Star Trek Beyond *SPOILERS*

[NecronLord]

And flat-out treasonous. Wasn't Marcus giving orders without the authority or knowledge of his own superiors with the intention of formenting war against the Federation?

Exactly but I assumed Scotty wouldn't know that or he would pointed it out, so the fact that Admiral Marcus's actions were outright treason wouldn't factor into Scotty's objections no wonder Alexander Marcus's primeverse grandson hated Starfleet with a passion if his (Alexander's that is not David's) prime equilevant was anything like the one in Into Darkness.

The Qu'nos mission was like if a USAF general would diside to bomb an industrial district of Moscow (as the Klingons were traditionally a soviet analoge) without the consent or authorization of the President or the Congress during the Cold War (Starfleet is still subservient to the Federation Council even if "Jonh Harrison" killed the joint chiefs).

With sealed weapons that might well be say, trilithium resin. Scotty was absolutely right to insist on a search of the weapons, and if starfleet command hadn't been shot up last night something might have gotten done about it if he filed a protest.

[Lord Revan]

And flat-out treasonous. Wasn't Marcus giving orders without the authority or knowledge of his own superiors with the intention of formenting war against the Federation?

Exactly but I assumed Scotty wouldn't know that or he would pointed it out, so the fact that Admiral Marcus's actions were outright treason wouldn't factor into Scotty's objections no wonder Alexander Marcus's primeverse grandson hated Starfleet with a passion if his (Alexander's that is not David's) prime equilevant was anything like the one in Into Darkness.

The Qu'nos mission was like if a USAF general would diside to bomb an industrial district of Moscow (as the Klingons were traditionally a soviet analoge) without the consent or authorization of the President or the Congress during the Cold War (Starfleet is still subservient to the Federation Council even if "Jonh Harrison" killed the joint chiefs).

With sealed weapons that might well be say, trilithium resin. Scotty was absolutely right to insist on a search of the weapons, and if starfleet command hadn't been shot up last night something might have gotten done about it if he filed a protest.

true enough I'm not arguing that Scotty wasn't right to protest as he surely was, I'm just saying that at the time he filed the protest wasn't aware of Adm. marcus's treasonous motives so those didn't factor into why he made the protest.

[NecronLord]

Yeah, but saying 'oh god Scotty is such a namby-pamby wimp' as pooky seems to be doing, is more than a little misleading.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah, but saying 'oh god Scotty is such a namby-pamby wimp' as pooky seems to be doing, is more than a little misleading.

not mention more then a bit insulting as it implies that military personal are mindless drones that obey all orders without questions or protest regardless of the content of said orders.

[Lord Revan]

While we're at it didn't Spock object to the mission as well and pretty for the same reasons as Scotty and being Vulcan (well half-vulcan but he focuses on the vulcan side) his objections wouldn't come from a emotional distaste but logic.

[Batman]

Technically Scotty never actually objected to the mission, he merely didn't want torpedoes with an unknown payload on his ship (not only does he explicitly say 'my' ship but every Trek fan knows Scotty thinks the Big E is 'his' ship, Kirk is just the designated driver).Which, as Spock tried to point out, was another thing irregular as hell about the mission (not Scotty's reaction which far as I can tell was perfectly by the book, but the Big E taking on weapons they essentially knew nothing about).

[Lord Revan]

Either way it doesn't mean Starfleet are hypocrites as "need to know" basis cannot be used as tool silence valid protests in proper military protocol and this case scotty definetly needed to know as you handle HE warhead very differently then chemical or biological warhead. As IIRC scotty pointed out he enough problems on his hands dealing with the warcore to worry about potential NBC hazards that mishandling an unknown payload could cause, starting with the fact that since the payload is unknown scotty doesn't know what is and isn't proper handling of said payload.

Also I never inteded to imply that Spock objected to Scotty's protest as he didn't but rather that he objected to the mission on pretty much on the same grounds as commander Scott did (that mission had more then it's fair share of questionble objectives and way too many unknowns even in things the Enterprise needed to accompish the mission and Starfleet should know, like the payload of those long range torpedos).

[Elheru Aran]

Saw this movie last night.

