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In the Galaxy class starship, ongoing [Guidance and Navigation] system research tasks are handled by a mixed consultation crew of twelve Tursiops truncatus and T. truncatus gilli, Atlantic and Pacific bottlenose dolphins, respectively. This crew is overseen by two additional cetaceans, Orcinus orca takayai, or Takaya's Whale. All theoretical topics in navigation are studied by these elite specialists, and their recommendations for system upgrades are implemented by Starfleet.

Okay. Who was responsible for this? That just seems bizarre.

Could this have been a concept for TNG (having dolphin crewmembers... oh god it's seaQuest all over again...) that was dropped but was added in the TM as an afterthought?

Okay, that was weird... and stupid . You would think that they would at least try in just a little way to be consistent with the shows. I've never seen genetically engineered dolphins walking around.

Uraniun235 wrote:

In the Galaxy class starship, ongoing [Guidance and Navigation] system research tasks are handled by a mixed consultation crew of twelve Tursiops truncatus and T. truncatus gilli, Atlantic and Pacific bottlenose dolphins, respectively. This crew is overseen by two additional cetaceans, Orcinus orca takayai, or Takaya's Whale. All theoretical topics in navigation are studied by these elite specialists, and their recommendations for system upgrades are implemented by Starfleet.

Okay. Who was responsible for this? That just seems bizarre.

Could this have been a concept for TNG (having dolphin crewmembers... oh god it's seaQuest all over again...) that was dropped but was added in the TM as an afterthought?

This isn't even an original idea. It's ripped directly from Startide Rising by David Brin. This is yet another example of plagiarism in Star Trek.

Hopefully those are Uplifted dolphins. Othwise they'd just be dumb animals, no better at their jobs than the rest of the crew.

Raxmei wrote:Hopefully those are Uplifted dolphins. Othwise they'd just be dumb animals, no better at their jobs than the rest of the crew.

Actually considering the competence of the crews we have seen, regular dolphins would be a step up.

What the FUCK!? What page is this bit is fuck up shit on?

ArmorPierce wrote:Okay, that was weird... and stupid . You would think that they would at least try in just a little way to be consistent with the shows. I've never seen genetically engineered dolphins walking around.

Well, that's because the dolphins would stay in the tanks, seeing as they don't have legs.

ArmorPierce wrote:Okay, that was weird... and stupid . You would think that they would at least try in just a little way to be consistent with the shows. I've never seen genetically engineered dolphins walking around.

1) The Enterprise, despite other starships in other universes being bigger, is still a big ship. There's a lot we probably never saw.

2) Just because we never saw it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it were restricted to only what was seen on-screen, the TM would be a much sparser book... and much less interesting, at that.

This is Page 44, BTW.

Uraniun235 wrote:

ArmorPierce wrote:Okay, that was weird... and stupid . You would think that they would at least try in just a little way to be consistent with the shows. I've never seen genetically engineered dolphins walking around.

1) The Enterprise, despite other starships in other universes being bigger, is still a big ship. There's a lot we probably never saw.

2) Just because we never saw it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it were restricted to only what was seen on-screen, the TM would be a much sparser book... and much less interesting, at that.

This is Page 44, BTW.

Maybe it has the tube system like the SeaQuest.

It's not just that they are never seen on screen but they are never mentioned neither even though there role would be important and considering that there would need to be a lot of space devoted to them. Also, wouldn't they have to be genetically engineered? Isn't the Federation against Genetic engineering? Yeah, they need to make it more interesting but I think that's just pushing it.

Uraniun235 wrote:

In the Galaxy class starship, ongoing [Guidance and Navigation] system research tasks are handled by a mixed consultation crew of twelve Tursiops truncatus and T. truncatus gilli, Atlantic and Pacific bottlenose dolphins, respectively. This crew is overseen by two additional cetaceans, Orcinus orca takayai, or Takaya's Whale. All theoretical topics in navigation are studied by these elite specialists, and their recommendations for system upgrades are implemented by Starfleet.

Okay. Who was responsible for this? That just seems bizarre.

Could this have been a concept for TNG (having dolphin crewmembers... oh god it's seaQuest all over again...) that was dropped but was added in the TM as an afterthought?

Well I'm glad they dropped it..........

Master of Ossus wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:

In the Galaxy class starship, ongoing [Guidance and Navigation] system research tasks are handled by a mixed consultation crew of twelve Tursiops truncatus and T. truncatus gilli, Atlantic and Pacific bottlenose dolphins, respectively. This crew is overseen by two additional cetaceans, Orcinus orca takayai, or Takaya's Whale. All theoretical topics in navigation are studied by these elite specialists, and their recommendations for system upgrades are implemented by Starfleet.

Okay. Who was responsible for this? That just seems bizarre.

Could this have been a concept for TNG (having dolphin crewmembers... oh god it's seaQuest all over again...) that was dropped but was added in the TM as an afterthought?

This isn't even an original idea. It's ripped directly from Startide Rising by David Brin. This is yet another example of plagiarism in Star Trek.

Is that an exact copy of Mr. Brins idea?

Uraniun235 wrote:

ArmorPierce wrote:Okay, that was weird... and stupid . You would think that they would at least try in just a little way to be consistent with the shows. I've never seen genetically engineered dolphins walking around.

1) The Enterprise, despite other starships in other universes being bigger, is still a big ship. There's a lot we probably never saw.

2) Just because we never saw it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it were restricted to only what was seen on-screen, the TM would be a much sparser book... and much less interesting, at that.

This is Page 44, BTW.

