The Borg To Appear On 'Enterprise'!!!

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-02-22 02:56am

RedImperator wrote:They're going to have to do something about the canon policy soon, or else Trek continunity is going to become like Simpsons continunity, where Homer's car is on fire in one scene and sitting intact in the driveway in the next.

I agree, but do we really want B&B to be the ones who decide what is canon and what isnt. These two cant even maintain continuity between a two-part episode.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-02-22 03:52am

RedImperator wrote:They're going to have to do something about the canon policy soon, or else Trek continunity is going to become like Simpsons continunity, where Homer's car is on fire in one scene and sitting intact in the driveway in the next.

I don't think The Simpsons even pretended to care about continuity, aside form the occasional reference.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-22 02:48pm

TheDarkling wrote:
"Carbon Creek" which screws with the continuity of "First Contact"
No thats not true, there have been continuity errors (everyone and his dog having cloaking tech for a start) but the above example doesn't harm continuity.

Maybe, but it sure fucks with history. Damn it, we know who invented velcro.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-02-22 03:05pm

neoolong wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:
"Carbon Creek" which screws with the continuity of "First Contact"
No thats not true, there have been continuity errors (everyone and his dog having cloaking tech for a start) but the above example doesn't harm continuity.
Maybe, but it sure fucks with history. Damn it, we know who invented velcro.

What is it with Velcro anyway? I can't count the number of scifi shows/movies that have it being invented by aliens or back engineered from alien tech.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-22 04:55pm

neoolong wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:
"Carbon Creek" which screws with the continuity of "First Contact"
No thats not true, there have been continuity errors (everyone and his dog having cloaking tech for a start) but the above example doesn't harm continuity.
Maybe, but it sure fucks with history. Damn it, we know who invented velcro.

Carbon Creek was just a story, it was strongly suggested that it wasn't true but just made up by Tpal.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-02-22 05:13pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: Carbon Creek was just a story, it was strongly suggested that it wasn't true but just made up by Tpal.

Yet she had the purse or whatever.

[Get into the habit of trimming your quotes. --Enlightenment]

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-22 05:28pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Carbon Creek was just a story, it was strongly suggested that it wasn't true but just made up by Tpal.

Like it says above, the purse. Of course in story Archer or Trip could have checked it out and saw that a human, and not even an American, as it suggested in the story actually invented velcro. Even, if someone did take credit for it, it wasn't actually an American.

[Get into the habit of trimming your quotes. --Enlightenment]

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-02-23 01:17pm

i dont know if its been mentioned, but isnt it likely that this is the remnant of the borg sphere that the enterprise shot down over earth? that would be a very nice tie in to the history of the new series and would maintain continuity and such.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-23 11:35pm

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. While I knew that it would, eventually, come to this, in my heart I did not believe that the Borg would appear in ENT until I read this.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-02-24 03:15am

Call me crazy, but I thinkl B&b may be having a good laugh at out expense....In my view the series finale will be a massive convoluted time travel story , the end result of which is a massive re-set to the universe of ST as we all know and remember it.......I call it Enterprise: The Fucking.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-02-24 09:17am

Thinking about it i would prefer to see the Gorns in enterprise than the Borg.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-02-24 02:20pm

Gandalf wrote:
RedImperator wrote:They're going to have to do something about the canon policy soon, or else Trek continunity is going to become like Simpsons continunity, where Homer's car is on fire in one scene and sitting intact in the driveway in the next.
I don't think The Simpsons even pretended to care about continuity, aside form the occasional reference.

Not always. Lisa converted to vegetarianism. Barney sobered up. Apu got married. Ned opened the Leftorium. Bleeding Gums Murphy and Maude Flanders died. The Seymore Skinner/Edna Crabapple relationship has been steadily developing in the background. There have been numerous jokes where a closet or box was opened and all sorts of relics from previous episodes appear (Homer's Grammy is usually prominent). Artie Ziff, a bit character from a flashback, becomes a major rival to Homer in another episode. Homer's Vegas wife shows up in a later episode, and in yet another later episode, he complains about having to pay alimony to her.

But then you have a scene where Moe crashes Homer's car into a wall and it bursts into flames, and in the establishing shot for the VERY NEXT SCENE, the car is sitting in the Simpsons' driveway, intact except for the dent on the front driver's side fender that's always been there. And how many back to school/last day of school episodes have there been? How many Christmases have there been, all the while nobody's aged or even gone on to the next grade.

I take back what I said about Trek continunity becoming like Simpsons continunity. The Simpsons writers are very conscious that their characters exist in an ageless state of suspended animation, where nobody gets older, but at the same time there is a past and a future and events can have reprecussions on both the future and the world around the principle cast. Homer's car can be restored in the next shot, but only if it's funny (I'm convinced that shot was a deliberate poke by the writers at themselves). In Trek, on the other hand, there are no consequences for anything, because there's a reset button at the end of each episode. Major events in the past are minimalized or forgotten. Giving the Romulans cloaking devices in the 22nd century is like Apu having octuplets in one episode and then hearing him brag about his swinging singles life in the next. Simpsons continunity is better than Enterforaprize continunity (so is the cast, the writing, the richness and depth of the story universe, and, sadly, the visual style, but that's for another time).

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-24 02:34pm

I'm not surprised at all, and that's perhaps what's most depressing. I knew the Terrible Twosome would introduce the Borg sooner or later, just as they did the Ferrengi and Romulans. What makes me wince the most is the intact Borg Warp Coil. I can see it now, they're going to put Transwarp on the NX-01...