It's pretty good. I still don't like Chris Pine very much, but it's mostly carried over from the past two movies-- he does a much better job as Kirk in this movie. Frankly all of them do pretty well-- they've settled well into their characters. If anything, perhaps a bit *too* well in Simon Pegg's case, he was kinda overdoing the accent just a wee bit.

But for the first time in the nu-Trek movies... it *felt* like Star Trek. Yes, it had its share of goofy moments (Kirk getting swamped by dog-lizard aliens anybody?), cheesy villains and slightly contrived plots... but frankly, it wasn't that bad. They didn't pull out the Romulans and Klingons again, they actually came up with someone original (more or less). Though one does have to wonder where his whole army came from. Maybe he cloned them?

Of note:

--Nu-Trek ships were built pretty damn tough, apparently. The Franklin is a few hundred years old, but once Scotty gets going, he gets it back up and running in probably less than 24 hours. Then it takes a lot of banging around in the Yorktown space station, but it survives (as far as we can tell) largely intact. It even kinda looks like the bad ol' Akiraprise, too.

--Yorktown Station has to be the biggest Starfleet structure ever built so far in either universe. It's bigger than Spacedock by the looks of it. I have to wonder why the hell they would waste space like that to build a massive goldfish bowl. But whatever, it was still pretty cool.

I'm sure there were more things I could mention, but I can't think of them right now so...

[Prometheus Unbound]

--Nu-Trek ships were built pretty damn tough, apparently. The Franklin is a few hundred years old, but once Scotty gets going, he gets it back up and running in probably less than 24 hours. Then it takes a lot of banging around in the Yorktown space station, but it survives (as far as we can tell) largely intact. It even kinda looks like the bad ol' Akiraprise, too.

Very tough. I remember watching it and thinking the saucer had to split in half or something but nope And it's not through lack of budget or inability to show it - they really are built that tough. I'm ok with that - what we saw, considering they are meant to take on multi-MT weapons, doesn't seem outlandish?

Remember Generations? I hate to bring it up, but the Saucer seemed to survive more or less ok, a few windows aside. It hit mountains / rocky hills and steamed through them just fine without too much visible damage.

I suppose it makes sense, in context.

--Yorktown Station has to be the biggest Starfleet structure ever built so far in either universe. It's bigger than Spacedock by the looks of it. I have to wonder why the hell they would waste space like that to build a massive goldfish bowl. But whatever, it was still pretty cool.

I thought it was lovely It was like a reverse Death Star, and this time the rebels are the bad guys

Seriously, Star Wars and B5 and Firefly and Alien as well, this sort of stuff should be achievable. It's not the most efficient use of materials, that's to be sure. But these people have replicators and can build stuff like the Enterprise in months (as seen at the end).

Why the heck not have giant spokes. They can control gravity between decks with turbolifts and stuff and those zip by ok without being stopped every 2.5m for a new grav plate. Why not have giant grav plates? Why not indeed.


The entire point of Yorktown was to "show off" the Federation.


My only issue with it is "let's build this next to a "nebula" (asteroid lightning field, imo but hey ho) that we've never explored. And put kids on it.


I'm not sure if that was one of those "I saw Vulcan die from 30 light years away" moments or not, tbh. I can't believe they'd put people, kids, civies, that close to unexplored space and and just go "that's that" ??

I know it was defended - with lots of weapons - just not those designed for a swarm. Fair enough but you really didn't explore the area AT ALL before placing that.. what, 1, 2k km from the belt?

I'm sure there were more things I could mention, but I can't think of them right now so...

[Elheru Aran]

Oh no question the Yorktown station was kind of awesome in its own way. But yes, putting it in the middle of unexplored space, with civilians and families... yeahhh. No.

I think one thing that annoyed me more at the end of the movie though, was that the new Enterprise was basically identical to the first one. I mean, okay, Enterprise-A was pretty similar to Enterprise-Refit... but I would've liked a tweak or two to the overall design to compensate. Maybe the Kelvinverse's edition of an Excelsior.

