Star Trek 09 review thread

[Androsphinx]

I think that acting like a six-year old when you're is confident that you're in a superior position is a pretty big flaw in character. He reminded me like something from the dregs of /b/, so infatuated with his l33t haxor skilz that he doesn't need to conform to basic standards of professionalism and behaviour.

[TithonusSyndrome]

I said this earlier about the outpost.
It is within spitting distance of Vulcan... why would it be advanced or have sensors or anything when VULCAN is right there?

Don't you think that it would have been one of Vulcan's oldest and most established colonies from their earliest spacefaring days when they were just setting out, if that were the case? It's not as if early spacefaring civilizations can pick and choose where they want to colonize, or would just pass over a perfectly suitable M-class world.

Delta Vega was a also frozen shithole.

If that were entirely true, then the computer would have likely stated that the planets were H, O or P class planets. Where Kirk landed was, at the time, a frozen shithole.

If there were a Vulcan colony on the planet as well why couldn't Scotty have just gone there from time to time to get supplies instead of bemoaning how he was subsisting on rations?

This, I believe, is exactly what Bounty and I are trying to say.

[General Zod]

If that were entirely true, then the computer would have likely stated that the planets were H, O or P class planets. Where Kirk landed was, at the time, a frozen shithole.

It's possible the planet had very limited natural resources, making it undesirable for habitation even if it were technically a Class M.

[Havok]

It's also possible that we saw only around 14 kilometers or so and whatever is in eyesight of that, on the planet and we were looking at one of the poles and have zero idea what the rest of the place is like.

[Havok]

I think that acting like a six-year old when you're is confident that you're in a superior position is a pretty big flaw in character. He reminded me like something from the dregs of /b/, so infatuated with his l33t haxor skilz that he doesn't need to conform to basic standards of professionalism and behaviour.

Apparently, you can't stop being dense.

Do you think that they would let him take the test a third time if he acted "like a six year old" and didn't have the "standards of professionalism and behavior" the first two times? They obviously knew who he was, taking the test a third time, and were *GASP* surprised that he wasn't taking the test seriously the 3rd time.

A character flaw is something you have no control over. Kirk was purposely being smug. Childish? Maybe. But I'm sure the test givers were just as smug about their unbeatable test towards every student that took it.

[General Zod]

It's also possible that we saw only around 14 kilometers or so and whatever is in eyesight of that, on the planet and we were looking at one of the poles and have zero idea what the rest of the place is like.

On the other hand. . .

The term "class M" was first used in "The Cage" to describe the planet Talos IV.

Spock called the planet from TOS: "Return to Tomorrow" class M despite the atmosphere being ripped away, suggesting that class M goes beyond being able to support life. Alternately, he could have been saying that the planet prior to losing its atmosphere would have been categorized as class M.

According to the Star Trek: Star Charts, class M planets have ages that range from three to ten billion years and a diameter between 10,000 and 15,000 kilometers. They are located within the ecosphere of a star system.

[Androsphinx]

A character flaw is something you have no control over. Kirk was purposely being smug. Childish? Maybe.

Crap. A character flaw is something that people work on and change all the time.

Purposely being smug? That's not really a good thing, especially for someone ostensibly in charge of a starship. It doesn't matter what he was like the other two times - what we see here is that under certain circumstances, Kirk will act like a child. Not a good thing.

But I'm sure the test givers were just as smug about their unbeatable test towards every student that took it.

Really? I thought - any maybe you saw a different movie - that the test was designed and overseen by a character whose was logical and devoid of emotion.

[General Zod]

Really? I thought - any maybe you saw a different movie - that the test was designed and overseen by a character whose was logical and devoid of emotion.

Obviously you were watching a different movie. Spock in the movie was hardly devoid of emotion; they go as far as saying in the movie that Vulcans aren't devoid of emotions, they're just better at controlling them.

[Androsphinx]

Really? I thought - any maybe you saw a different movie - that the test was designed and overseen by a character whose was logical and devoid of emotion.

Obviously you were watching a different movie. Spock in the movie was hardly devoid of emotion; they go as far as saying in the movie that Vulcans aren't devoid of emotions, they're just better at controlling them.