For all the uber-speed and uber-weapons they love to give their ships, I'd almost think B&B were trying desperately to compete with Star Wars for tech level.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-24 04:59pm

Sadly not even a blink from me...or probably from many.

B&B want literally to have everyting that has ever happened in Trek to begin in Enterprise...I won't be amazed if upon using the Borg transwarp coil, they go into the Delta Quandrant and fight off 22nd century Borg(who'll have no frequency shielding, and learn it from their exposure to Enterprise...thus making the first meeting in TNG void)

Honestly I'm just waiting for a Founders meeting and an obvious mini war with the Dominion.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-02-24 05:15pm

Ghost Rider wrote: Honestly I'm just waiting for a Founders meeting and an obvious mini war with the Dominion.

I wouldn't expect to see the Dominion or the Founders, after all they are from that "other" Trek show that B&B had nothing to do with.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-24 08:54pm

The Simpsons have a different SORT of continuity. They couldn't care less about the objects AROUND them being altered in extraordinary ways (remember the Spring Cleaning episode, when Marge asks them not to dirty up the house, the door swings shut, and when it swings open again the house is ALREADY trashed?), but they DO care about the CHARACTERS continuing to develop (outside of the Halloween episodes). Thus, when something happens that affects a CHARACTER, it generally carries through to other episodes, sometimes very subtly but other times more obviously.

Enterprise faced the unenviable task of having to maintain the continuity of a STORY, which is much more difficult to do. This is because getting the STORY right requires someone to actually go through, watch, and remember every single episode of the entire saga. Getting the CHARACTERS right may require someone to watch and understand ten or twenty episodes, with maybe two or three episodes focusing on each character. Getting the entire continuity right in the sense that many Trek fans demand, however, requires far more effort.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-02-24 09:04pm

Except they don't even get character continunity right. You (Ossus) have complained about it in other threads here. There's zero character development in Enterprise. They're cardboard cutouts who take on whatever character traits are useful for that episode.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-02-24 09:09pm

...

.....

.......

I'm ready to take my own life now.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-24 09:13pm

RedImperator wrote:Except they don't even get character continunity right. You (Ossus) have complained about it in other threads here. There's zero character development in Enterprise. They're cardboard cutouts who take on whatever character traits are useful for that episode.

True. Enterprise sucks ass at getting the characters right. I was comparing the GOALs of The Simpsons with those of Enterprise, and showing that they were different. The ACCOMPLISHMENTS of the two shows, however, were not the focus of my brief tirade. Yes, I agree that ENT sucks ass at character development. In fact, I find their characters to be mind-bendingly inconsistent from episode to episode, and I find this ultimately unacceptable. However, I also found it necessary to compare The Simpsons with ENT in terms of objectives so as to explain the differences that actually appear on the shows, and those that people complain about.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-02-25 01:27am

Shinova wrote:This could be a joke, but if it isn't, then Enterprise and the rest of Star Trek are as good as incompatible with each other timeline-wise...

Unless the episode plays out and somehow record of the Borg encounter in Enterprise get wiped and no one's supposed to talk about it afterwords until TNG's "Q Who" comes around.

And a Borg sphere in the Artic circle? I can somewhat believe a small scout ship or a fragment crashing on Earth, but a whole SPHERE???

I'm assuming it's supposed to be the pieces of the sphere from ST:FC, although if they paid any fucking attention to realism (which they don't) no drone should've survived re-entry temperatures in any condition.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-25 01:44am

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:I'm assuming it's supposed to be the pieces of the sphere from ST:FC, although if they paid any fucking attention to realism (which they don't) no drone should've survived re-entry temperatures in any condition.

Not to mention the fact that they would have transported their drones onto the E-E anyway.

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2003-02-25 02:02am

A little bird has told me that Majel Rodenberry is on the warpath about B&B complete fuckup. She's trying to regain the rights to star trek (backed up by PatrickStewert, Jonathan Frakes, and of all people Scott Backula) so she can salvage it.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-02-25 11:02am

Setesh wrote:A little bird has told me that Majel Rodenberry is on the warpath about B&B complete fuckup. She's trying to regain the rights to star trek (backed up by PatrickStewert, Jonathan Frakes, and of all people Scott Backula) so she can salvage it.

YES!

But then again, a rumor right? I have even heard George Takai(sp?) is even supporting this. The only ones who are blind to all this is Paramount. George Lucas would never lower Star Wars to this kind of level B&B have done to Star Trek.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-25 11:07am

Dark Primus wrote:George Lucas would never lower Star Wars to this kind of level B&B have done to Star Trek.

However, I dread the day that Lucas kicks the bucket. Whoever inherits the franchise will certainly turn it into the spin-off circus that Trek has become.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-02-25 01:28pm

Setesh wrote:A little bird has told me that Majel Rodenberry is on the warpath about B&B complete fuckup. She's trying to regain the rights to star trek (backed up by PatrickStewert, Jonathan Frakes, and of all people Scott Backula) so she can salvage it.

Fucking A! About time somebody in an effective position did something about those fuckwits. I'm a little surprised Bakula put his lot in, though; after all, if Mrs. Roddenberry is faced with the option of letting those fuckers run or killing Trek completely, I'm guessing she'd choose the latter option, and Bakula would be out of a job.