One little touch that I really loved at the end of the movie, Spock goes through Ambassador Spock's effects and turns up a picture of the TOS crew. I found that to be a really sweet homage to the original crew. I think it makes it pretty likely George Takei won't be making an appearance, though, since it would be a little too peculiar IMO.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Speaking of George Takei

OMG Gay Sulu. They executed it perfectly. Yes, has daughter. Likely either adopted or through assisted reproductive tech. Cool. No big production out of the fact that he is with a dude. Its just there and perfectly directed down to the little affectionate back strokes. The actors sold it. Plus, they formed an instant connection to the audience that let them be the focal point of panicked crowd scenes.

[Elheru Aran]

No, yeah, I liked that as well. I mean... it was noticeable, but I suspect only because there had been such a flap about it before. But it was far less of a big deal in the movie than you would have thought it might have been, so it worked.

[NecronLord]

I'm just going to imagine that the nebula thing was thought to be an uninhabited but impressive looking stellar feature and try and ignore the stuff about it being unmapped.

[DarthPooky]

Yeah, but saying 'oh god Scotty is such a namby-pamby wimp' as pooky seems to be doing, is more than a little misleading.

I didn't mean to say Scotty's a wimp I just have a tendency to take character dialog very literally. I also have a hard time raping my head around the idea that an organization a military in every sense and yet officially not be considered a military.

[Elheru Aran]

Yeah, but saying 'oh god Scotty is such a namby-pamby wimp' as pooky seems to be doing, is more than a little misleading.

I didn't mean to say Scotty's a wimp I just have a tendency to take character dialog very literally. I also have a hard time raping my head around the idea that an organization a military in every sense and yet officially not be considered a military.

For whatever it's worth, Trek has issues with that themselves, it seems. Roddenberry was an idealist and wanted a bunch of scientists in space, who could shoot back when necessary, but for whatever reason he had something against the idea of them being actually a military with a command structure and all that. TNG season one and parts of two are probably the closest to his vision that he managed to achieve. Later seasons of TNG are more explicit about the fact that under the civilian veneer, Starfleet is pretty close to a military, and DS9 is pretty outright about it. Enterprise played with it to some degree by introducing the openly military MACO's on a less militarized United Earth Starfleet ship, and the Kelvinverse tries to return to the mold that TOS set, even trying to portray a more militarized branch of Starfleet in Into Darkness.

So... what I'm trying to say, I guess, is that you aren't alone. Other people have had to figure it out, too.

[MKSheppard]

Nu-Trek ships were built pretty damn tough, apparently. The Franklin is a few hundred years old, but once Scotty gets going, he gets it back up and running in probably less than 24 hours.

Yet somehow Kull has been stuck there for 100~ years.

[Elheru Aran]

Nu-Trek ships were built pretty damn tough, apparently. The Franklin is a few hundred years old, but once Scotty gets going, he gets it back up and running in probably less than 24 hours.

Yet somehow Kull has been stuck there for 100~ years.

Yeah.

The best rationalization I can come up with:

Whatever event caught them while they were out exploring, threw them a *long* way from the borders of the Federation at the time-- either contemporary with or just before their version of Enterprise, as it was said to be the first warp-4 starship, while Enterprise NX-01 was warp 5 capable. The transporter also matches, as they said it was only used for cargo at the time; Enterprise, IIRC, is the first use of transporters for personnel.

If it was far enough out... and even if it wasn't, space is a BIG place... it would've taken the Federation a long time to spread out far enough that they'd be encountered. Yorktown is explicitly newly built, and presumably serves as a forward starbase for Starfleet and Federation operations.

Meanwhile in the interim, they may have given up the Franklin as a wash given their lack of options at the time, went exploring and found the remains of the ancient civilization on the planet-- the drone ships, and apparently the soldiers might have been robots too. There seems to have been some sort of life-prolonging technology as well, perhaps in the suits that Krull and his second-in-command wore. Their base was a long way from where the Franklin was, across some pretty inaccessible ground, and the Franklin was on a fairly high cliff. Perhaps they hiked all the way down to the base and decided it wasn't worth going back and forth.

Then a hundred years, hundred fifty or so, of marauding against passerby alien ships, snagging passing probes and listening to Starfleet... if they're capturing crews for Krull and his henchmen to drain, the ships would be coming down on the surface. Jaylah was there for some time, and presumably was picking up wreckage and hauling it back to the ship to see if she could fit it back together. With Scotty's help, and some last-minute help from Engineering crew that they rescued, they managed to cobble everything back together.