Which only illustrates my point. When Spock lets his emotions get the better of him, he steps down from command because he recognises that he's unfit to command. Kirk? Not so much.

[Havok]

A character flaw is something you have no control over. Kirk was purposely being smug. Childish? Maybe.

Crap. A character flaw is something that people work on and change all the time.

Because they have no control over it. It unconsciously happens and you have to consciously work at fixing it. Doing it when you want to, is not a character flaw.

Purposely being smug? That's not really a good thing, especially for someone ostensibly in charge of a starship. It doesn't matter what he was like the other two times - what we see here is that under certain circumstances, Kirk will act like a child. Not a good thing.

Yes, when Kirk resets a cadet simulation so that he can win on the third time, Kirk may act like a child. (P.S. We've seen every Captain in Star Trek act this way. i.e. like a smug ass when they are actually in command of their vessels.)

But I'm sure the test givers were just as smug about their unbeatable test towards every student that took it.

Really? I thought - any maybe you saw a different movie - that the test was designed and overseen by a character whose was logical and devoid of emotion.

Apparently so, since you being so PISSED at Kirk's oh so childish behavior, caused you to miss the NOT Spock test givers. They even had dialogue. Dumbass.

[TimothyC]

I just got back, and truly enjoyed the movie. The best Star Trek I've seen on the big screen, and the best movie I've seen on the big screen in the past several years.

[Androsphinx]

Because they have no control over it. It unconsciously happens and you have to consciously work at fixing it. Doing it when you want to, is not a character flaw.

Wait, so there's nothing wrong with being an arsehole, as long as you do it deliberately?

Apparently so, since you being so PISSED at Kirk's oh so childish behavior, caused you to miss the NOT Spock test givers. They even had dialogue. Dumbass.

You mean the dialogue which included saying that Spock had programmed the test ?

[Havok]

Really? I thought - any maybe you saw a different movie - that the test was designed and overseen by a character whose was logical and devoid of emotion.

Obviously you were watching a different movie. Spock in the movie was hardly devoid of emotion; they go as far as saying in the movie that Vulcans aren't devoid of emotions, they're just better at controlling them.

Which only illustrates my point. When Spock lets his emotions get the better of him, he steps down from command because he recognises that he's unfit to command. Kirk? Not so much.

Wow you are a dipshit. Spock stepped down because he was emotionally involved with the SPECIFC mission at hand. By your logic, only computers should command Starfleet vessels, because anyone else may let their emotions out and get the better of them.

[Havok]

Because they have no control over it. It unconsciously happens and you have to consciously work at fixing it. Doing it when you want to, is not a character flaw.

Wait, so there's nothing wrong with being an arsehole, as long as you do it deliberately?

When you are doing it for laughs, and there really isn't anything on the line? Sure, I'll let it slide. But glad you at least undesrtand that part of the scene now.

Apparently so, since you being so PISSED at Kirk's oh so childish behavior, caused you to miss the NOT Spock test givers. They even had dialogue. Dumbass.

You mean the dialogue which included saying that Spock had programmed the test ?

Yeah, PROGRAMMED the test. He was not the test giver. There were two to three other instructors there that were actually observing Kirk and crew directly and hitting buttons and dials and dohickies. Spock was standing with his hands behind his back, looking like he was there just for observation.

Are you sure you saw the movie?

[Androsphinx]

When you are doing it for laughs, and there really isn't anything on the line? Sure, I'll let it slide. But glad you at least undesrtand that part of the scene now.

When there isn't anything on the line? He almost got kicked out of the academy!

But I'm sure the test givers were just as smug about their unbeatable test towards every student that took it.

Now we've worked out who you were talking about, I have even less idea what you actually mean. You tried to excuse Kirk's actions based on their actions (which, btw, means you accept that his actions were out of line). They were professional throughout, and any emotions they had - they kept it to themselves and acted like adults. Kirk didn't.

[erik_t]

If we accepted that Kirk is not perfect, will you quit bitching about this idiotic canard?

[Androsphinx]

If we accepted that Kirk is not perfect, will you quit bitching about this idiotic canard?

