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just what limits can we place on his physical strength? Off the top of my head he has deformed the barrel of a pistol with his thumb and forefinger and lifted many heavy objects including the front of a 1930'3(40's?) taxi cab and at least one anvil. So what is the most demanding physical action he has taken and what does it mean?

He took quite a few rounds at point-blank range from an assault rifle in STFC, but then again, he got run through by a spear in one of the later TNG episodes. Maybe this assault rifle was firing rubber bullets.

It should also be noted that the pistol was holographic, so the accuracy of the model is the big determining factor.

Well, I wasn't really refering to Data's toughness, only his ability to lift/bend/break things. (By the way, I have to wonder what is going on with holographic guns. In the episode where Data deforms the gun he seems threatened by it. Why? I mean, in ST-FC, as you mentioned, he took many rounds from an assault rifle but is held at gun point with a holographic pistol. ).

Since FC takes placer after these other incidents, it is entirely possible that Data recieved some upgrades to his system. We already know that the access ports on his head are constantly changing or migrating in position.

Aleska wrote:

Since FC takes placer after these other incidents, it is entirely possible that Data recieved some upgrades to his system. We already know that the access ports on his head are constantly changing or migrating in position.

Really, I used to think the same, but B-4(9? I've seen both and can't remember which it was) is supposed to have the same body as Data, and he couldn't have had the same upgrades. Or did they just mean he was identical in appearance?

The Silence and I wrote:Aleska wrote:

Since FC takes placer after these other incidents, it is entirely possible that Data recieved some upgrades to his system. We already know that the access ports on his head are constantly changing or migrating in position.

Really, I used to think the same, but B-4(9? I've seen both and can't remember which it was) is supposed to have the same body as Data, and he couldn't have had the same upgrades. Or did they just mean he was identical in appearance?

Probably identical in appearance. We know that he is a prototype and that he is "inferior", so its likely he has some internal differences.

I don't think data picked up the taxi cab. I think he was just holding it while the taxi spun it's tires.

The Silence and I wrote:just what limits can we place on his physical strength? Off the top of my head he has deformed the barrel of a pistol with his thumb and forefinger and lifted many heavy objects including the front of a 1930'3(40's?) taxi cab and at least one anvil. So what is the most demanding physical action he has taken and what does it mean?

Well, deadlifting the front of a car is impressive, but there
are people that can do that. Very, very strong people,
of course

In "The Offspring," when Picard is mad at Data for building
Lal, Picard says something to the effect that Lal is "a 'child'
with the strength of ten men!"

Lal's probably a decent indication of Data's own strength
(how else would Picard know to rattle off that figure?),
so figure Data is about 10x stronger than the average man.
I dunno how well that would match his ability to bend gun
barrels, but it'd mean he could probably deadlift somewhere
in the range of 1,500 lbs. (?)--more than enough to pick up
the end of a Taxi cab.

I might be over or underestimating an average man's
strength, hence the question mark. I figure most untrained
men wouldn't be able to pick more than their bodyweight
up off the floor, translating to ~150 lbs.

seanrobertson wrote:

The Silence and I wrote:just what limits can we place on his physical strength? Off the top of my head he has deformed the barrel of a pistol with his thumb and forefinger and lifted many heavy objects including the front of a 1930'3(40's?) taxi cab and at least one anvil. So what is the most demanding physical action he has taken and what does it mean?

Well, deadlifting the front of a car is impressive, but there
are people that can do that. Very, very strong people,
of course

In "The Offspring," when Picard is mad at Data for building
Lal, Picard says something to the effect that Lal is "a 'child'
with the strength of ten men!"

Lal's probably a decent indication of Data's own strength
(how else would Picard know to rattle off that figure?),
so figure Data is about 10x stronger than the average man.
I dunno how well that would match his ability to bend gun
barrels, but it'd mean he could probably deadlift somewhere
in the range of 1,500 lbs. (?)--more than enough to pick up
the end of a Taxi cab.

I might be over or underestimating an average man's
strength, hence the question mark. I figure most untrained
men wouldn't be able to pick more than their bodyweight
up off the floor, translating to ~150 lbs.

IIRC he held that Taxi cab back with just one hand, and I got the impression that the Taxi tried to run him over. That means he was able to stop the Taxi in it's tracks with one hand. Anyone have this episode so we can confirm that?

That doesn't make any sense; even if he's infinitely strong, his feet only have so much friction on the ground.

Darth Wong wrote:That doesn't make any sense; even if he's infinitely strong, his feet only have so much friction on the ground.

And we know he can't be THAT heavy. Worf didn't have much trouble picking of the pieces of his brother (B4).

Alyeska: More than that we actually see Worf carry him in the episode where Lore gets his emotion chip.

Darth Wong wrote:That doesn't make any sense; even if he's infinitely strong, his feet only have so much friction on the ground.

