StarDestroyer.Net BBS

But only for a "Ships of the Line" 2011 calendar. Doug Drexler designed it. Pierre Drolet modeled it. Now awaiting hull graphics from Mike Okuda.



Click here to read the entry on Doug Drexler's blog. Since it's only a teaser, we don't get much. But I expect a full entry on the model later with multiple view renders. He seems to be trying to link the design lineage between the NX-01 and the Constitution-class. Looks good from this angle, but I will wait for hi-res renders to judge better.

I am liking what I see. That feels like what the NX class should have been like from the start. Reminiscent of the Akira, but also very different.

Nice. I like how it keep the nacelles connected through the original tail booms - you can see the Constitution nacelle strut design emerging but it keeps the NX's lines.

Just makes it all the more sad that the right people weren't allowed to do the series itself.

Urgh. Still looks fugly to me. Also de refits commonly had extra honging great sections to existing designs? That thing's going to mess up the mass arrangement and fuck up the engines something awful.

Bounty wrote:Just makes it all the more sad that the right people weren't allowed to do the series itself.

From what I understand the right people were on the job. But higher ups went AKIRA! AKIRA! AKIRA! on them. I guess this design is as close as what the NX-01 would have been as designed by the actual series production team if Berman hadn't had a boner for the AKIRA!

Too bad, being a calendar image, it wont be canon.

Crazedwraith wrote:Urgh. Still looks fugly to me. Also de refits commonly had extra honging great sections to existing designs? That thing's going to mess up the mass arrangement and fuck up the engines something awful.

If you go by the theory that the bulk of a ship's mass is in the nacelles, this would actually even it out, and it'd finally get the core out of the habited section of the ship.

Too bad, being a calendar image, it wont be canon.

Meh. Fuck canon; it's a design by the people who did the original, so it's as good as real to me.

Bounty wrote:

Crazedwraith wrote:Urgh. Still looks fugly to me. Also de refits commonly had extra honging great sections to existing designs? That thing's going to mess up the mass arrangement and fuck up the engines something awful.

If you go by the theory that the bulk of a ship's mass is in the nacelles, this would actually even it out, and it'd finally get the core out of the habited section of the ship.

Well then its engine arrangement was fucked before hand and they somehow compensated for it. So if they add all the extra mass they're going to have toe reconfigure the engines somehow to account for that.

Perhaps my initial post was a little harsh; its not a bad design per se. A little overcomplicated perhaps. (I like that the Starfleet museum ships start off a solid blocks and then evolve all the complicated nacelle/primary.secondary hulls business)

However if that really was going to be the season 5 design its silly to think that unless there was supposed to be a gap of several years between it and season 4, they would refit the original NX to that. I mean they had what two NX starships out there? Why pull one of them back into the fuck with it instead of incorporating those modifications in the next NX to be built from scratch? And avoid what must be an excess amount of internal retooling for that pod.

Well it looks like it has new or reconfigured warp engines anyway.
It's not ideal but I like the primitive Constitution feel it has over the damn half-assed Akira of the show.

So they're going from "wannabe Akira class" to "wannabe Constitution class."

I doubt the "wannabe stardrive section" will help much, considering it changes the center of mass so dramatically. If they want to change the NX class' appearance that much, they might as well say it's a DIFFERENT CLASS and avoid giving everyone headaches. Maybe an NY class starship, which uses proven NX class components, but is otherwise a different ship?

Sidewinder wrote:So they're going from "wannabe Akira class" to "wannabe Constitution class."

I doubt the "wannabe stardrive section" will help much, considering it changes the center of mass so dramatically. If they want to change the NX class' appearance that much, they might as well say it's a DIFFERENT CLASS and avoid giving everyone headaches. Maybe an NY class starship, which uses proven NX class components, but is otherwise a different ship?

Jesus craps, is there anything that fanboys won't bitch about? Looks like they didn't have many choices here, they could keep what they had, design a new ship or try and shoehorn a clear predecessor to the Big E in.

The first option was roundly condemned as shite.

The second idea has merit but would most likely be drowned in the howl of rage by the tools in the fan community. "Because it isn't the Daedalus class" or some other such bullshit.

The third also has merit and has the benefit of likely being able to recycle some of their models and footage, bring the show further into line with what we all hoped for when the show aired etc.

I'd take a wannabe Constitution over a wannabe Akira anyway.
One is what the design lineage will naturally form into, the other is a gigantic battle-sled designed for the TNG era.

Something I've never really thought about before, but now am curious. Is there any physical access up the pylons? Relative to the rest of the ship, they look very thin - is it just crawl spaces or external (i.e. access from space) only to get to the nacelles or are they designed never to be accessed? I don't remember ever seeing anyone / hearing anyone talking about it, but more experienced minds...?

El Moose Monstero wrote:Something I've never really thought about before, but now am curious. Is there any physical access up the pylons? Relative to the rest of the ship, they look very thin - is it just crawl spaces or external (i.e. access from space) only to get to the nacelles or are they designed never to be accessed? I don't remember ever seeing anyone / hearing anyone talking about it, but more experienced minds...?

In TOS or ENT? In ENT I recall a couple episodes where Tucker was monkeying around in them and they had a crapload of people sandwiched in them for an Ep. So there must be a ladder or something in there somewhere.

El Moose Monstero wrote:Something I've never really thought about before, but now am curious. Is there any physical access up the pylons? Relative to the rest of the ship, they look very thin - is it just crawl spaces or external (i.e. access from space) only to get to the nacelles or are they designed never to be accessed? I don't remember ever seeing anyone / hearing anyone talking about it, but more experienced minds...?

