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Despite the fact that Tuvok never seemed to have any of the Vulcan super strength, the rest of the Vulcans always have. I remember a TOC episode where Spock, a half Vulcan, punched a hole in a bulkhead. These guys are pretty strong, but are they stronger than Klingons?

My money is on the Vulcans, but I could be wrong.

On the genesis planet Spock threw a klingon pretty far. I think there was a DS9 episode that said vulcans were 3 times stronger than humans. Klingons look and act tougher but they never seem to be much stronger than humans.

Galaxy wrote:On the genesis planet Spock threw a klingon pretty far. I think there was a DS9 episode that said vulcans were 3 times stronger than humans. Klingons look and act tougher but they never seem to be much stronger than humans.

Hmm...I can't fully agree there, but "much stronger" might mean
different things to you and me

Regarding the Vulcan-human "ratio" you're probably thinking of "Take Me Out to the Holosuite," specifically when Kassidy Yates-Sisko tells her future hubby, "Captain [Vulcan] was three times your strength!" (Sisko had wrestled a Vulcan rival in his Academy days and lost. The Vulcan became a captain of an ALL VULCAN Nebula-class starship, and their silly
rivalry was the premise behind the whole show.)

Sisko himself would be above average strength as a wrestler,
no doubt, since even manual resistance can be pretty effective.
But Yates' talk is probably off-the-cuff; it'd be goofy to try
to figure out how strong that Vulcan was by saying, "Oh,
Sisko could do this; multiply that by three, and you get
the Vulcan's strength!"

Anyway, I digress.

In most instances, Klingons are demonstrably stronger than humans
on the shows/films. Kruge was extremely strong for a Klingon of his age and size, able to press Kirk overhead with an awkward grip. Try
doing a strict overhead barbell press with a roughly shoulder-width
grip, then try it with your hands about 6" apart at the thumbs! Oy,
that makes it a lot harder!

Then we have Gowron, who was not very tall but could give Worf
a decent-enough struggle, and Worf himself, who could single-handedly
press some schmoe overhead with ease, then casually throw the
guy two meters away in that horrible Risa episode. Worf
might be exceptional, but if he was considerably stronger than
Gowron, they wouldn't be almost stalemated as they pushed
at each other with bat'leths.

Maybe both are exceptional? And Kruge too? That's stretching
things somewhat, though, IMO. Klingons seem to be stronger
in general, but by how much is anyone's guess. So you could
still be right in saying they're not *much* stronger I think

FWIW: sometime in VGR, Harry Dimwit says he used to pretend he
was "as strong as a Klingon" when he was a kid. And during
the aforementioned "Holosuite," Sisko mentioned that the Vulcans would have a strength advantage over everyone on the DS9 team "except
for Worf!" I take the latter more seriously than the former,
though again, Worf might be exceptionally strong for a Klingon.

Klingons seem to have bodies that can withstand serious punishment but don't seem to be that much stronger than humans. Riker was able to beat the crap out of one Klingon on the Pagh(SP?)

Vulcans seem to be far stronger.

Kira was levelling and flooring Klingons left and right in teh saiege of DS9 in Way of the Warrior. Gul Dukat and Garack were killing Klin as well and by the end it was hand to hand (Dukat had a batleth) so you have to wonder just how much stronger is a Klingon or is it just a myth amongst the folks who've never actually fought a Klingon. They certainly look stronger. And didn't Picard kick some Klingon ass in the episode where he goes to Quo'nos with Worf to reclaim his heritage? I seem to recall he had a knife fight and knocked out a Klingon.

Klingons in TOS were not stronger than humans IIRC.

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Klingons seem to have bodies that can withstand serious punishment but don't seem to be that much stronger than humans. Riker was able to beat the crap out of one Klingon on the Pagh(SP?)

Vulcans seem to be far stronger.

Pagh sounds right to me!

Riker was able to really kick Klagg's ass, but he never tried
to match the Klingon's strength, either. I'm sure there are
lots of lightweight martial artists, boxers, etc. that could thoroughly
clean my clock, but if they tried to match my gym lifts they'd
literally be buried.