By definition a "canard" is false, so there's a certain definitional problem there .

More generally - of course. I really disliked Kirk's behaviour, and for that matter the test itself, which seems to have moved from being a "no-win" scenario to being designed to invoke fear, struck me as odd (but I'd have to see the movie again to be sure, and that won't happen). Others are welcome to disagree.

[Havok]

When you are doing it for laughs, and there really isn't anything on the line? Sure, I'll let it slide. But glad you at least undesrtand that part of the scene now.

When there isn't anything on the line? He almost got kicked out of the academy!

Really? All I saw in the movie was that he was being questioned about cheating. And if we want to evoke TOS, what he did leads to a commendation for original thinking.

But I'm sure the test givers were just as smug about their unbeatable test towards every student that took it.

Now we've worked out who you were talking about, I have even less idea what you actually mean. You tried to excuse Kirk's actions based on their actions (which, btw, means you accept that his actions were out of line). They were professional throughout, and any emotions they had - they kept it to themselves and acted like adults. Kirk didn't.

You know what... I'm sick of this statement... please show that Kirk did not act like an adult. Please reference the dialogue that was sooo out of line that they could only be deemed said by a child, please point out the behavior of the same.

[Stofsk]

I liked Kirk in the KM scene. Fuck all this talk about 'acting childish' or 'not taking it seriously'. If there is no way to win the test, it has no purpose. Progamming an encounter that you cannot win... I'm sorry, it's supposed to be a character test? What fucking rubbish.

Kirk displayed contempt for something contemptible.

[Havok]

I liked Kirk in the KM scene. Fuck all this talk about 'acting childish' or 'not taking it seriously'. If there is no way to win the test, it has no purpose. Progamming an encounter that you cannot win... I'm sorry, it's supposed to be a character test? What fucking rubbish.

Kirk displayed contempt for something contemptible.

Exactly. If anything I misused smug and should have used that or mocking. It is also one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

[Androsphinx]

I liked Kirk in the KM scene. Fuck all this talk about 'acting childish' or 'not taking it seriously'. If there is no way to win the test, it has no purpose. Progamming an encounter that you cannot win... I'm sorry, it's supposed to be a character test? What fucking rubbish.

Have you seen Wrath of Kahn? The whole movie is about the no-win scenario.

[Havok]

I liked Kirk in the KM scene. Fuck all this talk about 'acting childish' or 'not taking it seriously'. If there is no way to win the test, it has no purpose. Progamming an encounter that you cannot win... I'm sorry, it's supposed to be a character test? What fucking rubbish.

Have you seen Wrath of Kahn? The whole movie is about the no-win scenario.

Yeah and about how Kirk DOESN'T believe in it and escapes it. Just like in....



He also acts real smug and gets overridden by his emotion. That's why Khan won.


Oh wait.

[Androsphinx]

What are you talking about? Kirk doesn't escape the no-win in Wrath of Kahn. He saves his family, but the Genesis Device is activated. Oh, and Spock dies, in what he explicitly calls his no-win scenario. The whole point of Wrath of Kahn is that there -are- no-win situations.

[Darth Quorthon]

I got around to seeing it on saturday, and I must say I liked it. It wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I felt the good far outweighed the bad. I felt it had a good mixture of action, emotion, and humor, with just enough nods to the original series. My mom even said she wants to see it, so I might even go see it again. Most fun I've had at the movies in quite some time.

[Havok]

What are you talking about? Kirk doesn't escape the no-win in Wrath of Kahn. He saves his family, but the Genesis Device is activated. Oh, and Spock dies, in what he explicitly calls his no-win scenario. The whole point of Wrath of Kahn is that there -are- no-win situations.

Oh wow. Have you seen any of the Star Trek movies? You see, Kirk does win, he just doesn't know it because Spock doesn't have time to explain his plan.
He defeats Khan, saves the Enterprise, (well Spock does) keeps Genesis from being used to destroy anything and he keeps his best friend. Where is the no win there?

The "No win" scenario in TWOK is just as real as in the KM and Kirk's belief, or non belief, is confirmed.