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Galor class size. EAS – 481 meters. DITL – 372 meters.

Galor class Photo shop size. 1257 pixels long. 2.61 pixels per meter (EAS) 3.38 pixels per meter (DITL)

Using the fighter shots from Sacrafice Angles I find that the Peregrine is approximately the size of the small hump behind the phaser mount on the top forward section. That is approximately 48 pixels long. This equates to the Peregrine being 18.4 meters (EAS) 14.2 meters (DITL).

After viewing shots from the Peregrine/Runabout battle of The Maquis PT-2 I notice that the Peregrine is shorter in length then a Runabout. EAS lists the Runabout at 23 meters, given how much shorter the Peregrine is the EAS measurement of 18.4 meters fits reasonably well. DITL also lists the Runabout at 23 meters. So in conclusion I will call the Peregrine to 18 meters in length. This fits with the DITL size, though EAS says the Peregrine is 30 meters in length.

How many such fighters could the Galaxy class hold? The Peregrine is 18 meters long. It is 844 pixels long. That is 46.9 pixels per meter. The Peregrine is 856 meters wide, 18.25 meters wide. If the wings fold, the Peregrine is only 458 pixels, or 9.7 meters wide.

The saucer section on the Galaxy class is 642 meters long. This is 956 pixels. 1.49 pixels per meter. The saucer is 698 pixels wide, 468 meters wide. Main shuttlebay length, 101 pixels, 67.8 meters. An alternate view of the Galaxy puts the saucer at being 1034 pixels wide, 2.21 pixels per meter. The main shuttlebay is 149 pixels wide, 67.4 meters wide. Shuttlebay 2 is 37 pixels wide, 16.7 meters wide. Shuttlebay 3 is 54 pixels wide, 24.4 meters wide. Main cargo bay is 63 pixels, 28.5 meters.

Judging by the listed information, a Galaxy class ship can fit Peregrine fighters in the main shuttle and cargo bay, and Shutlebay-3. If the wings on the Peregrine are folding, it can hold more. Assuming folder wing Peregrines, a Galaxy can hold the following.

Main Shuttlebay: 6 fighters wide by 3 deep. 9 fighters total.
Shuttlebay 2: One fighter
Shuttlebay 3: Two fighters
Main Cargobay: Two fighters

Total fighter count: 14

That is the information for a Galaxy class carrying Peregrine Tac-Fighters

These fighters give the Galaxy class a significant boost in their combat capability. A Galor class ship while inferior to a Galaxy, can destroy one if they hunt in packs. However even with fleet support by the Dominion, 4 Tac-Fighters making a straffing run with micro torpedoes can seriously cripple a single Galor. A Galaxy carrying 14 Tac-Fighters could theoretically take on as many as 6 Galor class ships with relatively few problems. Had the Oddessy been carrying Tac-Fighters rather then using a Runabout escort, that battle would have faired much better.


I used these pictures when measuring the ship.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... xy_dor.jpg
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... xy_aft.jpg
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/galor.jpg

I agree that adding Perigrine fighters would enhance the Galaxy class fighting ability, but isnt the stated length of a Galaxy 642 meters from 10- forward to the end of the nacelles? Not just the saucer section?

Alyeska wrote: How many such fighters could the Galaxy class hold? The Peregrine is 18 meters long. It is 844 pixels long. That is 46.9 pixels per meter. The Peregrine is 856 meters wide, 18.25 meters wide. If the wings fold, the Peregrine is only 458 pixels, or 9.7 meters wide.

So the Peregrine is 856 meters wide?

Alyeska wrote: The saucer section on the Galaxy class is 642 meters long.

I take it you must be very tired today. The Galaxy itself is 642 meters long, not the saucer section.

Alyeska wrote:That is the information for a Galaxy class carrying Peregrine Tac-Fighters

I think Peregrine and Tac Fghters are totaly two different ships. But Iam too tired to look it up. I am going to bed.

