Strange New Worlds (spoilers)

[Evilchumlee]

That's absolute bullshit. There are no Powers That Be that exist in Star Trek.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, the Q exist. Lower Decks shows us that "ascension" is a fairly well known thing that humans can accomplish.

It might also be less mysterious than that... we know for a fact there are future "Time Police"... it might not be some mystical force, it might be... people actively working to ensure the timeline remain secure.

All that not to mention, "time crystals" that seem to work in a mysterious fashion and conveniently bestow information to some to ensure that... the timeline flows the way it "should".

There's a mass of time travel episodes in Star Trek and none of them try to pull off 'it's self correcting". JJVerse would not be a thing if it was self-correcting. Temporal Cold War could not be a thing if it was self correcting, Star Trek IV could not be a thing if it was self correcting. ( Unless you positing the whales dropped dead immediately after the film?) They wouldn't need a temporal prime directive or policing agency if it was self correcting. The list goes on.

I don't think people would be particularly aware of a self-correcting timeline...

JJVerse is a wildcard, and in some ways, the universe WAS trying to self-correct... despite WILDLY different backgrounds, the crew of the Enterprise still got together. It has been suggested though that the Kelvin Timeline is actually an alternate universe alltogether... I mean, it suggests it in the movie itself... it's not exactly a divergent timeline.

Temporal Cold War is too abstract for us to even know. We just don't know enough about it. Then again, no matter what happens, we do (apparently) end up in the "correct" timeline... (although as an aside, everyone seems to forget the time Silik actually saved NX-01... Daniels seemed ok with it getting blown away...)

I don't see any issue with STIV. Two humpback wales brought into the future likely wouldn't really affect the timeline. Sure, butterflies, etc. but without intervention, those whales would have been killed by the whaling ship shortly after being released... the biggest change to the timeline are some whalers being short a few bucks they otherwise would have had.

Temporal Prime Directive and Time Police are still necessary... even if you can pretty sure that the universe self corrects, it would be unwise to put faith into that... because if even if there is some all-powerful force that is attempting to correct itself, it might not necessarily do so in the way you want it to...

There's nothing to suggest in the episode that Pike fucked up the Balance Of Terror scenario because of the powers of be, they just straight up said he was the wrong person and handled the situation wrong.

It's simply a really fucking stupid stipulation to make sure continuity is maintained.

Yes, he was the wrong person. He... wasn't supposed to be there, doing that.

[Evilchumlee]

That's absolute bullshit. There are no Powers That Be that exist in Star Trek.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, the Q exist. Lower Decks shows us that "ascension" is a fairly well known thing that humans can accomplish.

It might also be less mysterious than that... we know for a fact there are future "Time Police"... it might not be some mystical force, it might be... people actively working to ensure the timeline remain secure.

All that not to mention, "time crystals" that seem to work in a mysterious fashion and conveniently bestow information to some to ensure that... the timeline flows the way it "should".

There's a mass of time travel episodes in Star Trek and none of them try to pull off 'it's self correcting". JJVerse would not be a thing if it was self-correcting. Temporal Cold War could not be a thing if it was self correcting, Star Trek IV could not be a thing if it was self correcting. ( Unless you positing the whales dropped dead immediately after the film?) They wouldn't need a temporal prime directive or policing agency if it was self correcting. The list goes on.

I don't think people would be particularly aware of a self-correcting timeline...

JJVerse is a wildcard, and in some ways, the universe WAS trying to self-correct... despite WILDLY different backgrounds, the crew of the Enterprise still got together. It has been suggested though that the Kelvin Timeline is actually an alternate universe alltogether... I mean, it suggests it in the movie itself... it's not exactly a divergent timeline.

Temporal Cold War is too abstract for us to even know. We just don't know enough about it. Then again, no matter what happens, we do (apparently) end up in the "correct" timeline... (although as an aside, everyone seems to forget the time Silik actually saved NX-01... Daniels seemed ok with it getting blown away...)