Besides, Brian Thompson, the guy who played Klagg, was a
pretty big mo-fo...he was the dude leading the psycho gang in Sly Stallone's "Cobra." Had Riker tried to grapple with him, he
would've been in for a rough time.

We also have B'Elanna Torres' fight with a Pon Farr-ing Vulcan
ensign sometime in VGR season 3 or 4. Vorik, I think? Torres
grappled with the guy a little IIRC and whipped him soundly.
She's a she, obviously, and not a big woman either, but in
fairness to Vorik, Pon Farr seems to sap a Vulcan's strength...
in "Amok Time," Bones and Kirk both seemed to think Spock
wouldn't be able to kick another Vulcan's ass. Stonn?

So that leaves us with Kruge, Worf, and Gowron, by his ability to struggle
with Worf; all of them did impressive things. None were quite as impressive
as Spock throwing a Klingon on Genesis, I must admit, but Genesis
was...weird. Remember how Kirk hand-phasered a Klingon and sent
him flying, too?

I hate to even imply that Genesis itself was somehow responsible for the Flying Klingon stuff--you'd think if that was the case, the characters would be bobbing around like astronauts on the Moon--but to my recollection,
a phaser blast has never thrown someone back like that before
or since.

Deviating from the topic somewhat, what's the deal with Vulcan,
the planet, anyway? In "Amok Time" we're told it has a higher
gravity than Earth, right? It had a thinner atmosphere, the works.
But Bones and Kirk were able to walk around without difficulty.
Hell, Spock's mother and his "stepmother," Sarek's wife in TNG,
both LIVED there.

Just for once, I think it'd be cool to have a show in which humans
are physically much stronger than another bipedal species.

Stravo wrote:Kira was levelling and flooring Klingons left and right in teh saiege of DS9 in Way of the Warrior. Gul Dukat and Garack were killing Klin as well and by the end it was hand to hand (Dukat had a batleth) so you have to wonder just how much stronger is a Klingon or is it just a myth amongst the folks who've never actually fought a Klingon.

That's a good point. That could easily explain Harry Dimwit's
talk about being as strong as a Klingon; he seems like the
kind of dolt that would buy hearsay like that.

Oh, and your avatar is so cool. Kirk looks a little drunk there

They certainly look stronger. And didn't Picard kick some Klingon ass in the episode where he goes to Quo'nos with Worf to reclaim his heritage? I seem to recall he had a knife fight and knocked out a Klingon.

Klingons in TOS were not stronger than humans IIRC.

Yeah, same here. Kang might've done something that
required substantial strength, but I could easily be confusing
that with something else.

Of course, I'll reiterate that ass-kicking doesn't mean one
has comparable strength to his fallen opponents. It certainly
wouldn't hurt, but you'd have to see them wrestling with each
other to get a sound idea of their respective strengths.

IIRC, only Dukat was in a position wherein he really
wrestled with a Klingon. Kira might have too, though, which would
be really bad for me Heh...

Oh, and your avatar is so cool. Kirk looks a little drunk there

He's happy go lucky Kirk...I have arrogant Kirk and Praying Kirk lined up for display later.

I wonder how the following would go:

Bar brawl.

Setting: Quark's Bar, Promenade, Deep Space Nine/Terok Nor.

Klingons: Generic off-duty BoP crewers

Vulcans: Since Vulcans would not involve themselves in a bar fight, we'll use Romulans instead (biologically the same, but with a diferent ethos). Typical lower-deck variety Romulan crewmen.

Humans: An off duty platoon of USMC circa late 20th/early 21st century who are for some reason hanging around on 24th century DS9.

All three groups are roughly equal in number. Say about 20 of each.

Bat'Leths, Romulan knives, and Ka-bars are in abundance.

Which group will come out on top?

Which group will get its ass most severely kicked and wind up bottom (and most likely dead)?

Anyone watched that show where Tuvok and 7 of 9 were captured and 7 of 9 was forced to fight? Tuvok said that he would have probably have been killed in the ring. Pretty strange for someone that is three times stronger than a average human. Wonder what would have happened if it was a regular human in the ring (another thing I don't like, humans seems to be one of the weakest race).

My thought is that they liked pussifying the Vulcans in recent years.