I won't nitpick your typos, Alyeska. A good idear, and overdue. Not to mention a lot of work went into that. More than I'd be willing to do.

I see what I was thinking when I wrote that. I was originally going to describe the width of the saucer then realized I needed to use the length first.

Dark Primus wrote:I think Peregrine and Tac Fghters are totaly two different ships. But Iam too tired to look it up. I am going to bed.

Aproximately 50% of the sites out there list the Tac-Fighter as the Peregrine. Very few actually call the small raider the Peregrine. DS9 consistently refers to the small raiders as "Maquis Raiders". The Peregrine is not firmly established as the Tac-Fighter, but from what we know its possible. For simplicity sake I listed the Peregrine and Tac-Fighter as the same thing. To make it obvious what I was talking about I felt Peregrine Tactical Fighter makes for a good title. We alrady have Dunabe Runabout.

Good work. I do hink that, yes, the GC could use a few fighter squadrons for backup and recon.

Admiral Johnason wrote:Good work. I do hink that, yes, the GC could use a few fighter squadrons for backup and recon.

The problem is at best their going to get 14. Now if the Galaxy was modified somewhat. It can have an elevator system in the main bay and use surounding saucer areas to tripple the holding capacity. Instead of 9, it carries 27. The 2nd and 3rd bays could be removed all together (give more strength and torpedo storage in there). The cargo bays could be set up with two large doors and a fair amount of storage to hold upwards of 8-10 fighters. I could see a partially rebuilt Galaxy carrying upwards of 37 fighters.

A dedicated fighter carrier would be better of course. However the ability for Nebula and Galaxy class ships to carry a few fighters does increase their striking power. With the Klingon and Romulan accuracy, I could see 9 Tac-Fighters taking on and killing a Vorcha or D'Deridex on their own.

FYI the Akira is next on my list. I want to determine how many fighters it could realistically hold.

I think I once heard that it was arounf 100 at Trek Wars. Then again, they changed a lot of things, so that may no longer be.

Admiral Johnason wrote:I think I once heard that it was arounf 100 at Trek Wars. Then again, they changed a lot of things, so that may no longer be.

100 is far to many. Then again I can actually see it carrying more then the Galaxy because theoretically the Akira is built to carry fighters, so it would have internal hanger facilities.

It has a central tube that runs through the saucer. This is meant to act like a landing bay and a launch deck.

Admiral Johnason wrote:It has a central tube that runs through the saucer. This is meant to act like a landing bay and a launch deck.

The problem is that there is no room in the forward section for shuttle doors.

Here is my analysis.

Akira and carrying capacity.

EAS length, 440 meters. DITL 464. EAS goes into detail on explaining the length of the Akira while DITL just lists 464. I will use EAS.

Akira is 642 pixels long, 1.46 pixels per meter. Akira Shuttlebay’s 1 & 2 are 32 pixels wide, 21.9 meters wide. Both Shuttlebay doors can fit fully deployed Tac-Fighters or can launch two folded wing Tac-Fighters.

Akira height of reasonable space for Tac-Fighter storage, 49 pixels. Width of reasonable space, 224 pixels. Length of reasonable space, 221 pixels. This translates to 33.5 meters tall, 153 meters wide, 151 meters long. Storing Tac-Fighters double high, an Akira could theoretically carry 12x12 (leave reasonable room) per level. This totals out to 288 fighters.

Holy shit… And I actually left significant room in there. Assuming 150 meters long and wide those fighters only take 116.7 meters (Peregrine is 9.7 meters with folded wings). To be conservative the second level could be tossed. This still leaves plenty of room on the entire ship for other systems. Supposedly the Akira’s warp cores are actual dual cores, each in the pylons to the nacelles. With this being a Warship design and proper storage of both fighters and torpedoes, wow. I can see over a thousand torpedoes on the Akira as well as more then 80 fighters easily.

Admiral Johnason wrote:Good work. I do hink that, yes, the GC could use a few fighter squadrons for backup and recon.