I don't see any issue with STIV. Two humpback wales brought into the future likely wouldn't really affect the timeline. Sure, butterflies, etc. but without intervention, those whales would have been killed by the whaling ship shortly after being released... the biggest change to the timeline are some whalers being short a few bucks they otherwise would have had.

Temporal Prime Directive and Time Police are still necessary... even if you can pretty sure that the universe self corrects, it would be unwise to put faith into that... because if even if there is some all-powerful force that is attempting to correct itself, it might not necessarily do so in the way you want it to...

There's nothing to suggest in the episode that Pike fucked up the Balance Of Terror scenario because of the powers of be, they just straight up said he was the wrong person and handled the situation wrong.

It's simply a really fucking stupid stipulation to make sure continuity is maintained.

Yes, he was the wrong person. He... wasn't supposed to be there, doing that.

[Crazedwraith]

Those first two sections were a lot of waffle trying to explain why we don't see self-correcting time anywhere else rather than admit, self-correcting time is not a thing anywhere else. It's not even a thing here, because Pike had to go back and try and correct it himself.

Yes, he was the wrong person. He... wasn't supposed to be there, doing that.

There's no "supposed to be" about it. You've got it backwards. It's not "Pike fucked that up because he wasn't supposed to be there", it's "Pike will fuck that up that's why he's not supposed to be there."

The message of the episode is "sometimes you really do have to shoot a romulan" and that just seems antithetical to what Star Trek is supposed to be about and people harped that SNWs was a return to form on.

[Evilchumlee]

The message of the episode is "sometimes you really do have to shoot a romulan" and that just seems antithetical to what Star Trek is supposed to be about and people harped that SNWs was a return to form on.

We took away different messages from the episode.

I got a very heavy handed "You can't alter fate" message... which I mean, is ALSO somewhat contrary to what Trek normally says. That's kind of baked into the core of SNW though... we keep seeing Pike having to deal with the fact that he can't change the future.

I will agree though, i'm not thrilled any time Trek goes with "Violence actually IS the answer". Discovery was tainted right from the pilot with that.

What that episode REALLY did was kind of tie up the "Pike can't change the future" thread. We can kind of move on from it now. It is what it is, it's not going to change, and Pike knows for damn sure if he tries to change it, things go bad. So... i'm guessing that plotline gets kind of brushed under the rug now. I don't expect to hear much about it this season.

[Crazedwraith]

Yes, as I've said repeatedly, I'm sure that's what they were going for. I just don't like how they did it.

Like literally the only reason they are going with 'you can't fight fate' is because they have to to maintain continuity with The Menagarie. Any other trek story there would be some way out some, ingenious third path to take but SNW can't do that.

[Evilchumlee]

Yes, as I've said repeatedly, I'm sure that's what they were going for. I just don't like how they did it.

Like literally the only reason they are going with 'you can't fight fate' is because they have to to maintain continuity with The Menagarie. Any other trek story there would be some way out some, ingenious third path to take but SNW can't do that.

It's the inherent limitation of being a prequel.

Given that Discovery had no interest whatsoever in maintaining even a modicum of continuity, and SNW is a direct spinoff, they really should have just went ahead and just made DSC and SNW total reboots and unbind themselves from anything previous. Make it like Disney Star Wars... they can take good parts from old canon, but still tell their own story and do whatever they want with it.

Instead, CBS holds fast that it's all the "Prime Timeline" and becomes beholden to what came before. When they feel like it, anyway.

I'm really not in total disagreement with you. I thought the episode was entertaining, but also not particular thrilled about the resolution. There were surely many different ways we could have reached the same endpoint... Pike seeing a future where he changed his fate and it led to terrible things... without going the route that was taken. Hell, even if you really wanted to stick with the "redo a TOS episode" theme. Here's one I came up with in 4 seconds while typing this out...

