Generations saucer crash

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-09 10:47pm

Out of curiosity, can anything about the GCS saucer be determined from the crash in ST: Generations? I noticed it hit a hill at one point, sliced into the ground at another, yet the hull stayed mostly intact.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-09 10:53pm

We now know that it can take massive damage to the foward section.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-02-09 11:13pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:We now know that it can take massive damage to the foward section.

No, we now know that the metal the saucer is made out of is stronger than rock and tree trunks.

Watch Nemesis.

When the EE rams the Scimitar, it's saucer looks like it's gone through a meat grinder.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-09 11:38pm

IG-88E wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:We now know that it can take massive damage to the foward section.
No, we now know that the metal the saucer is made out of is stronger than rock and tree trunks.

Watch Nemesis.

When the EE rams the Scimitar, it's saucer looks like it's gone through a meat grinder.

Two things.

First, this thread is about Generations. Leave Nemesis out of this.

Second, this belongs in the PST.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-09 11:44pm

Alyeska wrote:
IG-88E wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:We now know that it can take massive damage to the foward section.
No, we now know that the metal the saucer is made out of is stronger than rock and tree trunks.

Watch Nemesis.

When the EE rams the Scimitar, it's saucer looks like it's gone through a meat grinder.
Two things.

First, this thread is about Generations. Leave Nemesis out of this.

Second, this belongs in the PST.

Quite right, Alyeska. Thread moved.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-09 11:52pm

SIF might've taken the brunt of the damage, but would've failed eventually.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-09 11:57pm

Aya wrote:SIF might've taken the brunt of the damage, but would've failed eventually.

I duno. The Saucer lost most of its power when the battle section blew. It had little control and couldn't stop heading towards the planet. It only had enough power to try and level the desent.

This is not the first time such crashes have happened in Trek. Voyager slammed into a planet at a higher speed and only its bottom few decks buckled. The rest of the ship remained in tact and glacier movement didn't tear it apart. Again we see a Jem'Hadar attackship crash into a planet and was physically intact. Yet again the Delta Flyer impacted a planet at such high speed it penetrated through over a kilometer of rock before comming to a stop, the crew survived.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-10 12:07am

Conclusion: Ships in Trek can be blown up by other ships and such, but when it comes to crashing into planets, they have some sort of Anti-Planet crash protection.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-10 12:10am

Aya wrote:Conclusion: Ships in Trek can be blown up by other ships and such, but when it comes to crashing into planets, they have some sort of Anti-Planet crash protection.

Or maybe something that is part of the ships causes ship colissions to be much more powerful then they normally would be.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-02-10 02:52am

Remember, when the saucer came in, it was barely moving at a few dozen meters per second over the ground. It didn't seem like a completely uncontrolled re-entry... they probably had some attitude and velocity control as they came in, just not enough to stay out of the atmosphere.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-02-10 03:11am

One thing we can know for certain is that Troi and Data are lousy space pilots. If they'd had any sense, they'd have flattened out the saucer's angle to cause it to skip off the upper atmospheric layers and the crash might not have occurred at all. That they had the ship pointed toward Veridian III when they were supposed to have been breaking orbit and heading out into open space in and of itself speaks volumes.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-02-10 03:21am

Patrick Degan wrote:One thing we can know for certain is that Troi and Data are lousy space pilots. If they'd had any sense, they'd have flattened out the saucer's angle to cause it to skip off the upper atmospheric layers and the crash might not have occurred at all. That they had the ship pointed toward Veridian III when they were supposed to have been breaking orbit and heading out into open space in and of itself speaks volumes.

Skipping something the size of the E-D saucer would be an iffy proposition at best. However, any way one slices it, the incident boils down to incompetent pilotage. The big question is WTF were they doing in either a forced orbit or in an orbit with a perogee inside the planet's atmosphere.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-02-10 12:52pm

Alyeska wrote:
IG-88E wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:We now know that it can take massive damage to the foward section.
No, we now know that the metal the saucer is made out of is stronger than rock and tree trunks.

Watch Nemesis.

When the EE rams the Scimitar, it's saucer looks like it's gone through a meat grinder.