For recon would probes work better? Much smaller size and probably cheaper then a tac-fighter.

Anyway, why the interest in using fighters in ST? It just seems ST jumping on the fighter bandwagon to be like most other Sci-fi.

paladin wrote:

Admiral Johnason wrote:Good work. I do hink that, yes, the GC could use a few fighter squadrons for backup and recon.

For recon would probes work better? Much smaller size and probably cheaper then a tac-fighter.

Anyway, why the interest in using fighters in ST? It just seems ST jumping on the fighter bandwagon to be like most other Sci-fi.

Fighters provide a manueverable strike asset. The Federation is the only side that uses them effectively. They can do this because of the lack of accuracy by the other races. On the same token, the other races don't use them against the Federation because of the Federations accuracy.

As for recon, probes would make much more sense.

Alyeska wrote:Fighters provide a manueverable strike asset. The Federation is the only side that uses them effectively. They can do this because of the lack of accuracy by the other races. On the same token, the other races don't use them against the Federation because of the Federations accuracy.

They use fighters effectively? Aren't these the same people who flew in a stright line towards a Borg cube and got vaped?

IG-88E wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Fighters provide a manueverable strike asset. The Federation is the only side that uses them effectively. They can do this because of the lack of accuracy by the other races. On the same token, the other races don't use them against the Federation because of the Federations accuracy.

They use fighters effectively? Aren't these the same people who flew in a stright line towards a Borg cube and got vaped?

Capitalship combat is different then fighter combat. Tac-Fighters are relatively manueverable and seem to use random sweeping turns to come in on their target. This negates some of the accuracy of the Dominion/Breen/Cardassian accuracy (which is already lower then the Federation). Makes for an effective weapon system to use. This allows for a single Galaxy to take on a rather large number of Galor class ships. I wouldn't be surprised if it would put a Galaxy in range to seriously wound the Dominion Dreadnaught.

Had the Enterprise had some Tac-Fighters in Nemesis it would have really helped out against the Scimitar.

Alyeska wrote:

IG-88E wrote:They use fighters effectively? Aren't these the same people who flew in a stright line towards a Borg cube and got vaped?

Capitalship combat is different then fighter combat. Tac-Fighters are relatively manueverable and seem to use random sweeping turns to come in on their target. This negates some of the accuracy of the Dominion/Breen/Cardassian accuracy (which is already lower then the Federation). Makes for an effective weapon system to use. This allows for a single Galaxy to take on a rather large number of Galor class ships. I wouldn't be surprised if it would put a Galaxy in range to seriously wound the Dominion Dreadnaught.

Had the Enterprise had some Tac-Fighters in Nemesis it would have really helped out against the Scimitar.

What I'm referring to is that isn't there a scene in one of the episodes where a squadron of Tac fighters fly straight in at a cube and get wiped out?

IG-88E wrote:

Alyeska wrote:

IG-88E wrote:They use fighters effectively? Aren't these the same people who flew in a stright line towards a Borg cube and got vaped?

Capitalship combat is different then fighter combat. Tac-Fighters are relatively manueverable and seem to use random sweeping turns to come in on their target. This negates some of the accuracy of the Dominion/Breen/Cardassian accuracy (which is already lower then the Federation). Makes for an effective weapon system to use. This allows for a single Galaxy to take on a rather large number of Galor class ships. I wouldn't be surprised if it would put a Galaxy in range to seriously wound the Dominion Dreadnaught.

Had the Enterprise had some Tac-Fighters in Nemesis it would have really helped out against the Scimitar.

What I'm referring to is that isn't there a scene in one of the episodes where a squadron of Tac fighters fly straight in at a cube and get wiped out?

No. Tac-Fighters have never been used against the Borg.

Alyeska wrote:No. Tac-Fighters have never been used against the Borg.

*scratches head* Huh, Are you sure? I coulda sworn......well, guess not.

