Star Trek 09 review thread

PST: discuss Star Trek without "versus" arguments.

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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Nephtys »

Stark wrote:Explain how 'I will repeat this test over and over, eventually cheating, because I must always win' tells us positive things about him? It was characterful in the old series because hey, Kirk really is a headstrong moron, and it's arguably characterful here because hey, Kirk is a headstrong moron, but it's not 'good'.

After his first test, the instructors would already know where his obsession with success and 'innovative' thinking got him; dead.

It's worth remembering that to measure anything psychological you can't ask direct questions, which is why I speculate the KM scenario isn't really about winning or losing at all (which is why it's so quaint and American that Kirk is success obsessed). His eventual result is as valid as me sitting an IQ test three times and cheating on the last one - WHAT A GENIUS I TURNED OUT TO BE!
Alternatively, you can think that he got extra favors for who he was. Everyone clearly knew what his dad did, and respected him for it. Pike was well respected to receive their finest new ship (and already on the short list for admirals), and was presumably a patron.

Incidentally, I guess this brings up another point: Were those four he bar-fought with majoring in Internal Security Studies, or did they get busted to being the bridge cops?
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Skylon »

I must say, I really liked Pike's portrayal in this film. He had a quiet, cool competence about him throughout the film. Not to mention he still is a quick draw, even with a worm in his fucking body.

"The Cage" was Pike on a shitty day...this is Pike as he was (I know, I know...two different realities and all).

Even if the wheelchair thing is permanent, Pike got a better deal than his prime universe counterpart.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

Overall, I thought it was a good movie. Second or perhaps third in my personal rankings of the Star Trek films, behind Wrath of Khan, close with The Voyage Home (which I haven't seen in a while). And it provides plenty of Romulanwank fanfic material based on Nero realizing at some point in those twenty-five years that hey, his home actually exists here and he doesn't have to live on a poorly-lit and OSHA-non-compliant mining ship forever, and maybe he could protect his home by giving them futuretech a century in advance and planet-busting abilities.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Havok »

Stark wrote:Explain how 'I will repeat this test over and over, eventually cheating, because I must always win' tells us positive things about him? It was characterful in the old series because hey, Kirk really is a headstrong moron, and it's arguably characterful here because hey, Kirk is a headstrong moron, but it's not 'good'.
First I'd say calling Kirk of either universe a "moron" is a bit of a stretch. Second, who said it was positive. It tells you about him and what he is going to do.
After his first test, the instructors would already know where his obsession with success and 'innovative' thinking got him; dead.
Which is exactly where every cadet ends up, so that doesn't really tell them anything. And of course, you are assuming that what he did in the third and final test, was exactly what he tried in the first two when we have no idea how he acted in those two.
It's worth remembering that to measure anything psychological you can't ask direct questions, which is why I speculate the KM scenario isn't really about winning or losing at all
Did you pick up rocket science while I wasn't looking? :P They in fact, say that in the movie... and in TWOK.
His eventual result is as valid as me sitting an IQ test three times and cheating on the last one - WHAT A GENIUS I TURNED OUT TO BE!
Agreed. But as I said, the commendation from the TOS timeline was for original thinking: having the virtue of never been tried. Good? Bad? Could be both depending on how you look at it. It also can be neither.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Stark »

Havok wrote:[First I'd say calling Kirk of either universe a "moron" is a bit of a stretch. Second, who said it was positive. It tells you about him and what he is going to do.
But what he's going to do is STUPID. :)
Which is exactly where every cadet ends up, so that doesn't really tell them anything. And of course, you are assuming that what he did in the third and final test, was exactly what he tried in the first two when we have no idea how he acted in those two.
So it's not Kirks Magic Power, is it? (ps, the writers think it is; the movie was one giant ode to OMG BREAK TEH RULEZ = WINTRONS)
Did you pick up rocket science while I wasn't looking? :P They in fact, say that in the movie... and in TWOK.
And if YOU'D paid attention, you'd have noticed that Kirk's cheating highlighted his -crippling personality flaw-, that in a sane world would bar him from positions of authority outside a stockmarket.
Agreed. But as I said, the commendation from the TOS timeline was for original thinking: having the virtue of never been tried. Good? Bad? Could be both depending on how you look at it. It also can be neither.
The TOS timeline has the benefit of us not seeing what a hopelessly narrow-minded, childish retard he was back then. The new movie leaves no such grace; we know he's an idiot and his 'plan' (ps what people refer to as his 'plan' was OMG RAR BAD MAN KILL MAH DAD I GON GET HIM) would have destroyed the ship to no end; only Plot Coincidence saved him.