That's my best guess anyway. It would've worked better if the Franklin was more visibly falling apart as they made their way offplanet and towards Yorktown, IMO.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Whatever event caught them while they were out exploring, threw them a *long* way from the borders of the Federation at the time-- either contemporary with or just before their version of Enterprise, as it was said to be the first warp-4 starship, while Enterprise NX-01 was warp 5 capable. The transporter also matches, as they said it was only used for cargo at the time; Enterprise, IIRC, is the first use of transporters for personnel.

The Franklin was the first Warp 4 ship. The class just remained part of the UFP fleet in the early days of the federation (presumably with upgrades).

It looks to me like it entered the Garadin (or somesuch) radiation belt, and was somehow transported into that Nebula (transitory wormhole maybe). At which point a machine is discovered and its captain--a bitter old MACO--resorts to technovampirism to survive and plot his revenge against the federation that abandoned him

[Lord Revan]

Nu-Trek ships were built pretty damn tough, apparently. The Franklin is a few hundred years old, but once Scotty gets going, he gets it back up and running in probably less than 24 hours.

Yet somehow Kull has been stuck there for 100~ years.

Yeah.

The best rationalization I can come up with:

Whatever event caught them while they were out exploring, threw them a *long* way from the borders of the Federation at the time-- either contemporary with or just before their version of Enterprise, as it was said to be the first warp-4 starship, while Enterprise NX-01 was warp 5 capable. The transporter also matches, as they said it was only used for cargo at the time; Enterprise, IIRC, is the first use of transporters for personnel.

If it was far enough out... and even if it wasn't, space is a BIG place... it would've taken the Federation a long time to spread out far enough that they'd be encountered. Yorktown is explicitly newly built, and presumably serves as a forward starbase for Starfleet and Federation operations.

Meanwhile in the interim, they may have given up the Franklin as a wash given their lack of options at the time, went exploring and found the remains of the ancient civilization on the planet-- the drone ships, and apparently the soldiers might have been robots too. There seems to have been some sort of life-prolonging technology as well, perhaps in the suits that Krull and his second-in-command wore. Their base was a long way from where the Franklin was, across some pretty inaccessible ground, and the Franklin was on a fairly high cliff. Perhaps they hiked all the way down to the base and decided it wasn't worth going back and forth.

Then a hundred years, hundred fifty or so, of marauding against passerby alien ships, snagging passing probes and listening to Starfleet... if they're capturing crews for Krull and his henchmen to drain, the ships would be coming down on the surface. Jaylah was there for some time, and presumably was picking up wreckage and hauling it back to the ship to see if she could fit it back together. With Scotty's help, and some last-minute help from Engineering crew that they rescued, they managed to cobble everything back together.

That's my best guess anyway. It would've worked better if the Franklin was more visibly falling apart as they made their way offplanet and towards Yorktown, IMO.

Tbh we don't know if any of the Franklin's engineering crew survived long enough to make the ship flyble again, hell for all we know (FYI:I've not seen the movie yet) why Scotty was repair it so easily was that bulk of the task was done by the engineering crew of the Franklin before they died. the captain was ex-MACO not an engineer so once the engineering crew died out there was probably no-one who was both willing and capable of repairing the Franklin so it was left to rot in a manner of speaking.

Since the accident that cause the Franklin to crash would technically be part of the prime timeline as well it is an intresting question as what happend there to the crew of the Franklin

[Lord Revan]

having come back from seeing the movie it seemed that the main problem with the Franklin was that class was never meant to be launched from a planet so our crew had to try a risky stunt to get enough speed to get the Franklin spaceborne again.

It's probably that there simply wasn't enough experienced people who were willing to try get the Franklin back into orbit, seems they did try as someone had to teach Jaylah to speak english (as she spoke it without a universal translator), granted Krell seemed to be totally broken and insane by the last log so it's also likely that those crewmembers who could repair the ship simply didn't trust cap. Edison anymore at that point.

Generally I liked the movie, some of the action scenes could have been trimmed for more character building scenes but not annoyingly so.