Then what were those things that tried to intercept at Mars?

boBW part II, maybe those weren't exactly Peregrine-class fighters but they were definitely something.

This is a good analysis. It's a wonder we don't see Tac-Fighters more often. We know that they train for them in the Academy, since Wesley and his squadron were flying trainer versions of Tac-Fighters in "The First Duty".

Given what we know about Tac-Fighters, I don't see why the Federation doesn't produce large squadrons of them instead of capital ships. I can easily see several Tac-Fighters coming from the same amount of materials to build a Soveriegn and it's certain that that amount of Tac-Fighters would have much greater worth in a fight than the Sovereign alone.

I mean, take your estimate that 10 Tac-Fighters might have a fighting chance against a Vorcha or D'Deridex. Also, lets say that there is enough materials in a single Soveriegn class ship to build 200 Tac-Fighters. Now we have a group of 10 D'Deridexes verses a Soveriegn. I find it unlikely that the Soveriegn will fare very well against that group, since the weapons on the Romulan ships are accurate hit the Soveriegn (unlike the Tac-Fighters). Now put that group of Romulan ships against the 200 Tac-Fighters that could have been made in the Soveriegns place. Instead of one big target that the Romulan ships can gang up on, they now have to face 200 little ones that will gang up on them. Since Tac-Fighters can carry a few photon torpedoes, let's say 6, suddenly the Romulan ships are facing many many targets that can hurt them effectively and attack them em masse with a StarTrek Missile Massacre. In the battle, the 200 Tac-Fighters are worth much more than the Soveriegn.

Personally, I'd think that the UFP would be better suited to build their Navy around carriers and fighters for fighting wars instead of battleships, but that's just me.

Gil Hamilton wrote:This is a good analysis. It's a wonder we don't see Tac-Fighters more often. We know that they train for them in the Academy, since Wesley and his squadron were flying trainer versions of Tac-Fighters in "The First Duty".

Given what we know about Tac-Fighters, I don't see why the Federation doesn't produce large squadrons of them instead of capital ships. I can easily see several Tac-Fighters coming from the same amount of materials to build a Soveriegn and it's certain that that amount of Tac-Fighters would have much greater worth in a fight than the Sovereign alone.

I mean, take your estimate that 10 Tac-Fighters might have a fighting chance against a Vorcha or D'Deridex. Also, lets say that there is enough materials in a single Soveriegn class ship to build 200 Tac-Fighters. Now we have a group of 10 D'Deridexes verses a Soveriegn. I find it unlikely that the Soveriegn will fare very well against that group, since the weapons on the Romulan ships are accurate hit the Soveriegn (unlike the Tac-Fighters). Now put that group of Romulan ships against the 200 Tac-Fighters that could have been made in the Soveriegns place. Instead of one big target that the Romulan ships can gang up on, they now have to face 200 little ones that will gang up on them. Since Tac-Fighters can carry a few photon torpedoes, let's say 6, suddenly the Romulan ships are facing many many targets that can hurt them effectively and attack them em masse with a StarTrek Missile Massacre. In the battle, the 200 Tac-Fighters are worth much more than the Soveriegn.

Personally, I'd think that the UFP would be better suited to build their Navy around carriers and fighters for fighting wars instead of battleships, but that's just me.

Agreed. At least DS9 started looking at the idea. However I think its safe to assume that the Akira is a start, a real attempt at a proper fighter carrier. Pitty we didn't see Akira's launch anything. From what I saw in the battle scenes they were so complex that the CGI department didn't really have time to show proper firing rates and weapons on anything but the Defiant.

Gil Hamilton wrote: Given what we know about Tac-Fighters, I don't see why the Federation doesn't produce large squadrons of them instead of capital ships.

Capital ships would have longer endurances then tac-fighters. That why the Federation would produce them more then tac-fighters.

Agreed that tac-fighters, especially if based on the Delta Flyer, could cause problems for aggressors of the Federation.

Someone previously on this board had the idea of basing a tac-fighter design on the Delta Flyer.