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There could have been. They could have discovered another one, maybe this one still inhabited. It would have been *gasp* continunity and *gasp* not another shitty holodeck malfunction episode.Darth Servo wrote:Chalk it up to standard Fed procedure: it isn't mentioned unless they are actually directly dealing with it.
It goes without saying that it was never mentioned prior to "Relics" since the writers hadn't come up with the idea yet and there was only a bit more than one season left of TNG after "Relics". Don't know if its mentioned in DS9 at all and it wouldn't be relevant to anything in Voyager on the other side of the galaxy.
Anyone who is stupid enough not to notice the large tractor beam emmitters and hail the thing before investigating and who's ships are as weak as Federation ones that is.Baron Mordo wrote:Anybody who found it would have investigated, and fallen prey to the same fate as the Jenolan.
IOW, anyone in the Federation would have suffered the same fate, but don't extend that characteristic to anyone else.Starfleet has dispatched two science vessels to study the Dyson Sphere - Picard
Doubtful.TheDarkling wrote:Are transporters hand me downs from the Vulcans? I would think they would be more stable if they were.
There are other reasons not to use transporters. For all you know, there was some kind of goofy ore in the hills; how many times have the Feds used shuttles in the show, despite having transporters?Lord Edam wrote:Given their obsession with not compromising pre-warp civilisations, if Vulcans had transporters they would've used them when they picked up T'Pol's grandmother in Carbon Creek in the early sixties, rather than sending a shuttle down to the planet.
Haven't the Vulcans been carefully spoon-feeding tech to the humans rather than simply giving it all to them at once? This would be consistent with that.Also, in Vanishing Point we hear the first human transport was in 2146, in Wisconsin, over 100m, unsuccesfuly. Of course, this was part of hoshi's 'dream' when she was stuck in the pattern buffer, so it might not mean anything.
Nevertheless, the humans DO eventually reach the Vulcans' level, and the Vulcans are still regarded as superior scientific minds. This would seem rather odd if humans were able to independently duplicate the effect of thousands of years of Vulcan warp-era technological development (remember how long it's been since the Romulans left) in the space of a century or two. If that were the case, you'd think humans everywhere would be full of sneering contempt for the haughty Vulcans and their feeble minds.I think earth developed their own phase pistols/cannons as well. The vulcans really don't like humans having as much technology as they do, so I can't see them giving away phase pistols when the humans have their own plasma rifles that are just as good.
Could not the Romulans have left in generational sublight ships? unless it was confirmed those ships were warp driven.Nevertheless, the humans DO eventually reach the Vulcans' level, and the Vulcans are still regarded as superior scientific minds. This would seem rather odd if humans were able to independently duplicate the effect of thousands of years of Vulcan warp-era technological development (remember how long it's been since the Romulans left)
Well actually it was mentioned in a recent Ent episode that the Vulcan Science Academy is rather resistant to unorthodox methods and theories (like time travel for example).in the space of a century or two. If that were the case, you'd think humans everywhere would be full of sneering contempt for the haughty Vulcans and their feeble minds.
The fact that they passed over numerous habitable planets on their way to Romulus and Remus indicates that either they were warp-driven or inconceivably stupid.TheDarkling wrote:Could not the Romulans have left in generational sublight ships? unless it was confirmed those ships were warp driven.Nevertheless, the humans DO eventually reach the Vulcans' level, and the Vulcans are still regarded as superior scientific minds. This would seem rather odd if humans were able to independently duplicate the effect of thousands of years of Vulcan warp-era technological development (remember how long it's been since the Romulans left)
That only proves the point: they're obviously still more knowledgeable in some ways, since the humans' disregard for the timeline has already produced hundreds of thousands of marginally divergent timelines (obviously split off very recently, considering the common existence of the E-D) by the time of "Parallels".Well actually it was mentioned in a recent Ent episode that the Vulcan Science Academy is rather resistant to unorthodox methods and theories (like time travel for example).in the space of a century or two. If that were the case, you'd think humans everywhere would be full of sneering contempt for the haughty Vulcans and their feeble minds.
Maybe they did stop off remember they were a few offshoots of the Romulans settled in what is now Federation space (the Debruun) as well as some long abandoned Romulan worlds, at the point they left Vulcan they were still a savage and divided people (although that is according to the Vulcans) and thus its possible the convoy kept splitting off and settling until what we now call the Romulans grew in power and unified the various "clans".The fact that they passed over numerous habitable planets on their way to Romulus and Remus indicates that either they were warp-driven or inconceivably stupid
No I'm sorry I wasn't clear they don't believe timetravel is possible even when presented with evidence, also parellels doesn't display multiple timelines as most people often assert the reason for those multiple universes was given in the episode.That only proves the point: they're obviously still more knowledgeable in some ways, since the humans' disregard for the timeline has already produced hundreds of thousands of marginally divergent timelines (obviously split off very recently, considering the common existence of the E-D) by the time of "Parallels".
