Differences Between TOS and Abrams Version (SPOILERS)

[Havok]

As fucking goofy as that sounds, if Delta Vega is indeed M-class and in the Vulcan system, it seems to lack a lot of settlement for a habitable planet in their backyard.

Or maybe we saw all of about 14 kilometers of it and have no idea what population it may sustain. By your logic, if all we saw was Iowa in the movie, you would think there was a lack of settlement on Earth.

I'm fairly certain there were no lights or other signs of settlement visible from orbit when Kirk's pod fell to the planet. Either way, a distant, obscure planet with a projector set up for Spock's benefit is more consistent with the amount of time that passed with the Enterprise in warp than a planet close enough to see Vulcan collapse with the naked eye on the ground.

Occam's Razor springs to mind. He could have just given Spock a view screen. And the Enterprise I don't believe went to warp yet and was still in system trying to figure out what to do. Also, if he could just set up a holographic projector why bother dropping off Spock anywhere remotely close to Vulcan where the chance of warning could be given. No, Nero wanted Spock to witness his home world's destruction first hand, not via satellite.

Not to mention it makes no sense for Scotty to go on about sandwiches if the planet next door just got sucked inside out.

Well Kirk and Spock weren't exactly going on about it either. The site Scotty was at was punishment and with the way things looked, it didn't seem at all advanced. He apparently didn't even know Kirk had landed even though the pod was sending out a locator signal. I would imagine having a station with advanced sensors and whatever would be pretty redundant within sight of Vulcan, hence why it is a punishment posting.

[Stofsk]

Also, bringing cadets aboard on shuttles rather than transporter: most efficient way for the sheer numbers needed to be moved? Shuttles had to go up anyway? Tradition?

Those shuttles may have been due to be embarked on their respective ships. The ships in orbit of Earth may have been there to be refitted and recrewed, hence why a lot of the crew are cadets.

I quite like the idea that transporters may be energy intensive, and they can only transport half a dozen guys at once anyway. Assuming it takes 1 minute to beam half a dozen people at a time, that's only 360 people max per hour. A shuttle, travelling at 1-G, from planet to orbit, would take half that time, and may well be able to carry dozens of personnel plus equipment. (and that's assuming the shuttle's maximum acceleration is 1-G, when it likely is much higher)

[Havok]

Does anyone think that maybe the view of Vulcan collapsing from Delta Vega was an "artistic embellishment" given by Spock-prime through his mind meld with Kirk? Perhaps he really didn't see it collapse like that, but for the sake of the flashback Spock was giving it was adequate. Plus, out of universe, it's cool to watch a planet get sucked in like that. Why not show it twice?

Possibly, but Spock states that he just saw his planet die. It also doesn't make any sense for him to create a false memory for himself and all the visual evidence suggests the meld went one way only as far as memory transfer.

and during the first engagement with the Narada Pike orders power drawn from that nacelle to the weapons;

I'm pretty sure that he says to move power from the nacelle deflectors to the forward deflectors.

[Prannon]

Does anyone think that maybe the view of Vulcan collapsing from Delta Vega was an "artistic embellishment" given by Spock-prime through his mind meld with Kirk? Perhaps he really didn't see it collapse like that, but for the sake of the flashback Spock was giving it was adequate. Plus, out of universe, it's cool to watch a planet get sucked in like that. Why not show it twice?

Possibly, but Spock states that he just saw his planet die. It also doesn't make any sense for him to create a false memory for himself and all the visual evidence suggests the meld went one way only as far as memory transfer.

That's true, but if, say, Dela Vega were as far from Vulcan as Earth is from Venus, he still would have been able to see Vulcan's light wink out in the proper conditions. That's stretching it a bit, but it certainly puts it in the realm of possibility. Also, I'm no psychologist so forgive me for any blatant errors I make, but hasn't the human mind been known to fabricate/twist/embellish memories in the event of enormous emotional stress? It would make sense to me that even if Spock only saw Vulcan's pin point wink out in the sky, he would still feel so much anguish that the event would be embellished to appear all that more horrifying in his mind's eye.

However, it should be said that the whole scene is a gigantic stretch in itself. Considering that Spock talks about supernovas destroying galaxies and it shows Vulcan's destruction from the surface of another planet, efforts to try and make sense of it are probably going to be fruitless.