...instead of "Balance of Terror", do "City on the Edge of Forever". The change? Double-whammy time shenanigans, Pike can't bring himself to let Edith Keeler die. Pike is the "wrong choice" for the situation because he values the individual too much and can't sit back and let a terrible thing happen. Just like he thinks he can change his own history, he's confident he can avoid the bad future where Edith Keeler lives. Turns out, he wrong on both. Hell, even gives an opportunity to bring back the Guardian as seen in DSC.

So there we go. Pike isn't the wrong choice for the situation because he won't kill people. He's the wrong choice because he won't let someone die.

You're welcome, CBS. I'm available for consultations any time.

[bilateralrope]

The message of the episode is "sometimes you really do have to shoot a romulan" and that just seems antithetical to what Star Trek is supposed to be about and people harped that SNWs was a return to form on.

I'm going to bring up A Taste of Armageddon where the willingness to use overwhelming force is what led to peace. First with Kirk using General Order 24 to get Eminiar VII to give back the Starfleet personnel they were holding hostage, then to blow up the computer managing the war to get rid of the middle ground between peace and utter destruction.

Sometimes peace requires making war costly enough that everyone wants to avoid it.

[Crazedwraith]

I wouldn't call that the same thing myself. That was a "war is bad. You wouldn't do it if you hadn't made a sanitised simulacrum of it" episode not "not be a pussy and just shoot them" episode.

[Evilchumlee]

Given the Klingons showing up in this episode, I wanted to share my current headcanon on the various Klingons out there.

I'm going with now that the augment virus caused alot of strife. It didn't just make the smoothhead Klingons. That was one possibility. As it spread, a mutated strain caused a different effect... rather than turning Klingons to a human-like appearance, it did the opposite. The new strain made them... hyper-Klingon. Those are the DSC Klingons, and it's also the reason for the century-long no contact with the Federation and civil war... the Klingons were having their version of the Eugenics Wars. The DSC Klingons didn't just have cosmetic changes, in amplifying their Klingon features, they basically became a real version of "Klingon Supermen". Over that century, the DSC Augment Klingons began to take control. There were still alot of "base" Klingons, and the smoothhead Klingons were still very much out there as well. But Klingon society became dominated by the Augment Klingons, just like Earth did centuries prior.

At some point, a true cure is created and introduced into the Klingon population. The DSC Klingons try to prevent it... they like being what they are... but nevertheless, it spreads. By the 2250's, the era of the Augment Klingons is already on its way out but they're still mostly holding onto power. These are the Klingons primarily seen on the frontline of the war... they're physically superior to other Klingons, it makes sense they would be in the heaviest fighting. But by the end of the war, most of the DSC Klingons have been exposed to the cure and they're already experiencing changes... L'Rell is a great example. She's experiencing rapid changes at the end of the war, her genetic structure being rewritten back to "base" Klingon.

The cure is actually a bit less effective on the smoothead Klingon variant but still works. By the late 2250's/early 2260's, the DSC Klingons have mostly transitioned back to baseline Klingons. The smoothheads are just starting to experience changes. They also get somewhat ostracized by Klingon society and are mostly pushed to the fringes of Klingon space... through the 2260's, the smootheads are common along the Federation border. By the end of the 2260's into the 2270's, the cure has mostly eradicated all of the virus. DSC Klingons are totally gone, the smootheads quickly dwindle in number, all transitioning back to "base" Klingons.

[Crazedwraith]

S2E1 gave me a lot of things to complain about to be honest.

Given my dislike of the finale's message the focus on Wars past and future with Klingons and Gorn is worrying. And I really hope they aren't doing a supersoldier serum addiction arc with Chapel and M'Benga's steroid injection thing.

And I complained when it was in the trailer but I still really really hate every iteration of the 'everyone has to have their own unique version of Engage' joke that every NuTrek series has to have for some reason. The only place it even partial worked was Prodigy because that was literal kid doing it.