That's what we in the business call bad decision-making. But no, in magical TV land being single-minded, selfish and good on exams = hero. LOL!
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Bounty »

Also, the Enterprise's basement is equipped with a giant grinder designed to dice remarkably clean water.
The side of the tube says "INERT REACTANT", so it's not a sewage system, it's part of reactor. I didn't have as much trouble with the spinning blades (hey, it's a turbine) as I did with there being no grate in front of the spinning blades to keep scrap from messing up the mechanism (and lost Scots from getting diced, of course).

Then I remember there could easily have been a grate and Kirk was overreacting. Whatever.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Stark »

Since the red 'impulse drive' appears to simply be a radiator now, I figured it was drive reaction mass until the spinny of doom showed up.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by wautd »

Jade Owl wrote:
That about it? Why attack the Klingons?

This is a leftover from a whole subplot that ws filmed but got cut from the movie. Spoiler
At some point in the 25 years since his arrival, Nero was captured by the Klingons and sent to Rura Penthe. The battle Uhura mentions in the movie is the Narada plowing thru the Klingon fleet to bust him out of there. However, I’m not entirely sure if this is supposed to happen before of after Old Spock’s arrival into that timeline.

My guess is that the Narada’s crew knew that Nero was at Rura Penthe and in typical Romulan fashion, where looking for a subtle or sneaky way of busting him out, since even with a ship as powerful as the Narada there’s no way to be sure the Klingon guards wont just kill him as soon as they see the Narada coming. But when Ayel realized that Spock’s arrival was imminent they probably thru caution to the wind and just went in guns blazing. Of course all this is entirely speculation on my part.

Furthermore, I’m beginning to wonder if Nero’s incarceration at Rura Penthe might be related to the Narada’s long period of inactivity.
Anyway, if I'm reading things right, the battle between the Narada and the Klingons at Rura Penthe was supposed to be in the movie, so I'm hoping it was finished enough to eventually end up in the DVD.

Still plowing trough this tread (seen the movie last night), and perhaps I'll make a little review of my own.

On why attack the Klingons (in case it hasn't been mentioned yet), why not simply assume the same reason Nero attacks the Federation? A weakened Klingon empire means less competition against the Romulan empire. Weren't they even at war during TOS?
This timeline reboot will probably make the Romulans as the main villains later on, since both the Federation and the Klingons lost a good bunch of their ships.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by El Moose Monstero »

So I've been thinking about my reaction to the film, and I don't know how much of an old-trek fanboy I'm being, but I think half of the problem was that they spent so long trying to appease the fans, but doing it in the wrong way for me, opting to make lots of continuity references and show all the old characters rather than actually make a film which actually respects what has gone before and takes the important bits to make a good film in its own right which stands alone. These are my thoughts,

1) Less characters, more character.
I would have quite liked to have given a total pass on half of the characters introduced in this film; screw scotty, chekov and sulu, who basically were poor cariacatures or contributed very little to the film. You're always going to piss off some fans, so don't patronise the rest of the fans by cramming all the characters in there just to set off the nostalgia alarm. If you're going to do sequels, you've got plenty of time to do a proper introduction to the other characters, rather than ice-planet-bollocks.

Losing half of the pointless introductions to characters which only the star trek fans are going to miss (and if the rest of the film was done right, they wouldn't miss them at all) would have allowed much more time to actually do something character based with Kirk, Spock, mccoy and maybe uhura (who did have some sort of role to play). For starters, aside from start a fight with spock (only because future spock told him to rather than anything more useful) and demonstrate a standard 'gung-ho-noone-left-behind' mentality, what did kirk actually do that anyone else couldn't have? He recognised the danger, ok. He got spock to fight it instead of regrouping (and should probably have been tossed in the brig for it), he beamed aboard and shot some people, but we didn't see any of the strategic thinking or anything which might merit his promotion at the end of the film. I'd have liked a bit more of a mixture of action hero lasers and some actual strategy-ish stuff - maybe have him come up with chekov's moon hiding idea instead.

2) Lose the whole young kirk as a child thing.
Mainly because it was Treasure Planet round 2. If you've not seen that, a young angsty teenager who is angry at the world because his dad isn't around rides around on a rocket scooter, breaking into industrial complexes and driving over cliff edges and getting caught by the police, before being offered a chance to do something greater (admittedly this latter bit is a paraphrase, as it's not so much offered as happens to fall in his lap) and ends up going off to space to learn to be a man. Sound familiar? It was cliched then, and it was just as cliched now. Why not start with Kirk just being some waster student at starfleet academy who is destined to end up on some garbage hauler or sweeping up who then gets inspired by Pike and swaps to captain-command school or something, if you must have teenage muted hero kirk.