[Bladed_Crescent]

The appearence of Vulcan's destruction was probably a bleed-through of Spock's emotions - I'm pretty sure that in other mind-melds, the transferrence of thought and emotion is referred to - there's Sarek's meld with Picard, Tuvok's meld with Suder and later, his meld with the emotion-trafficer on the planet of telepaths; original Spock pointedly mentions that he (and by extension, new Spock) is emotionally comprised as a result. As well, in 'The Immunity Syndrome' Spock felt the Intrepid and its crew of Vulcans perish at the hands pseudopods of the Space Amoeba from light-years away; it's not inconceivable that the deaths of 6 billion Vulcans from a good deal closer had a greater impact; he wouldn't necessarily need to see the planet's graphic destruction - just be close enough for its light to vanish (as others have pointed out) and to experience the deaths of his people.

The way Vulcan's destruction is presented in the meld was probably the way Kirk's mind translated the emotions and sensation of the event, since he'd seen it firsthand.

At least, that's how I saw it.

[Bounty]

I'm pretty sure that he says to move power from the nacelle deflectors to the forward deflectors.

"Divert auxiliary power from port nacelle to forward weapons"

The line jumped out to me because in TOS, it was implied from time to time that the nacelles were power generators themselves. I'm 90% certain he didn't mention a nacelle shield at all.

[Crazedwraith]

The idea that Vulcan and Delta Vega could be close enough for Vulcan to be that larger in the sky and yet one of them is an ice planet and the other a desert planet seems rather improbable.

[open_sketchbook]

Distance from a star isn't the only factor in determining a planet's environment. Atmosphere is a huge factor, as could be any number of other things. Delta Vega might have an unusual tilt that makes the habitable portion very cold, for example. We didn't exactly see the whole planet from orbit, we don't have to assume the whole thing is a frozen wasteland, especially when large predators are present.

[Knife]

I'm pretty sure that he says to move power from the nacelle deflectors to the forward deflectors.

"Divert auxiliary power from port nacelle to forward weapons"

The line jumped out to me because in TOS, it was implied from time to time that the nacelles were power generators themselves. I'm 90% certain he didn't mention a nacelle shield at all.

There is a glowy thing in the back of the nacells that would indicate a thruster or engine of some sort besides a warp engine. diverting power from that engine to deflectors shouldn't be that surprising nor should it indicate that the engines themselves are producing power rather than using power from somewhere else.

[Bounty]

I'm pretty sure that he says to move power from the nacelle deflectors to the forward deflectors.

"Divert auxiliary power from port nacelle to forward weapons"

The line jumped out to me because in TOS, it was implied from time to time that the nacelles were power generators themselves. I'm 90% certain he didn't mention a nacelle shield at all.

There is a glowy thing in the back of the nacells that would indicate a thruster or engine of some sort besides a warp engine. diverting power from that engine to deflectors shouldn't be that surprising nor should it indicate that the engines themselves are producing power rather than using power from somewhere else.

Oh, I'm not saying that they are generators, just that that was the reason the line jumped out to me.

[Knife]

Oh, I'm not saying that they are generators, just that that was the reason the line jumped out to me.

True, I guess my point is, is that if they are sublight engines on the nacelle, then they are probably powered by non-warp core power like the impulse engines and thus are more than up for grabs for power redistribution.

[Oskuro]

Going on a tangent here after all the power diverting talk but, wasn't there a lack of shields in the movie? I don't remember a single instance of projectiles interacting with the shields in a visible fashion, and that irked me when the nacelle was scratched, since the freaking navigational deflectors (those laser-immune things) should provide some defense aganist space debries.

(I know the shields were present and mentioned in dialogue, I just mean there was no visible shield FX anywhere, and I'm a bit of a fan of starship energy shielding)

[Stofsk]

Perhaps Nero's torpedoes effectively bypassed the shields? That would explain why his one ship dispatched numerous opponents.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Perhaps Nero's torpedoes effectively bypassed the shields? That would explain why his one ship dispatched numerous opponents.

I thought I recalled someone saying 'Are our shields even up?!' Could be wrong, though.

[Worlds Spanner]

So let's get there at warp 4? Having not seen any of TOS except for the movies, I have to ask if they didn't break those speeds until TMP.