It's been a while but I think his body was half way out of a man hole. So he had something to brace against.

Kamakazie Sith wrote: It's been a while but I think his body was half way out of a man hole. So he had something to brace against.

No, he was kneeling on the floor

http://www.themightygibbon.co.uk/dump/em.avi (divx5.02, 350k)

Lord Edam wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote: It's been a while but I think his body was half way out of a man hole. So he had something to brace against.

No, he was kneeling on the floor

http://www.themightygibbon.co.uk/dump/em.avi (divx5.02, 350k)

Thank you, like I said.......it's been a while.

seanrobertson wrote:I might be over or underestimating an average man's strength, hence the question mark. I figure most untrained
men wouldn't be able to pick more than their bodyweight
up off the floor, translating to ~150 lbs.

Most men are able to pick up there own body weight and then some. I'd say that it is closer to around 200lbs in a bench press, which is what I assume you're talking about.

ArmorPierce wrote: Most men are able to pick up there own body weight and then some. I'd say that it is closer to around 200lbs in a bench press, which is what I assume you're talking about.

No, I'm talking about a deadlift.

http://www.leehayward.com/deadlift.jpg

(I don't know this guy. I just did a Google search for
"deadlift.")

A deadlift involves picking a weight up off the ground/floor
to stand erect with it. It's probably the best indication of
someone's overall strength--definitely a far better measure than
the bench press, to my chagrin. I love pressing movements.
I HATE deadlifts!

As far as the average man bench pressing 200 lbs., no way!
When I started lifting, I was considered a strong beginner
because I could do a double with 120% bodyweight (around 155).
Even then, at a scrawny 120 lbs. or so and 14 years old, I
was more muscular and stronger than the average man. 200 lbs.
isn't a lot to flat bench unless you're under 130, really, but people
ain't gonna walk in off the street and get a rep with it either.

Most people would probably be lucky to bench press 130-150 lbs.
on their first try. After someone learned the movement and their
NS got used to it, they might manage 170...that's still pushing
it, though (no pun intended).

And they would find deadlifting potentially MORE difficult because the avg. person's erector spinae muscles are truly pathetic, part of the reason so many armchair QBs complain of lower back troubles.

Data also had the ability to bend a thick steal bar. Probably 2 inches thick.

Galaxy wrote:Data also had the ability to bend a thick steal bar. Probably 2 inches thick.

Keep in mind that this was a showboating stunt in a court trial. Court trials are not famed for honest methods.

The problem with the steel-bar incident should be obvious: it was said to be a particularly strong material by Federation standards, yet if Data could bend it so easily, with arms and hands whose main structural members are much thinner than the bar, then what the fuck are his arms, hands, and fingers made of? And how could a human run him through with a metal spear long after this episode if he is made of such uber-material?

Darth Wong wrote:

Galaxy wrote:Data also had the ability to bend a thick steal bar. Probably 2 inches thick.

Keep in mind that this was a showboating stunt in a court trial. Court trials are not famed for honest methods.

The problem with the steel-bar incident should be obvious: it was said to be a particularly strong material by Federation standards, yet if Data could bend it so easily, with arms and hands whose main structural members are much thinner than the bar, then what the fuck are his arms, hands, and fingers made of? And how could a human run him through with a metal spear long after this episode if he is made of such uber-material?

What is the hull of a starship made of? Tritanium or something? Data could be made of that. Should be stronger than steel.

neoolong wrote:What is the hull of a starship made of? Tritanium or something? Data could be made of that. Should be stronger than steel.

The material in the episode had "steel" in the name, but was said to be much stronger than steel. And there would be little point in using this material for a demonstration if it was not regarded as a fairly strong material by their standards; I would not attempt to demonstrate someone's strength by having him bend a strip of tin.

Besides, the fact that a primitive villager could run him through with a spear says something, doesn't it?

Darth Wong wrote:

neoolong wrote:What is the hull of a starship made of? Tritanium or something? Data could be made of that. Should be stronger than steel.

The material in the episode had "steel" in the name, but was said to be much stronger than steel. And there would be little point in using this material for a demonstration if it was not regarded as a fairly strong material by their standards; I would not attempt to demonstrate someone's strength by having him bend a strip of tin.

Besides, the fact that a primitive villager could run him through with a spear says something, doesn't it?

I don't recall the episode. I thought it was just a steel rod.

Darth Wong wrote:And how could a human run him through with a metal spear long after this episode if he is made of such uber-material?

You assume his entire body is made of this material. It could be that just his "bones" are made of the material, whilst the rest of him is made of lesser things.

You can run a spear through the human body without getting stuck on a bone.

edit: one day I'll learn to type. Honest.

neoolong wrote: I don't recall the episode. I thought it was just a steel rod.

RIKER
Your honor, I offer into evidence
prosecution's exhibit A. A bar
of plasteel with a tensile
strength of forty kilo-bars.