[Alyrium Denryle]

having come back from seeing the movie it seemed that the main problem with the Franklin was that class was never meant to be launched from a planet so our crew had to try a risky stunt to get enough speed to get the Franklin spaceborne again.

It's probably that there simply wasn't enough experienced people who were willing to try get the Franklin back into orbit, seems they did try as someone had to teach Jaylah to speak english (as she spoke it without a universal translator), granted Krell seemed to be totally broken and insane by the last log so it's also likely that those crewmembers who could repair the ship simply didn't trust cap. Edison anymore at that point.

Generally I liked the movie, some of the action scenes could have been trimmed for more character building scenes but not annoyingly so.

Jaylah learned to speak english from the ship itself. Its logs and translation files. She said as much.

"How do you speak english?"

"I learned it from my house"

[Elheru Aran]

having come back from seeing the movie it seemed that the main problem with the Franklin was that class was never meant to be launched from a planet so our crew had to try a risky stunt to get enough speed to get the Franklin spaceborne again.

It's probably that there simply wasn't enough experienced people who were willing to try get the Franklin back into orbit, seems they did try as someone had to teach Jaylah to speak english (as she spoke it without a universal translator), granted Krell seemed to be totally broken and insane by the last log so it's also likely that those crewmembers who could repair the ship simply didn't trust cap. Edison anymore at that point.

Generally I liked the movie, some of the action scenes could have been trimmed for more character building scenes but not annoyingly so.

Jaylah learned to speak english from the ship itself. Its logs and translation files. She said as much.

"How do you speak english?"

"I learned it from my house"

It does make one wonder. It looked like you might have been able to see Krull's base camp from the Franklin, and vice versa... so why wouldn't Krull have noticed that suddenly the Franklin vanished when Jaylah cloaked it?

Of course if it wasn't actually visible from the camp then that's not an issue, but it still seems remarkable that he would completely write it off like that.

[Crazedwraith]

Just got back from it. Enjoyed it greatly. The visuals of the Star Base were amazing. And it felt like it was really trying to be star Trek. With Pegg writing I guess it's no surprise there seemed to be more Scotty moments but it felt likely everyone really got at least a couple of moments in the spotlight. I think least used was Chekov which they probably regret now.

The dual dedications at the end made me sad.

Eta: How fast was the Franklin was supposed to go? I swear Scotty said it was the first to get past Warp 4. But that would make it slower than the NX Class it was later than being a post xindi/romulan war ship. Unless the re calibrated the warp scale or something.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Just got back from it. Enjoyed it greatly. The visuals of the Star Base were amazing. And it felt like it was really trying to be star Trek. With Pegg writing I guess it's no surprise there seemed to be more Scotty moments but it felt likely everyone really got at least a couple of moments in the spotlight. I think least used was Chekov which they probably regret now.

The dual dedications at the end made me sad.

Eta: How fast was the Franklin was supposed to go? I swear Scotty said it was the first to get past Warp 4. But that would make it slower than the NX Class it was later than being a post xindi/romulan war ship. Unless the re calibrated the warp scale or something.

Starfleet ships have long service lives. She may have been retrofitted with a Warp 5 engine, or she may have just been kept in service because Warp 4 was perfectly adequate for less long-haul work than Enterprises mission profile.

[Elheru Aran]

Just got back from it. Enjoyed it greatly. The visuals of the Star Base were amazing. And it felt like it was really trying to be star Trek. With Pegg writing I guess it's no surprise there seemed to be more Scotty moments but it felt likely everyone really got at least a couple of moments in the spotlight. I think least used was Chekov which they probably regret now.

The dual dedications at the end made me sad.

Eta: How fast was the Franklin was supposed to go? I swear Scotty said it was the first to get past Warp 4. But that would make it slower than the NX Class it was later than being a post xindi/romulan war ship. Unless the re calibrated the warp scale or something.

Starfleet ships have long service lives. She may have been retrofitted with a Warp 5 engine, or she may have just been kept in service because Warp 4 was perfectly adequate for less long-haul work than Enterprises mission profile.

Or Kelvinverse NX-01 was slower. There's any number of ways to rationalize it, mostly because we aren't 100% sure how much carries over between old Trek and new Trek.