ArmorPierce wrote:Anyone watched that show where Tuvok and 7 of 9 were captured and 7 of 9 was forced to fight? Tuvok said that he would have probably have been killed in the ring. Pretty strange for someone that is three times stronger than a average human. Wonder what would have happened if it was a regular human in the ring (another thing I don't like, humans seems to be one of the weakest race).

My thought is that they liked pussifying the Vulcans in recent years.

I remember that part of the episode. I'm almost positive it was "Raven."

Seven's exceptional, though. I think all Borg are pretty strong.
A mostly-assimilated Picard was able to give Worf a good struggle
in "BoBW."

It struck me as somewhat silly at the time, I must say. Paris
balked, "A Vulcan versus a Borg? Tuvok, no offense, but
you don't stand a chance!" She's a girl! And WHAT a girl,
but still, a girl!

Vulcans might've been pussified somewhat, though I do
recall that, in "Rise," Tuvok told some alien, "I am many
times your strength. Don't fuck with me," or words to
that effect. (I don't think he actually said "fuck.") The guy
didn't listen and Tuvok fixed the alien's wagon.

So even if Vulcans aren't up to standards of old, they
still TALK big And occassionally they can back it up,
unless of course their opponents are partial cyborgs
with huge tits.

AWACS wrote:I wonder how the following would go:

Bar brawl.

Setting: Quark's Bar, Promenade, Deep Space Nine/Terok Nor.

Klingons: Generic off-duty BoP crewers

Vulcans: Since Vulcans would not involve themselves in a bar fight, we'll use Romulans instead (biologically the same, but with a diferent ethos). Typical lower-deck variety Romulan crewmen.

Humans: An off duty platoon of USMC circa late 20th/early 21st century who are for some reason hanging around on 24th century DS9.

All three groups are roughly equal in number. Say about 20 of each.

Bat'Leths, Romulan knives, and Ka-bars are in abundance.

Which group will come out on top?

Which group will get its ass most severely kicked and wind up bottom (and most likely dead)?

The Marines kick the asses of both the Romulans and Klingons. Klingons do the worst since it is a fact that Klingons can be beaten by women. Like Kira did when they invaded the station.

Also I like Klingons are stronger then Vulcans but that's only in body odor.

Actually, wasn't it once mentioned that Klingons have an outer skeleton (although the visuals don't suggest it) in addition to their inner skeleton??

By the way, I think that Vulcans are stronger, but the Klingons are probably more resilient.

Simon H.Johansen wrote: the Klingons are probably more resilient.

That's right. Klingons ,I remember, have an 8 chamber heart and 3 kidneys. Basically, Klingons can survive injuries that would kill most other species.

paladin wrote:

Simon H.Johansen wrote: the Klingons are probably more resilient.

That's right. Klingons ,I remember, have an 8 chamber heart and 3 kidneys. Basically, Klingons can survive injuries that would kill most other species.

Don't they also have backup organs too?

Of the heart and stuff.

neoolong wrote:Of the heart and stuff.

I think I recall something from the Voyager series about B'lana's daughter needing genetic engineering to remove a second heart or something.

ArmorPierce wrote:Anyone watched that show where Tuvok and 7 of 9 were captured and 7 of 9 was forced to fight? Tuvok said that he would have probably have been killed in the ring. Pretty strange for someone that is three times stronger than a average human. Wonder what would have happened if it was a regular human in the ring (another thing I don't like, humans seems to be one of the weakest race).

You DID notive that Tuvok was also so badly wounded that he could hardly stand, right?

Yogi wrote:You DID notive that Tuvok was also so badly wounded that he could hardly stand, right?

Oh, crud...

And I quoted Armor only to say, "I'm sure that was 'Raven'."
ARGH! When I quoted him I only saw "Tuvok and Seven fight";
I forgot all about The Rock Does VGR ("Tsunkatse").

Yes, in the latter episode, Tuvok was in no shape to fight,
at all.

Apropos nothing, I was talking about when Seven
went berserk in "Raven"...Tuvok was going to beam over
to her shuttle and subdue her, and she easily overpowered
him when he tried.

Still, that's a quasi-Borg vs. a Vulcan, not a Klingon. I brought
up some examples of strong Klingons though...*whistles to self*