3) Lose old Spock. Or move him.
The ice planet scene really did nothing for me. Even the flashbacks broke me out of the film because they felt out of place. Nero could have been the mechanism for Kirk and Spock finding out about their past, rather than Spock. You could still have had Spock for red matter or whatever, but you could kill him at the start - have him and the Narada emerge at a point not when Kirk is young, but when he is a waster at starfleet, so have his dad get killed on the Kelvin after intercepting Spock and the red matter, only to surrender himself and Spock and unknowingly, the red matter, to Nero to save everyone else on the ship. (No win scenario?)

The cut scene in the klingon prison would have been an ideal mechanism for the story that Spock told via mindmeld - have Nero captured, have him telling a prisoner or something about where he's from (or even the klingon equivalent of the prison psychiatrist) (you could even show flashbacks reflected in his eye or something like that, to show it happening), do it early on in the film so it doesn't throw off the action half way through, and then have the rest of his crew come and bust him out. And then instead of old Spock telling kirk what to do, have Nero capture Kirk and Spock at some point, and reminisce about how in his time, these two are heroes, doing impossible things, stopping the romulans at every turn etc, and now they won't.

---------

I enjoyed it, but not as much as I wanted to, but now we've bypassed the 'initial prequel introductory stuff', maybe later films can just be good films in their own right rather than trying to appease the fans. But I'm in the minority, everyone I've spoken to has enjoyed it, and my sister, who never touched star trek before, is now itching to see the other films, so I guess better to have me being a bit dissappointed than have everyone else dissappointed!
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Patroklos »

Incidentally, I guess this brings up another point: Were those four he bar-fought with majoring in Internal Security Studies, or did they get busted to being the bridge cops?
Perhaps that was just the watch the pulled at the time. Its not like the star command crew stand that same watch and that watch only 24 hours a day. When I was a JO I rotated through several bridge and combat watches in a given week, and during specific drills when the best at any particular station was on hand everyone else filled in where needed.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Ted C »

Bounty wrote:The side of the tube says "INERT REACTANT...
I missed that when I saw the movie. I think that's the most hilarious oxymoron I've heard in a long time.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by tim31 »

Just rewatched it. The big piece of hull at the Enterprise makes contact with over Vulcan had the markings USS (and I could only make out the letters) OWE, but I may be remembering it wrong; it might have been the Walcott(I really remember seeing a W). Memory Alpha seems to think the saucer debris was the Farragut.

I also thought I saw Winona Kirk wearing an Academy grad ring, although it could have been an elaborate wedding band/engagement ring.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Jade Owl »

Nephtys wrote:9. Virtually all of Kirk's classmates, including Greenie, are probably dead. Downer. Oh well! It's time for a medal ceremony!
I just re-watched it again last night, and I’d say there’s a 50/50 chance that Gaila survived the Battle of Vulcan. The name of the ship to which she was assigned is never said on screen. Pretty much the only thing we know for a fact about Gaila’s posting is that she was very happy with it. As I see it, this means one of two things:
  1. Gaila and Uhura are very close friends and Gaila was excited about serving in the same ship as her buddy. This would mean that she was posted to the USS Farragut like Uhura originally was, and is therefore probably dead.
  2. Gaila was excited because she got assigned to the USS Enterprise, which as not only the newest, most modern ship in the armada, but also Starfleet’s new flagship would be without a doubt the most prestigious posting possible (Uhura’s reaction to not getting the Enterprise certainly seems to indicate this). In this case there’s a very good chance that she survived the movie.
Besides these, there’s another detail that might point in the direction of Gaila having been posted on the Enterprise, but is way too subjective. A friend of mine interpreted Uhura’s reaction to Gaila’s peppiness and the subsequent hissy fit about the assignments as something along the lines of: "The Academy's bicycle got assigned to the Enterprise and I got the Farragut?!?!". If you ask me, I think he's reading too much in Uhura's reaction, but it's not that far fetched.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Starglider »

Well, finally got to see this. My wife hated it, she said it was really confusing, virtually mindless and trivialised her favourite characters (she also hated Transformers). I didn't find the plot confusing, possibly because I'd already read a synopsis, but I admit that the 'drunken blurry camera' visual effects style was grating. The writing was very much by-the-numbers; the main thing that annoyed me wasn't the relatively weak villain, it was that we didn't get to see many examples of actual competence from Kirk to justify him getting so many breaks from other characters.