[Evilchumlee]

And I complained when it was in the trailer but I still really really hate every iteration of the 'everyone has to have their own unique version of Engage' joke that every NuTrek series has to have for some reason. The only place it even partial worked was Prodigy because that was literal kid doing it.

Yeah that's kind of an annoyance, not really sure why that's a thing now. Picard had a phrase, and Pike in the Kelvin movies said one once or twice.

Now all of a sudden it's this big deal thing which has already gotten real old, real fast... there's only so many things to say. We're gonna start getting some really odd ones. "Let's fly" is bad enough. It would be cool if we could cut this out.

I do share some of the apprehensions about the continual focus on wars. This was supposed to be the "episodic exploration" Trek. And especially... just... enough with the Gorn already. The Klingons... fine. There's at least nominally a war in TOS, it definitely heats up again but... hot damn enough with the Gorn. They shouldn't be there at all, let alone on the verge of war.

I don't get why they don't do Tholians. Tholians make way more sense. Just... do that.

[Evilchumlee]

Sorry for the double post, just checked out Episode 2...

It's MUCH better. That was a solid entry into Star Trek and... I think... a pretty good courtroom drama piece.

Episode was very well written, there was very little "wasted" dialogue. Damn near everything said in this episode had a purpose that all came back to the resolution. Wonderfully done.

It asked a philosophical question, which I appreciate from Star Trek, "When is it ok to ignore and unjust law?" Pointing out repeated Prime Directive violations was a nice touch. "It's the law, BUT..."

Acts as a nice prequel to the DS9 augment situation. Gives some kind of legal precedent to Bashir's situation. It's not the same, but I think the general idea is similar... judge the individual, not the group.

The treatment of genetic engineering continues to be an odd thing for Star Trek. They've established it, they can't get away from it but... it's so... unFederation like, adding in this episode outright forced segregation. I can understand Earth... they had a bad experience... but it's odd the other races just go along with it.

Small notes:
I loved the Tellarite judge in this episode. He was alittle bit of a walkback to the ENT-style Tellarites. I like this... i'm ok with making some changes but if we've establish something exists, it exists... I *LIKE* how the new Tellarites look but... there should still be other Tellarites around. And, well, there ARE! So Tellarites now seem to exist on a Whathog-Spectrum... you got the Wrinkley Face ENT guys, the Big Tusk DSC guys, and the Pig-Nose TOS guys. Cool.

The dress uniforms looked great. SNW is SOOOOO much better at "visual updates" than DSC was. Honestly I can buy all of the SNW uniforms as just being TOS uniforms. They're close enough, and look good. I don't think they WILL, but I would like them to add some more options to the female uniforms to include the skirts and the more open-neck uniforms (and, whatever, be 2023 and lets males in on it too if you must) In that regard, it's also ok they're NOT there... yet. Just like in the real world, styles change... we forget that Nichelle Nichols herself, commenting on the miniskirts of TOS, never thought them to be sexist... they were empowering. Women could FINALLY wear whatever they wanted. They weren't shamed for "showing some leg". The miniskirts of TOS were PROGRESSIVE, and reflected the style of the time. In-universe... that doesn't have to be entirely different. Styles change, "the future" doesn't always need to be depicted as "Current year BUT IN SPAAACE". By the 2260's... miniskirts are kind of fashionable again, and Starfleet puts in an option for them.

I would likely to see a BIT more of a tip to some retro style in SNW just in general. I'm not necessarily talking mini skirts and scantily clad women running around, but like, throw in some of that TOS old school flair. Maybe have a new alien show up in like, a shiny suit or something, I don't know. It doesn't have to be over the top, but a few nods here and there would be cool.

It's a small gripe but it bothers me, I still wish the Enterprise had straight nacelle struts. And I would like it's paintjob to get a bit lighter... it almost looks brown/copper at times. I want to see it get closer to that blueish-gray. One of the Ships-of-the-Line calendars had Eaves' first submission featured, it looked so much better. VERY close to what we ended up getting, but also just slightly closer to the TOS Enterprise.