She was faster in TOS. However, we did see one nacelle getting bumped pretty bad in the debris field, and during the first engagement with the Narada Pike orders power drawn from that nacelle to the weapons; it's very much possible the Enterprise wasn't running at full power between the Vulcan scenes and Scotty's arrival.

I agree on the embellishment theory; in fact, I'm pretty sure more than one person already posted something similar

Very good points, and that also makes the line "if Scotty can get us to Warp 4" make sense - they're talking about repairs, not about crazy modifications. It also addresses the fact that NX-01 had a "Warp 5 engine," which I was nervous about. It doesn't address the fact that there seemed to be some really short travel times compared to previous Trek.

[J Ryan]

Perhaps Nero's torpedoes effectively bypassed the shields? That would explain why his one ship dispatched numerous opponents.

I thought I recalled someone saying 'Are our shields even up?!' Could be wrong, though.

Your right thats in the USS Kelvin Fight. Think it goes something along the line of after the first barrage "Our shields are at 38%"
"Are our are shields even up?"

[Skylon]

Perhaps Nero's torpedoes effectively bypassed the shields? That would explain why his one ship dispatched numerous opponents.

I thought I recalled someone saying 'Are our shields even up?!' Could be wrong, though.

Your right thats in the USS Kelvin Fight. Think it goes something along the line of after the first barrage "Our shields are at 38%"
"Are our are shields even up?"

I took that line to mean they were hit with such force that to whoever said it, they may as well have not even had shields.

[Imperial Overlord]

Shields were present, although we didn't see any visual effects for them, probably because Nero's weapons brute strengthed their way through them. We've had high powered weapons only partially stopped by shields before (Star Trek VI for example). The Kelvin was at something like 9% after Nero's volley and the Enterprise was something like 39% with Sulu saying "we can't take a hit like that again."

Brute strength>>technobabble.

[NecronLord]

Perhaps Nero's torpedoes effectively bypassed the shields? That would explain why his one ship dispatched numerous opponents.

I thought I recalled someone saying 'Are our shields even up?!' Could be wrong, though.

Yeah.

Amusingly, someone behind me in the theatre had just loudly said 'where are the shields'

[CaptainChewbacca]

Has it ever been established how far it is from Earth to Vulcan? It seemed like at most a half-hour trip.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Another possibility is Borg technovoodoo, which I suppose would be the best bet short of the already-demonstrated Dominion if you want to bypass the shields of hundred year old starships.

[Bounty]

Has it ever been established how far it is from Earth to Vulcan? It seemed like at most a half-hour trip.

16.5 light years

[Worlds Spanner]

Has it ever been established how far it is from Earth to Vulcan? It seemed like at most a half-hour trip.

16.5 light years

So going off of "Star Wars vs. Star Trek in five minutes," for the E-D at maximum warp (12 hours per 3 light years) that would be 2.5 days +, and well over a day and a half even with the theorized Voyager speed of 3000c.

Of course, speed has always been secondary to plot in Star Trek.

(Quick math using the half hour guess gives a speed of somewhere near 216,000c. Which I have to admit, I kind of like for a range. We're still something like 1/40th of the lower estimates for Star Wars speeds, so the galaxy is still plenty big and unknown, but it does create a sense of getting somewhere. Of course, I'm not 100% convinced that scenes that seemed to take half an hour actually took half an hour. On the way to Vulcan there could have been a gap before the mission briefing, and then it probably took longer for Kirk to shout and fight his way to the bridge than we actually saw on screen. On the return trip, oh, wait, the return trip was via a diversion towards the Laurentian system, I forgot about that.)

[Bounty]

On the way to Vulcan there could have been a gap before the mission briefing, and then it probably took longer for Kirk to should and fight his way to the bridge than we actually saw on screen.

The briefing starts right after the ship jumps to warp - it's even the same shot, the camera pans from Sulu saying they're at full speed to Chekov getting his orders. The only 'gaps' can be the time it takes for Kirk to race through the ship and up to the bridge, and any time that passes after he convinces Pike - I'd say the total trip duration, assuming Sulu didn't wait half an hour to accelerate to maximum warp, would be around half an hour on the outside.

[Bounty]

Another random bit: in the final shot of the Enterprise warping off after Spock's monologue, I'm pretty sure you can see the centre of the deflector go from pure-blue to... either folding out some sort of conical antenna, or parts of it going dark. It could have been weird lighting but it looked too symmetrical for that.