Still, I think it's a better film than Nemesis; it entertained and didn't frustrate too much. It reminded me a lot of Batman Begins; that also seemed like a confused, blurry mess to me, but the production standards were high and it promised good things in the sequel. I hope the next film is Trek's 'Dark Night', where they actually work out what the core of the franchise is supposed to be about (venturing into the unknown and thought-provoking stories, for Trek).

Right before seeing Trek 2009 we watched the fan film 'Of Gods and Men' and I have to say the similarities are uncanny.
Spoiler
It also has time travel, an alternate universe version of TOS, a semi-pacifist Vulcan getting blow up by a superweapon and a big space battle against a supership.
Despite having about a thousandth of the (effective) budget, Of Gods and Men was just as much fun as Trek 2009, and considerably more interesting on a character and plot level. The space battles weren't as pretty, but they were much clearer and better coreographed. I'd strongly recommend it (it's a free download).
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Havok »

Nephtys wrote:9. Virtually all of Kirk's classmates, including Greenie, are probably dead. Downer. Oh well! It's time for a medal ceremony!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Man, I never even thought about that. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Themightytom »

tim31 wrote:Just rewatched it. The big piece of hull at the Enterprise makes contact with over Vulcan had the markings USS (and I could only make out the letters) OWE, but I may be remembering it wrong; it might have been the Walcott(I really remember seeing a W). Memory Alpha seems to think the saucer debris was the Farragut.

I also thought I saw Winona Kirk wearing an Academy grad ring, although it could have been an elaborate wedding band/engagement ring.
Dear sweet Lord! it must have been the USS OW! I thought for sure that name was bullet proof..

oh well we'll replace it with the USS Titanic and the Uss "I don't care for Gypsies and I don't fear their magic"
(The name on that one obviously wraps around the saucer a few times.)
Still, I think it's a better film than Nemesis; it entertained and didn't frustrate too much. It reminded me a lot of Batman Begins; that also seemed like a confused, blurry mess to me, but the production standards were high and it promised good things in the sequel. I hope the next film is Trek's 'Dark Night', where they actually work out what the core of the franchise is supposed to be about (venturing into the unknown and thought-provoking stories, for Trek).
I thought it was better as well, I did however just see a trailer where they stated "Star Trek is this yar's Iron Man!" at which I was surprised, wouldn't you want to compare it to Batman, rather than the movie batman overshadowed?

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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Ted C »

Themightytom wrote:I did however just see a trailer where they stated "Star Trek is this yar's Iron Man!" at which I was surprised, wouldn't you want to compare it to Batman, rather than the movie batman overshadowed?
The Dark Knight was expected to be a huge success; Iron Man was something of a breakout.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by JME2 »

Havok wrote:
Nephtys wrote:9. Virtually all of Kirk's classmates, including Greenie, are probably dead. Downer. Oh well! It's time for a medal ceremony!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Man, I never even thought about that. :lol: :lol:
It'd also be amusing if Finnegan was still Kirk's academy rival in this new reality; if so, it makes you wonder if he might also have gone boom over Vulcan during the battle.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Stark »

Starglider wrote:The writing was very much by-the-numbers; the main thing that annoyed me wasn't the relatively weak villain, it was that we didn't get to see many examples of actual competence from Kirk to justify him getting so many breaks from other characters.
In this regard I agree with others about the Child Kirk thing; it worked as a contrast to Spock, but it didn't just make him a brat; it made him a learning-disabled suicidal brat who HATES HIS STEPDAD RAR. It was eye-rolling for me, but it could have been cut to the phone conversation and left there and communicated what it did without the suicidal stupidity and hatred that drives him.

Which, now that I think about it, lead to my reply to you - I'm glad someone else noticed Kirk's 'command potential' 'adptitude scores' 'out of the box' 'breaking the rules' hero-ness boiled down to 'let's chase Nero and be utterly destroyed'. He had NO PLAN. His plan was FIGHT THE BADGUY. His plan was DOOMED and everyone on the ship was DOOMED and his incompetence was astonishing. His father was a far greater man; personally skilled, actually heroic, concerned with others.

If this had been intentional, it would have been great writing. It isn't; the message of the movie is that Kirk is a Great Man even though he's saved only by the astonishing plot coincidence of being kicked off the ship right next to Future Spock and not eaten.