[Crazedwraith]

Seen Episode 2. Not a subtle episode and of course we knew what the outcome was going to be, Una's a main character and would return to the Enterprise and the law wouldn't be changed as it's still in place through the time of Ds9 up to the Prodigy period at least.

The guest lawyer was decent enough though and it was interesting they played with how invested she was in Una's case vs just tearing at the Federation as whole.

For being the "real" Star Trek this one paints the direst picture yet of trans(human)phobia of the Federation.

I did enjoy seeing a Tellarite bigwig and that the court members were a Human and vulcan and a Tellarite. Just need an Andorian or an Aenar in there to complete the set. Is Captain Batel supposed to be a starship Captain or a JAG officer? She seemed to be a Captain in S1 but she seems much more involved in the process than I expected in this episode. Una's suspicion her JAG counsel wasn't really on her side seemed a little off.

The only other quibble I have is last season in the altered timeline (yes back to that again, sorry) we find out Una got the full 20 year punishment but it's hard to see what the change of sending a few letters to cadets could have had that would derail this episode its well before the significant change of the training accident. Unless we go back to the time crystal will inexplicabley fuck the timeline towards darkness if you piss it off type deal.

[Evilchumlee]

I did enjoy seeing a Tellarite bigwig and that the court members were a Human and vulcan and a Tellarite. Just need an Andorian or an Aenar in there to complete the set. Is Captain Batel supposed to be a starship Captain or a JAG officer? She seemed to be a Captain in S1 but she seems much more involved in the process than I expected in this episode. Una's suspicion her JAG counsel wasn't really on her side seemed a little off.

It's alittle odd, but we also don't have detailed information on how the Federation's legal system works.

Perhaps under Federation law, the arresting authority (Batel) must be the one to lead the prosecution against the accused. That might also explain Vulcan Admiral Laywer Guy... Batel was more Space Cop, not Space Lawyer... Vulcan Admiral Guy was Space Lawyer.

I can see... some amount of sense in that? A less extreme Judge Dredd situation? Perhaps the USS Cayuga is a JAG ship whose mission is specifically to track down, apprehend, and try accused criminals.

The only other quibble I have is last season in the altered timeline (yes back to that again, sorry) we find out Una got the full 20 year punishment but it's hard to see what the change of sending a few letters to cadets could have had that would derail this episode its well before the significant change of the training accident. Unless we go back to the time crystal will inexplicabley fuck the timeline towards darkness if you piss it off type deal.

I had forgotten all about that nugget. It does seem too early for any of those butterflies to have taken affect, but I suppose anything can happen. The entire situation DID reside upon Pike going out of his way to go Toxic Planet to get Super Lawyer to help Una. If Pike sent those letters than for some reason got side tracked (the one kids dad was in some sort of position of power as I recall) by being called in for questioning about his knowledge of future events, he may not have been available to go to Toxic Planet to ask Super Lawyer for help.

Maybe as soon he sends those letters, the kids show their parents, and Pike gets a visit from Temporal Investigations... that could easily set him off track.

Or we can get creative and go into really crazy land because it's time travel... Una goes to jail because Pike sends the letters and is immediately regretful of his decision, due to time travelling Pike having come back in time to warn him against trying to alter the future, which he did when he sent those letters, which sent him into a spiral, not going off the help Una and leading to the timeline where Pike has to time travel back to the past to make sure he doesn't send those letters...

[Evilchumlee]

There's a mass of time travel episodes in Star Trek and none of them try to pull off 'it's self correcting".

This quote didn't age well given Episode 3.

We now have confirmation that, YES even things from the "Prime Timeline" that we have seen have been changed, and YES, time absolutely DOES try to "correct itself".