True, however the tanks required for such large organisms as an entire pod of dolphins and a pair of ORCA KILLER WHALES are substantial, and would need to be deep as well as wide. Additionally, the support system for such whales and dolphins would have to be large. You would not only need air and food for them (which would be considerable), but you would also need things to allow them to communicate with humans or a computer, and to receive data. Moreover, these animals would need to be taken care of occasionally (veterinary procedures), and the ship would need to be able to deal with emergencies regarding their health. That would represent a substantial fraction of the ship (I would estimate that the tank would have to fill AT LEAST a third of a football field, and be two to four decks "deep" just to support them).

Keep in mind that there is little reason to keep these animals on a GCS, either. Instead they should be kept on Earth where they would receive virtually the same information at a fraction of the cost. Moreover, if there were a group of specialists operating ON BOARD the ship, with the power to take control of the navigation systems of the ship, isn't it odd to you that they were never ONCE mentioned on the show? And when we add the fact that no similar system is required for other ships to function (remember ST:IV?), we see that there is no reason for them to be onboard. It is therefore ridiculous plagiarism to claim that these animals do indeed live on the ship itself.

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Is that an exact copy of Mr. Brins idea?

Pretty much. I haven't read the book in a LONG time, but in the book, the dolphins on their ship are tasked with the navigation of the ship (among other things) because they are so intelligent. They are referred to as "specialists" from time to time, and they are considered to be part of the crew.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:

ArmorPierce wrote:Okay, that was weird... and stupid . You would think that they would at least try in just a little way to be consistent with the shows. I've never seen genetically engineered dolphins walking around.

1) The Enterprise, despite other starships in other universes being bigger, is still a big ship. There's a lot we probably never saw.

2) Just because we never saw it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it were restricted to only what was seen on-screen, the TM would be a much sparser book... and much less interesting, at that.

This is Page 44, BTW.

True, however the tanks required for such large organisms as an entire pod of dolphins and a pair of ORCA KILLER WHALES are substantial, and would need to be deep as well as wide. Additionally, the support system for such whales and dolphins would have to be large. You would not only need air and food for them (which would be considerable), but you would also need things to allow them to communicate with humans or a computer, and to receive data. Moreover, these animals would need to be taken care of occasionally (veterinary procedures), and the ship would need to be able to deal with emergencies regarding their health. That would represent a substantial fraction of the ship (I would estimate that the tank would have to fill AT LEAST a third of a football field, and be two to four decks "deep" just to support them).

Keep in mind that there is little reason to keep these animals on a GCS, either. Instead they should be kept on Earth where they would receive virtually the same information at a fraction of the cost. Moreover, if there were a group of specialists operating ON BOARD the ship, with the power to take control of the navigation systems of the ship, isn't it odd to you that they were never ONCE mentioned on the show? And when we add the fact that no similar system is required for other ships to function (remember ST:IV?), we see that there is no reason for them to be onboard. It is therefore ridiculous plagiarism to claim that these animals do indeed live on the ship itself.

Considering the small size of the crew, there's probably enough space for all that, especially if they reduce the quarter's size for the lesser personal by a significant fraction. Still pointless though. A computer a fraction of that size would provide masivly more capability.

Though the USN did try to train Dolphins to place limpet mines on ships without success. Its current program to use them against combat swimmers is working well though...

Master of Ossus wrote:

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Is that an exact copy of Mr. Brins idea?

Pretty much. I haven't read the book in a LONG time, but in the book, the dolphins on their ship are tasked with the navigation of the ship (among other things) because they are so intelligent. They are referred to as "specialists" from time to time, and they are considered to be part of the crew.

Argh...I don't know what I expected. My tolerance for everyone behind TNG ST and beyond is rapidly fading away into oblivion.

Well, the tanks were featured in the Enterprise blueprints published by Pocket Books awhile back.

But that doesn't really count for much...

GEORDI
(takes his arm)
Listen... have you been down to
see the dolphins yet? You really
shouldn't miss them...

The ship does carry dolphins.

Keeping dolphins onboard a primarily human-crewed spaceship would be idiotic. Even if they do approach human intelligence, so what? The resources required to maintain segregated aquatic crewers upon a primarily humanoid-crewed vessel would be a massive waste.

A post by Rick Sternbach in 1996 on RAST

Google

I found this looking for the name of the book "Dark Mirror" which has a cetacean on board the Enterprise.

All theoretical topics in navigation are studied by these elite specialists, and their recommendations for system upgrades are implemented by Starfleet.

Wow

The leaders of star fleet admit that compared to their crews, sea mammals are "elite specialists"


I'm at a loss for words.....especially since we've all been this for the last 5 years....hehehe.....

Yeah but SF isn't exactly known for its efficiency when it comes to ship resources (at least not in the early TNG era).

Strictly speaking, the idea that aquatic mammals might be in active service with Starfleet's bureau of ships (or whatever division handles theoretical navigation) is not so much of a stretch. Recall that Captain Spock was able to telepathically communicate with the whales in The Voyage Home, and it was implied that, at least in the Star Trek canon, whales are fully sentient and intelligent.

Still, even if one allows that whales and dolphins may be commissioned officers in Starfleet, the very idea of actually carrying twelve dolphins and two whales about with one in space seems a grossly ineffecient use of space and resources aboard a starship.

One should note, however, that the text does not actually state that the seaborne research specialists are detailed to an actual Galaxy-class vessel in service -- rather, they are simply associated with research and development. Most probably, they reside on Earth.

Publius

Phil Skayhan wrote:A post by Rick Sternbach in 1996 on RAST

Google

I found this looking for the name of the book "Dark Mirror" which has a cetacean on board the Enterprise.

Damn, you beat me to it.

Phil Skayhan wrote:A post by Rick Sternbach in 1996 on RAST

Google

I found this looking for the name of the book "Dark Mirror" which has a cetacean on board the Enterprise.

OMFG, it's TRUE. They DO use their space in such a ridiculous manner! There actually ARE dolphins and whales on board the Enterprise!