Which leads me to my dislike of the writing. Nero's ship is depicted as totally invincible; it's weapons really aren't that great (it took some long time to destroy Kelvin) and the ram didn't do shit (whereas Spockmobile just pew-pewed and drove through the same structure). It annihilated the Fedder fleet in minutes at most and took no damage. This means that when Spock says 'meet the fleet, bash Nero', the viewers KNOW he's obviously wrong; Earth will likely be destroyed and the fleet still has no chance. If Nero's ship was even SLIGHTLY damaged, the viewer could actually see the difference between these men; Kirk, insistent on taking the glory, unable to let go, unable to accept failure or loss, narrow-minded, obsessed with rescuing Pike etc, and Spock bent on the safer, more sensible course, ready to let Earth be destroyed, playing the odds. What we got was too clear; without Plot Magic there was no right answer. Kirk is a hero and Spock is a coward. Thrilling. :roll:
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

Post by Big Orange »

Here is a negative review by Chris J. Miller (with major spoilers, redundant I know). Here is a excerpt:
What we’re left with is like a palimpsest of real Star Trek, scraped clean and written over, simplified and dumbed down to suit the worst Holywood stereotypes of what mass audiences want. The plot conflicts are big and obvious, not complex and subtle. The humor is broad, not witty. The moral dilemmas are nonexistent. The character nuances are trimmed away. The promised “optimistic” future of wonder and exploration and human potential is simply nowhere in sight.
Here is another lukewarm review posted in greater detail:
Star Trek Babies
The sci-fi classic resurrected again, with a handsome young cast and a juvenile script

Star Trek **(out of five) Directed by J.J. Abrams Written by Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman
By J.R. Jones

Now that Star Trek is a giant entertainment franchise and fictional universe, encompassing five TV series, 11 movies, and hundreds of novels, I sometimes wish it would just go away. But I’m old enough to remember how strange the original Star Trek seemed back in 1966, when TV shows about interplanetary travel were dominated by kiddie fare like Lost in Space. My father, then in his early 30s, tuned in to Star Trek on NBC every Thursday night, and I would gawk at its weird creatures and special effects without really understanding what was going on. When I got a little older and picked up on the show in reruns, I was better able to appreciate its thoughtful writing and fantastic concepts. Star Trek, I decided, was made for grown-ups: with its mixed-gender, multiracial crew and veiled references to militarism and the cold war, it seemed to forecast not the distant future but the immediate one. (And, OK, those velour tunics with the insignia were really cool.)

Producing a space opera for adult viewers was an uphill battle in the mid-60s, and the original Star Trek left behind a showbiz story thick with irony. Gene Roddenberry, the cop-turned-TV-writer who dreamed up the show, envisioned it as hard-core science fiction, but when his bosses at Desilu pitched the show to the networks they carefully downplayed the more cerebral aspects. Star Trek was dogged by low ratings throughout its three-year run, and NBC pressured Desilu to discard the more conceptual sci-fi elements in favor of action/adventure. Roddenberry worked hard to recruit smart and imaginative sci-fi writers, but after two years he left the series and it descended into silliness. NBC moved it to late Friday night, the worst possible time slot for its core audience of young adults, and then killed it. According to Roddenberry, a demographics researcher who understood the advertising value of this audience told an uncomprehending NBC vice president, “Congratulations, you’ve just gotten rid of your most successful and important program.”

The incessant pull of juvenilia must have done a number on the writers’ and producers’ psyches, because some of the most alarming Star Trek episodes dealt with the tension between children and adults. In “Charlie X,” the second episode broadcast, the Enterprise takes custody of a teenage boy, Charlie, who’s been recovered from the surface of a planet after being stranded there alone for 14 years. The ultimate spoiled brat, Charlie turns out to have fearsome telekinetic powers: he can melt objects and make people disappear, and in one case he turns a young woman into an old hag. “And the Children Shall Lead,” broadcast in October 1968, opens with Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, and Dr. McCoy answering a distress call from a scientific expedition on another planet; when they arrive, they discover that all the adults are either raving mad or dead by suicide. Liberal do-gooders that they are, the Starfleet officers collect the surviving children and bring them on board the ship, not realizing the kids have the power to summon up an evil demon from the planet’s past. The universe, it seems, is filled with menacing orphans.

As scary as these little monsters may be, they’re nothing compared to the prospect of aging. One episode that never fails to freak me out is “Miri,” broadcast in October 1966. Again a landing crew from the Enterprise beams down to a strange planet to find all the adults dead, this time from a horrible plague. The children are fine, but once they hit puberty their immune system gives way to the disease; they begin to collect awful blue sores, go insane with rage, and finally die. Kirk and company, infected with the plague and cut off from the Enterprise, implore the children to help them, but the kids are naturally suspicious of grown-ups—or, as they call them, “grups.” From there it’s only a short leap to “The Deadly Years,” broadcast in December 1967. This time the Enterprise officers beam down to a planet and contract a radiation sickness that causes them to age 30 years in a day. Kirk grows so forgetful that he’s relieved of his command and must collaborate with the similarly doddering Spock, McCoy, and Scotty on a serum that will reverse the aging process.