First, this thread is about Generations. Leave Nemesis out of this.

Ummm, no? This is a question of how strong the saucer section is. Why should I leave out Nemesis when it also contains an example of the saucer section slamming into something?

Hitch Hiker · Post by **Hitch Hiker** » 2003-02-10 02:00pm

Hitch Hiker · Post by **Hitch Hiker** » 2003-02-10 02:02pm

Why did the Enterprise's saucer section crash any way?
i have watched the film and can see no reason why as it does not seem to be hit by the shock wave from the battle section. Also in the film Riker orders the ship out of orbit but all the ship does it turn around and fire its Phasers. why did it just not fly straight out of orbit? (then it may have survived)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-10 02:25pm

Don't put that fucking Red Alert animation at the start of each of your posts, moron.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-10 02:33pm

IG-88E wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
IG-88E wrote: No, we now know that the metal the saucer is made out of is stronger than rock and tree trunks.

Watch Nemesis.

When the EE rams the Scimitar, it's saucer looks like it's gone through a meat grinder.

First, this thread is about Generations. Leave Nemesis out of this.
Ummm, no? This is a question of how strong the saucer section is. Why should I leave out Nemesis when it also contains an example of the saucer section slamming into something?

Because Nemsis has nothing to do with what is being examined here. We are dealing with a crash landing on a planet, not a ship ramming scene. Big difference.

Hitch Hiker · Post by **Hitch Hiker** » 2003-02-10 02:43pm

Im srry for the Red Alert gif but could you not edit out when i can do it my self!!! Also can you just stick to answering the question

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-02-10 03:02pm

Hitch Hiker wrote:Im srry for the Red Alert gif but could you not edit out when i can do it my self!!!

Spanky isn't a mod. He can't edit your posts. We aren't supposed to take annonymous actions so whichever mod removed the graphic (it wasn't me) should stand up and identify themselves.

Cool Guy · Post by **Cool Guy** » 2003-02-10 03:06pm

Hitch Hiker wrote:Why did the Enterprise's saucer section crash any way?
i have watched the film and can see no reason why as it does not seem to be hit by the shock wave from the battle section. Also in the film Riker orders the ship out of orbit but all the ship does it turn around and fire its Phasers. why did it just not fly straight out of orbit? (then it may have survived)

The shockwave does hit the saucer section. The computer states that the primary stabilizers are offline, and is engaging the secondary systems. Riker asks for a report and Deanna says that the helm is offline.

Therefor, the reason why the Saucer crashed is because the shockwave knocked it out of control and the reason why the ship never left orbit in the first place was because Deanna was at the helm.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-10 03:07pm

I'll tell you to stop doing something if it pisses me and others off, n00b.

Enlightenment: It was probably Alyeska, seeing as he's the mod for Pure Star Trek.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-02-10 03:24pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Enlightenment: It was probably Alyeska, seeing as he's the mod for Pure Star Trek.

There are three PST mods.: Alyeska, Stravo and I.

I suspect, however, that the edit was done by one of the supermods as the three of us here have a rather more relaxed attitude to moderation than do the some of the supermods.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-10 03:27pm

Sorry about that En, didn't know about you and Stravo.

You're probably right about the supermod thing.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-02-10 03:51pm

Alyeska wrote:Because Nemsis has nothing to do with what is being examined here. We are dealing with a crash landing on a planet, not a ship ramming scene. Big difference.

Yes. However, in case you didn't notice, I've been trying to refute what Admiral Johnason stated:

Admiral Johnason wrote:We now know that it can take massive damage to the foward section.

This is not necessarily true. The saucer in GEN came down on a reasonably level stretch of land, thus reducing the amount of damage taken. The saucer in NEM slammed straight into another object, and the damage was far more severe.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-10 07:32pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Enlightenment: It was probably Alyeska, seeing as he's the mod for Pure Star Trek.
There are three PST mods.: Alyeska, Stravo and I.

I suspect, however, that the edit was done by one of the supermods as the three of us here have a rather more relaxed attitude to moderation than do the some of the supermods.

(sigh)

I did it and I didn't even think about stating that I did it. My apologies.