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Catwalk

In Enterprise the nacelles had a shielded maintenance shaft accessible when the engines were shut down; it was used as a radiation shelter at least once. In TOS, the nacelles had access ladders according to the blueprints, but the interiors weren't shown in the show..

Cpl Kendall wrote:Jesus craps, is there anything that fanboys won't bitch about? Looks like they didn't have many choices here, they could keep what they had, design a new ship or try and shoehorn a clear predecessor to the Big E in.

My main issue is how an additional Q knows how many tons of metal, attached to an area NOT within the NX class' center of gravity, will affect the ship's handling. Remember how difficult it was to road march with a 50-pound, 12-inches-thick rucksack on your back? Now imagine you have a 50-pound, 12-inches-thick TUMOR there that you can never remove, and how its mass will affect the way you walk.

Sidewinder wrote:

Cpl Kendall wrote:Jesus craps, is there anything that fanboys won't bitch about? Looks like they didn't have many choices here, they could keep what they had, design a new ship or try and shoehorn a clear predecessor to the Big E in.

My main issue is how an additional Q knows how many tons of metal, attached to an area NOT within the NX class' center of gravity, will affect the ship's handling. Remember how difficult it was to road march with a 50-pound, 12-inches-thick rucksack on your back? Now imagine you have a 50-pound, 12-inches-thick TUMOR there that you can never remove, and how its mass will affect the way you walk.

You change the ships centre of mass can you not, it's not like we don't o similar things right now with wet vessels.

Cpl Kendall wrote:You change the ships centre of mass can you not, it's not like we don't o similar things right now with wet vessels.

Wet vessels don't move in three dimensions; starships DO.

Sidewinder wrote: Wet vessels don't move in three dimensions; starships DO.

No SHIT, you don't SAY?

Bounty already made a good point up above us about the nacelles perhaps being rather heavy evening this out.

Anyways, this looks half-decent, so who cares. ST has played fast and loose with science for decades now.

So they reconfigure the flight computer. So what? It appears the impulse drives are mounted on the nacelle pylons anyway, so there's serious changes going on.

Cpl Kendall wrote: No SHIT, you don't SAY?

Bounty already made a good point up above us about the nacelles perhaps being rather heavy evening this out.

Anyways, this looks half-decent, so who cares. ST has played fast and loose with science for decades now.

Except as I pointed out: Its still a massive change in mass distribution; it can't cancel out the nacelles because the nacelles must have already cancelled out. Otherwise the ship wouldn't have been able to fly in the first four seasons in its original configuration.

The idea you can just bolt another hull on the bottom and it'll be fine and dandy is ridiculous. You're basically going to have to strip and rebuilt the entire damn ship. It'd be easier to build a new one from scratch.

Stark wrote:So they reconfigure the flight computer. So what? It appears the impulse drives are mounted on the nacelle pylons anyway, so there's serious changes going on.

Maybe a better analogy would have been a modern fighter, many of which are un-flyable without the computer because there unstable.

Crazedwraith wrote:

Except as I pointed out: Its still a massive change in mass distribution; it can't cancel out the nacelles because the nacelles must have already cancelled out. Otherwise the ship wouldn't have been able to fly in the first four seasons in its original configuration.

The idea you can just bolt another hull on the bottom and it'll be fine and dandy is ridiculous. You're basically going to have to strip and rebuilt the entire damn ship. It'd be easier to build a new one from scratch.

Going by the admit-tingly poor picture, the nacelles are at around the same height they where before the refit, just moved back and there is now a rather large hull hanging at the bottom. Honestly I'm going to assume that they sorted out the whole issue, otherwise SF is fucking retarded and nothing in the universe makes any sense.

Besides, they did strip down the TOS Big E and build a new ship around the remnants, so they obviously don't mind doing it. Maybe there are political considerations that prompt it. *shrug*

Crazedwraith wrote:

Cpl Kendall wrote: No SHIT, you don't SAY?

Bounty already made a good point up above us about the nacelles perhaps being rather heavy evening this out.

Anyways, this looks half-decent, so who cares. ST has played fast and loose with science for decades now.

Except as I pointed out: Its still a massive change in mass distribution; it can't cancel out the nacelles because the nacelles must have already cancelled out. Otherwise the ship wouldn't have been able to fly in the first four seasons in its original configuration.

The idea you can just bolt another hull on the bottom and it'll be fine and dandy is ridiculous. You're basically going to have to strip and rebuilt the entire damn ship. It'd be easier to build a new one from scratch.

Guess what Saucer Separation does to mass distribution on the Galaxy class? And they didn't need to change their engine placement at all. In that particular shot of the NX refit, those happen to be new warp engines. So they are compensating for the change. But they do not have to compensate like you think they do.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Besides, they did strip down the TOS Big E and build a new ship around the remnants, so they obviously don't mind doing it.

Except the Constitution class refit preserves the original ship's overall shape. The Big E getting a refit is like you taking a 1960s muscle car, replacing the engine and transmission with a modern one, and then adding a spoiler and other aesthetic/aerodynamic features. The NX refit is like you taking the muscle car, and then shoehorning a boiler and steam turbine in the trunk.

Why? Because you say so? The nacelles are different, the mass layout is different, the impulse drives appear to be different. The layout is now now less uneven or 'silly' than any other ST ship, all of which manouvre fine with apparently small and poorly positioned impulse drives.