Multi-generational spacecraft (arks) do not just stop off at a planet and then decide to pick up again; they're one-shot deals. The only thing that makes sense is a warp drive of some sort.TheDarkling wrote:Maybe they did stop off remember they were a few offshoots of the Romulans settled in what is now Federation space (the Debruun) as well as some long abandoned Romulan worlds, at the point they left Vulcan they were still a savage and divided people (although that is according to the Vulcans) and thus its possible the convoy kept splitting off and settling until what we now call the Romulans grew in power and unified the various "clans".The fact that they passed over numerous habitable planets on their way to Romulus and Remus indicates that either they were warp-driven or inconceivably stupid
No, the Federation's interpretation for the timelines was given in the episode. Considering these are the same idiots who think that the mathematical laws of probability can be altered technologically, a "fissure" can be found in a mathematically determined radius, and sonic weapons can be used in space, I think we all know what that's worth.No I'm sorry I wasn't clear they don't believe timetravel is possible even when presented with evidence, also parellels doesn't display multiple timelines as most people often assert the reason for those multiple universes was given in the episode.
And why would they split up? Weakness in numbers? How brilliant. Do you know how many DECADES or CENTURIES they'd be adding onto their trip without warp technology if they decide to skip over inhabitable planets on the way? What motivated them? Insanity?TheDarkling wrote:I did say the convoy could split up nice of you to ignore that though, the only other option of earth just be that amazing that they can close the gap with the Vulcans seems very odd.
Canon is ignorance of their own universe, hence the incidents I pointed out.On the second issue - whatever we have the argument before and I prefer to air on the side of canon and none galaxy wide ignorance of their own universe.
Ah, the infamous "but it's not enough to personally convince me argument"; last resort of the weak.The theory they gave is commmon in scifi (because it exists as a theory and gives good license to do a What if? episode) and you really have no reason to over rule what they said other than because you want to - thats not a good enough reason for me im afraid.
Well what caused the technological reversion that caused them to little more than a match for a newborn Earth space empire?Darth Wong wrote:And why would they split up? Weakness in numbers? How brilliant. Do you know how many DECADES or CENTURIES they'd be adding onto their trip without warp technology if they decide to skip over inhabitable planets on the way? What motivated them? Insanity?TheDarkling wrote:I did say the convoy could split up nice of you to ignore that though, the only other option of earth just be that amazing that they can close the gap with the Vulcans seems very odd.
No that would you using real life science to override canon, tell me why do you allow inter breeding between radically different "species" or warp drive etc?Canon is ignorance of their own universe, hence the incidents I pointed out.On the second issue - whatever we have the argument before and I prefer to air on the side of canon and none galaxy wide ignorance of their own universe.
Ah, do tell me where would snide charcater attacks rank?Ah, the infamous "but it's not enough to personally convince me argument"; last resort of the weak.The theory they gave is commmon in scifi (because it exists as a theory and gives good license to do a What if? episode) and you really have no reason to over rule what they said other than because you want to - thats not a good enough reason for me im afraid.
No technological reversion was necessary. They simply did not advance; they had already approached the end of their rope. Watch "Relics"; there has been precious little change since TOS.TheDarkling wrote:Well what caused the technological reversion that caused them to little more than a match for a newborn Earth space empire?
Who said anything about kicking it into high gear or trying to keep up with the Federation? You're acting as though there's been major technological advancement during that period, when there hasn't.Or prehaps the Romulans had the same odd technological stagnation as the Bajorans and simply remained static for 2000 years and then suddenly kicked it nito high gear so they could keep up with the Federation.
With warp drive, you must obviously travel a much greater distance to be assured of effective isolation from the parent world. It is quite clear why they might choose to travel to a more distant world. Face it; you have no explanation while I do.While skipping planets makes little sense it makes little sense even if they had warp drive since I doubt moving a huge amount of people is an easy task.
Wrong, dumb-ass. This has been dealt with countless times before. No canon is altered in any way; it is only being interpreted differently. You choose the most simple-minded possible interpretation, while I choose one that makes sense. How silly of me.No that would you using real life science to override canon, tell me why do you allow inter breeding between radically different "species" or warp drive etc?
How is it a "character attack" to criticize your argument?Ah, do tell me where would snide charcater attacks rank?Ah, the infamous "but it's not enough to personally convince me argument"; last resort of the weak.
"Rampant egomania", eh? Nice non-rebuttal. See your previous accusation of character attacks, then look up the words "pot", "kettle", and "black".I have a fundamental difference of opinion on the matter just because I don't have the rampant egomania to declare myself as the sole arbiter of right and wrong I come under fire for being "weak", well I hope you will excuse me while I don't really care.
Good question although Enterprise gives the impression that the Warp 5 project would have ready far quicker if the Vulcans hadn't kept roadblocking the human scientists by having the various earth governments reel them in.Lord Poe wrote:Let's see....
How did humans develop a transporter, when they can't develop tractor beams, shields, photon torpedoes, a warp drive that can achieve warp 5, and proper sensors?
TheDarkling wrote:Good question although Enterprise gives the impression that the Warp 5 project would have ready far quicker if the Vulcans hadn't kept roadblocking the human scientists by having the various earth governments reel them in.Lord Poe wrote:Let's see....
How did humans develop a transporter, when they can't develop tractor beams, shields, photon torpedoes, a warp drive that can achieve warp 5, and proper sensors?
This gives a whole new meaning to the term "C-Blocking...."