Unfortunately no such serum existed when Paramount Pictures reunited the original cast for Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979). By that time, some of them were too chunky to look good in tight velour, and the old Starfleet uniforms were replaced with loose-fitting pastel togs, then roomy brown jackets that accommodated the stars’ increasing girth through six sequels. William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, DeForrest Kelley, and James Doohan didn’t age quite as handsomely as their characters did in “The Deadly Years.” By the time the old crew handed off the reins to the Next Generation cast in Star Trek: Generations (1994), Doohan was 74 and way too big to fit into that narrow tube where Scotty always used to operate on the ship. The old Star Trek may have pondered the immediate future, but the movies always reminded me what that future meant on a personal level: hair loss, weight gain, sagging flesh, and the grave. (Our 80-year mission: to boldly go where everyone has gone before.)

With the underwhelming Star Trek: Nemesis (2002), the movie franchise seemed to have petered out at last. But now Paramount has handed the old warhorse over to a fresh team of producers and sunk $150 million into a summer blockbuster, recasting the original roles with good-looking young actors who should fit into their uniforms just fine for at least another 20 years. A prequel to the TV series, Star Trek follows the characters as they make their way through Starfleet Academy and get their first assignments aboard the Enterprise. The script panders to middle-aged Trekkers by sketching the outlines of the characters’ later relationships and resurrecting the ship’s original commander, Christopher Pike (Bruce Greenwood), who appeared in the original Star Trek pilot. But the movie’s aim couldn’t be clearer: to find Star Trek a younger and wider audience for the 21st century. Directed by J.J. Abrams (creator of TV’s Lost and Alias), the new Star Trek is a relatively mindless thrill ride that would have made the old NBC execs grin from ear to ear. My 11-year-old niece can’t wait to see it.

Handing the familiar characters over to a bunch of kids does give the movie a welcome jolt, and the actors seem to have a blast cutting the heroes down to adolescent size. Chris Pine plays young hellion James T. Kirk with a fine approximation of Shatner’s preening self-regard, and Zachary Quinto makes Spock—already an officer under Captain Pike—even more of a supercilious prick than Nimoy did in his prime. The back stories are standard issue: Kirk is traumatized by the death of his father, a Starfleet officer who sacrificed his life to save his passengers, and Spock is bent out of shape because kids on his native Vulcan bullied him for having a human mother. But the screenwriters have taken advantage of the chronological rollback to amp up the young lust, as Kirk and Spock vie for the physical attentions of the smoking-hot Uhura (Zoe Saldana). At the climax, when Spock is dispatched on a dangerous mission and Uhura makes out with him on the transporter pad, entire galaxies of teen melodrama seemed to open before me.

Star Trek may guarantee Paramount a bright future, at least for the next couple installments, but it’s mostly about the past, squeezing the last few drops of magic from the TV classic. The main conflict pits the Enterprise crew against a rebel leader of the Romulans, a bellicose race that was hauled out on the old show whenever no one could come up with anything more interesting. There’s little evidence of the thought-provoking, concept-driven sci-fi that made the early Star Trek episodes so engaging; perhaps our math-and-science-challenged youngsters couldn’t be trusted to follow it. The only exception is a standard time-travel twist in which Kirk encounters a wizened Spock from the future (Nimoy, who’s been with Star Trek longer and complained about it more loudly than any other performer). When the young Spock and the old one commiserate at the very end, Star Trek begins to hint at the sort of cosmic puzzles that animated the 60s show. As Roddenberry and the best of his writers understood, that sort of wonder can make even the old feel young again.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

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From a Q&A with the writers;

http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/05/ ... addressed/
WHY TIME TRAVEL?

Many (including myself) have wondered what the point was of going to such great lengths to reconcile existing Star Trek cannon with a new story. Why bother with all this alternate-timeline hooey? If you’re rebooting the franchise and starting over, then just start over! The problem with that, according to Kurtzman & Orci, is that audiences might have assumed this new movie was simply an attempt to tell a story about Kirk & Spock from back before the original series, and everything that happened in Trek lore is still destined to happen. Where’s the fun in watching this crew take on the galaxy if we know Kirk will eventually be killed by Soren, Spock will become an ambassador to Romulus and everyone else lives? By history being altered, nothing has yet been written – Kirk really could die on the next mission and Khan might end up selling shoes. With a whole new timeline, stories are no longer beholden to “established” history and while everything we know and love is still there, how it plays out is no longer written. If you’ll pardon the cliche, essentially it means that everything old is new again!

