0.000275

For a patrol group with 126 Jem'Hadar then

P{at least one confirmation}=1-(P{no confirmation})^(126)=0.03406

On average

E(x1)=1/P{confirmation}=3636.36...

is the number of trials needed up to and including their first successful confirmation.

For P{prior contact}=0.00041

that average is instead

E(x2)=48780.49

Again as I stressed in the earlier argument, the Dominion should as a normal measure take many precautions to keep the possibility of confirmation very low as a rule.

[PREDATOR490]

In theory, the Borg outgun and outnumber everyone and could obliterate any major power on the board >IF< they went all out. The only known examples of the Borg going apeshit are the off-cuff remark about the Dauntless creators homeworld and the fight with S8472. As soon as Voyager entered Borg Space 15 cube fleets are flying around so it seems the Borg CAN be sufficiently motivated to bring the smack down but doing so is erratic.

The Dominion do not pose a critical threat to the safety of the Borg so it would be safe to assume the Borg are not going to be motivated like they were against S8472.
The Dominion do not have any pieces of technology that justify a mass invasion which the Borg either should have, can develop or even acquire from easier locations.

Thus, if the Borg stay true to form. They will send a cube which tries to chew up the fringes of Dominion territory and / or they send a cube directly AT the Dominion.
In either case, the Dominion are highly militaristic and unlike the Federation they will readily engage without mercy.

Possible Outcomes:
A) Borg cube may sweep through Dominion territory unnoticed because Dominion forces seemed rather elusive during early DS9. A vast empire and the Federation was able to avoid contact for years, where the hell was the massive Dominion fleets ?
Either the Dominion does not keep a large standing force or they were inexplicably absent.

B) Borg cube bumps into a bugship patrol - Borg cube cuts them up. It is beyond doubt the cube is going to be able to take them on so writers fiat only determines how much damage it takes doing so.
Even if all 3 ships slam into the cube, it is unlikely they can ram it to death.

C) Borg cube really riles up the Dominion standing defense which logically they must have SOMEWHERE. Writers fiat on how much you want to give the Dominion but for an empire that has been around for thousands of years and rivals the Federation. One would think they have a force equivalent at MINIMUM to the Federation in BOBW.
40 Dominion ships vs a Borg Cube - I can see that fight sliding in favor of the Dominion if only because 40 ships should be able to ram a cube to death and drown it with Jem Hadar corpses.

Outside of First Contact AND assuming the Dominion survive the encounter similar to BOBW ending. The Dominion have been shown to be more than capable to ramp up their military production and they would likely do so far quicker than the Federation did. I think it is fair the Dominion will be capable of holding off future Borg attacks unless the Borg decided to really go after them against their standard behavior.

The Federation had one year of advanced notice before the Borg showed up because of Q and they still were largely unprepared. Being more militaristic, having ships that are actually designed for war and a stronger stomach for fighting should give the Dominion plenty enough of edge to make the Borg label them as 'More Trouble Than Worth"