[Crazedwraith]

There's a mass of time travel episodes in Star Trek and none of them try to pull off 'it's self correcting".

This quote didn't age well given Episode 3.

We now have confirmation that, YES even things from the "Prime Timeline" that we have seen have been changed, and YES, time absolutely DOES try to "correct itself".

Well thanks for the spoilers.

And fuck me for not being able to see episodes before they come out I guess?

[Batman]

If it's self-correcting why do the Feds need an organization tasked with 'investigating and REPAIRING damage to the timeline?' There's absolutely NOTHING in this episode supporting that nor the allegation that it is actually the Prime Timeline that is changed.

[Crazedwraith]

The line about time correcting itself and 'this all should have happened in 1992' is a reference to the fact they've retconned the eugenics war extensively. The Romulan agent also says it's a result of the temporal cold war and so many people trying to fuck with Earth History. It's not conclusive the universe is self-correcting and obviously big enough changes just break it and need fixing.

[Evilchumlee]

Well thanks for the spoilers.

And fuck me for not being able to see episodes before they come out I guess?

Apologize, didn't mean for a spoiler. Really though out of context, it's not much of one.

Spoiler: Time travel episode contains time travel.

I wasn't blasting you for not knowing, I was just pointing out that there was some kind of confirmation that it DOES happen.

If it's self-correcting why do the Feds need an organization tasked with 'investigating and REPAIRING damage to the timeline?' There's absolutely NOTHING in this episode supporting that nor the allegation that it is actually the Prime Timeline that is changed.

The timeline TRIES to repair itself... that doesn't mean it also does, or is successful. See: This episode.

Even they're think there's a chance the ship might right itself, it still seems worth it to try to ensure that happens, right?

It's 100% a confirmation that the Prime Timeline has changed. He had, with no uncertainty, that the Eugenics Wars began in 1992 and ended in 1996. That was established in what we know as the "Prime Timeline".

Now, it has not only been retconned... but specifically confirmed that it was supposed to have happened in 1992, but time travel changed it.

I suppose it's semantics at this point, DSC/SNW are the "Prime Timeline" while the "old" Timeline is something else, but that's splitting hairs.

The line about time correcting itself and 'this all should have happened in 1992' is a reference to the fact they've retconned the eugenics war extensively. The Romulan agent also says it's a result of the temporal cold war and so many people trying to fuck with Earth History. It's not conclusive the universe is self-correcting and obviously big enough changes just break it and need fixing.

They're kind of two separate things.

Yes, time travel interference changes things.

ALSO

The timeline appears to "want" to fix itself when possible.

It makes sense observationally... even when things change wildly, there's alot that stays the same, like when Earth forms the Confederation of Earth and is completely and totally different... they still build a ship that looks a whole lot like a Galaxy-Class, and Picard commands it.

[bilateralrope]

And fuck me for not being able to see episodes before they come out I guess?

How big a delay is there on you getting to see new episodes ?

Looking at the timestamps, Evilchumlee's post was after the episode went up on streaming in New Zealand. I've only taken this long to reply to you because there were other things that delayed me watching the episode.

Though maybe we could use spoiler tags for 24 hours or so after an episode goes up.

[Crazedwraith]

And fuck me for not being able to see episodes before they come out I guess?

How big a delay is there on you getting to see new episodes ?

Looking at the timestamps, Evilchumlee's post was after the episode went up on streaming in New Zealand. I've only taken this long to reply to you because there were other things that delayed me watching the episode.

Though maybe we could use spoiler tags for 24 hours or so after an episode goes up.

It comes out a thursday here (UK) and I usually watch it friday evening. The spoilers thing was my own fault for coming to this thread, albeit because I was notified by quote before watching it. No real need for spoiler tags.

The quoted bit is me complaining that evilchumlee used something in the most recent episode to disprove something I'd said in an argument about time travel long before S2 had come out, let alone this episode. Rather than the spoilers thing.