THE CORVETTE

A deleted scene established that Kirk’s stepdad is a real bad mofo, and he forces young Kirk to wax & polish the car. He threatens that if he finds even one spec of dirt, he’s going to beat the kid senseless (I still think it’s a dumb scene, but at least this provides a lot more motivation for it). Other tidbits about this scene: The Beastie Boys song may be a blatant attempt to make Star Trek seem more hip, but if you look closely at the dashboard, the station playing it is listed as ”oldies.” Also, what the hell is a cliff like this doing in famously flat Iowa? Again, close eyes will see that the sign Kirk blows through reads “quarry” (i.e. a man-made pit). Another scene of 10 year old Kirk that didn’t make the final cut (I’m not sure if it was filmed or not) also involved a young Carol Marcus! Props to the boys for diving so deeply into the Trek mythos (they both admit to being Wrath of Khan junkies).

FAMILIES ON BOARD?

A fan asked why George Kirk’s pregnant wife was on board the USS Kelvin, since families weren’t supposed to be brought on board until the Next Gendays. “Because she’s a Starfleet officer” explained the dynamic duo. This is also alluded to in another line about Kirk’s mother being off-world.

25 YEAR WAIT

After the incident with the USS Kelvin, did Nero and his crew really just hang around the black hole for 25 years, playing Fizbin and waiting for Spock to emerge? Couldn’t they have used that time to, say, help Romulus avert eventual disaster? Turns out a major cut scene explains what happened during that time frame. After being rammed by the Kelvin, Nero’s ship was crippled; a convoy of Klingon Warbirds captured the crew and held them in a prison camp for all those years. Eventually the Romulans escaped, reclaimed their ship, blew up 47 Klingon vessels and returned to their mission (some of this is discussed in dialog which remains in the film). The good news is that these scenes were completed and there is hope they may surface on the DVD.

COINCIDENCE ON HOTH

The motherlode of the film’s many handy coincidences involves the banished Kirk conveniently running into Spock Prime (as the writers coined him early on) in his cave on Delta Vega. Much to my surprise and delight, even this jaw-dropping moment has an explanation! In the minds of the creators, the focus of the plot is that Nero’s destruction of the timeline has altered history to the point that the all important friendship of Kirk and Spock is now threatened. If these two don’t come together, the fabric of space and time itself is endangered (as we have witnessed by the universe itself being saved countless times over the last 40 years). Kirk “coincidentally” running into Spock Prime is an example of fate itself trying to bring these two together. That’s how important it is. In fact a line about this was included during Spock Prime’s mind-meld speech, but was removed at the last minute (the writers said this particular was labored over more than any other section of the script and they now regret not including the line about fate). While this doesn’t completely forgive a very hackneyed sequence, it does address the most egregious moment in the film and I appreciate that an attempt was made to address it. In the wake of criticism over this scene, perhaps the line will be restored for the DVD release. It would make a world of difference.

NEXT ON JERRY SPRINGER

A lot of people found themselves scratching their heads over the unlikely romantic pairing of Spock and Uhura. The inspiration for this came from the original series, where apparently there are scenes of these two flirting (if anyone reading this remembers which episodes they’re talking about, please fill us in). Since the rough-and-tumble badboy is always the one to get the girl, the writers wanted to pair Uhura up with the less obvious choice. Besides, since Uhura is a smart, mature woman, they felt that she would probably gravitate towards the more interesting, intellectually mature man.

GREEN GIRL BLUES

There was a lot more material further explaining Kirk’s relationship with the hot green chick. Since she worked in the computer lab, Kirk was essentially sleeping with her to gain access to the simulation computer so he could cheat on the Kobyashi Maru. In a cut scene, Kirk tells her that if she gets an email from him while he’s taking the test, she should open it; she does, and it launches a virus which installs his cheat-patch.

SPOCK, MEET SPOCK

Why didn’t the universe explode when Spock Prime met New Spock? What about all the time-honored SF theories that going back in time and meeting yourself will lead to anti matter explosions, tears in the fabric of space/time and dogs and cats living together? In doing their research on the latest fringe science theories, the current thinking is that events which create huge paradoxes (like going back in time and killing your grandfather) no longer will result in cataclysm, but the instant creation of an alternate universe which allows for the new reality (and I’ll back them up on this, since I’ve read material on the subject that basically says the same thing).

ALL BLOWED UP

Why did Kirk feel the need to fire all weapons at a doomed ship? After all, Nero’s vessel was mere seconds away from being crushed inside the black hole. Not true, said the Trek scribes – Nero’s ship was built to travel through black holes, so if Kirk hadn’t done anything, the bad guys would have slipped away and emerged god knows where (and when) ready to do more evil.

LENS FLARES: THE MOVIE

Why on Earth did JJ Abrams turn Star Trek into a two-hour commercial for lens flare plugins? I have to admit, upon my second viewing of the film I found this visual motif to be highly distracting and irritating. Flares, reflections and luminous ghosts simply appear everywhere, even without any obvious sources. The reason? JJ wanted a visual metaphor that stated “we have a bright future ahead of us.” No, I’m not making this up.

EXPLOSION SURFING

Would creating a big explosion on the event horizon of a black hole really create a shockwave that the Enterprise could surf to safety? No. But the explosion would alter the nature of the event horizon and create a space-time ripple that would… do something. Ok, my memory of this answer is a little shaky, but the pair did impress the crowd with a well researched solution that did make sense – you’ll have to listen to the podcast for the details.



Overall, I have to offer props to Kurtzman & Orci for having good answers to just about every moment in the film that elicited a “WTF?” Had some of these cut scenes and dialog been retained, the truck-sized holes in plot and logic might have just been big enough to squeeze a Smart car through. I’m impressed that so much thought did go into moments that most people wouldn’t think twice about – but, then again, give me a million dollars and a year to write a Star Trek movie and I guarantee you I’ll do a whole lot a thinkin’!
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

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The motherlode of the film’s many handy coincidences involves the banished Kirk conveniently running into Spock Prime (as the writers coined him early on) in his cave on Delta Vega. Much to my surprise and delight, even this jaw-dropping moment has an explanation! In the minds of the creators, the focus of the plot is that Nero’s destruction of the timeline has altered history to the point that the all important friendship of Kirk and Spock is now threatened. If these two don’t come together, the fabric of space and time itself is endangered (as we have witnessed by the universe itself being saved countless times over the last 40 years). Kirk “coincidentally” running into Spock Prime is an example of fate itself trying to bring these two together. That’s how important it is. In fact a line about this was included during Spock Prime’s mind-meld speech, but was removed at the last minute (the writers said this particular was labored over more than any other section of the script and they now regret not including the line about fate). While this doesn’t completely forgive a very hackneyed sequence, it does address the most egregious moment in the film and I appreciate that an attempt was made to address it. In the wake of criticism over this scene, perhaps the line will be restored for the DVD release. It would make a world of difference.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read (and I learned Talmud for five years).
"what huge and loathsome abnormality was the Sphinx originally carven to represent? Accursed is the sight, be it in dream or not, that revealed to me the supreme horror - the Unknown God of the Dead, which licks its colossal chops in the unsuspected abyss, fed hideous morsels by soulless absurdities that should not exist" - Harry Houdini "Under the Pyramids"

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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

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Why on Earth did JJ Abrams turn Star Trek into a two-hour commercial for lens flare plugins? I have to admit, upon my second viewing of the film I found this visual motif to be highly distracting and irritating. Flares, reflections and luminous ghosts simply appear everywhere, even without any obvious sources. The reason? JJ wanted a visual metaphor that stated “we have a bright future ahead of us.” No, I’m not making this up.
Second stupidest.
"what huge and loathsome abnormality was the Sphinx originally carven to represent? Accursed is the sight, be it in dream or not, that revealed to me the supreme horror - the Unknown God of the Dead, which licks its colossal chops in the unsuspected abyss, fed hideous morsels by soulless absurdities that should not exist" - Harry Houdini "Under the Pyramids"

"The goal of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions" - John Ruskin, "Stones of Venice"
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

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Androsphinx wrote:
Why on Earth did JJ Abrams turn Star Trek into a two-hour commercial for lens flare plugins? I have to admit, upon my second viewing of the film I found this visual motif to be highly distracting and irritating. Flares, reflections and luminous ghosts simply appear everywhere, even without any obvious sources. The reason? JJ wanted a visual metaphor that stated “we have a bright future ahead of us.” No, I’m not making this up.
Second stupidest.
How the fuck is that stupid? The goddamned fucking lens flares are annoying.
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Re: Star Trek 09 review thread

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^I think he might have been referring specifically to JJ's justification... i.e. The reason? JJ wanted a visual metaphor that stated “we have a bright future ahead of us.”
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