[bilateralrope]

And fuck me for not being able to see episodes before they come out I guess?

How big a delay is there on you getting to see new episodes ?

Looking at the timestamps, Evilchumlee's post was after the episode went up on streaming in New Zealand. I've only taken this long to reply to you because there were other things that delayed me watching the episode.

Though maybe we could use spoiler tags for 24 hours or so after an episode goes up.

It comes out a thursday here (UK) and I usually watch it friday evening. The spoilers thing was my own fault for coming to this thread, albeit because I was notified by quote before watching it. No real need for spoiler tags.

The quoted bit is me complaining that evilchumlee used something in the most recent episode to disprove something I'd said in an argument about time travel long before S2 had come out, let alone this episode. Rather than the spoilers thing.

Yeah. Those notifications sitting unread for a while are annoying.

[Evilchumlee]

Though maybe we could use spoiler tags for 24 hours or so after an episode goes up.

I apologize for spoilers once again. Had no intention of that.

The quoted bit is me complaining that evilchumlee used something in the most recent episode to disprove something I'd said in an argument about time travel long before S2 had come out, let alone this episode. Rather than the spoilers thing.

Also apologies again, I meant that somewhat facetiously, it didn't translate through online text.


Just watched this episode and it was... good? This is just a good, old fashioned Star Trek episode. It did absolutely nothing new. In fact, it's basically a reboxed version of like, two classic Trek situations. That's ok. I was entertained, which is what i'm looking for.

I don't feel like this episode left a whole lot for discussion. It happened. It was entertaining, but there's little to really latch onto and say "well look at that!"

Thoughts...
Spoiler

So, the neat thing was going to Rigel VII. It looked cool and they actually did a pretty good job of making the Kalar still kind of look like they did in "The Cage". The palace looked good too and... I don't know... close enough to it's TOS depiction.

A small gripe I have is the sheer amount of crap left on the planet from the "The Cage". Why did they go down there with... at least 10 crew? Why did apparently ALL of them have phaser rifles, and they weren't able to bring back like, any?! Granted I didn't actually count how many given out but it seems like they just had too much stuff.

I appreciate the internal consistency, even if I despise Discovery, of having era-appropriate Phaser Rifles being left behind (i.e., Discovery rifles). I don't think we ever got a great look at it, but Zac seemed to still be wearing his Starfleet uniform... for some reason... and it didn't look quite like an SNW era or a DSC era... kind of actually looked simpler, like just a red V-neck shirt... which kind of tracks for a nuCage.

I'm already tired of "I have a dark past" M'Benga.

I like Ortegas more than I thought I would though. I compare Ortegas to O'Brian. She's just, a regular person. No secret dark past. No secret genetic augments. No secret dark family history. No secret future knowledge. No quirky, eccentric alien stuff. She's just, a pilot, on a ship. I like that... not everyone needs to have some extraordinary story. Some... MOST... are just people.

[Esquire]

<snip>

You can't both quote and spoiler-tag stuff in a single post; it's a bug with the forum software dating back at least a few years. The spoiler box won't open.

[Crazedwraith]

Latest episode thoughts: it was very standalone even by SNW standards and that's just fine. It moves well and uses it's gimmick to reveal the core of it's character. Pike is still a leader who cares about his men, M'Benga a doctor and Ortegas an instinctive pilot. That's fine, it's entertaining but it doesn't reveal anything new about them.

I've said before this season needs an Ortegas episode and this one was... a start? It's not an Ortegas episode like last week was a La'an episode and the central message of being 'you are just the pilot and that's okay' is umm... iffy. Her piloting scenes are great but it shouldn't be the be all end all of her character.

--

It's in now way the show's fault but it's not improve that Paramount+ seems to often cut out and buffer a lot in the evening. I don't know if it's my internet or the site but it happens much more often to it compared to Netflix or DisneyPlus, maybe it just demands more bandwidth than them I don't know.