StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Nice review. I loved your comparision of the various captains.

Regards
Fina

Why'd the technical department hate the holo-projector?

Possibily because they would no longer need to set up the view screen now that they just made the actor stand beween a bunch of lines on the floor?

The visual effects would have been that bit more complicated. A viewscreen conversation just needs to be superimposed over the blue/greenscreen built into the bridge set. Off the top of my head, it looks as if the holo-communicator would require the shot to be done twice from the exact same angle (one with the guy being talked to, one without), then you'd have to make up a split-screen effect from these two shots, and on top of that you'd need some specialised animation to show the holographic image forming. Plus, if you wanted the recipient to look like a hologram rather than just a person standing there, that'd require even more time and money to accomplish (something which they didn't even do in DS9; Nemesis was the only time they tried anything like that, IIRC).

Odds are the whole thing wasn't really worth it for something that at the end of the day was really just a cosmetic detail that didn't have much effect on the storyline.

"Don't fuck with the Sisko" Bwahahahaha

Although I personally didn't like the setting much, the DS9 characters are among my favourite Trek characters, mostly because of how unorthodox Sisko seems as a Starfleet Captain.

DaveJB wrote:The visual effects would have been that bit more complicated. A viewscreen conversation just needs to be superimposed over the blue/greenscreen built into the bridge set. Off the top of my head, it looks as if the holo-communicator would require the shot to be done twice from the exact same angle (one with the guy being talked to, one without), then you'd have to make up a split-screen effect from these two shots, and on top of that you'd need some specialised animation to show the holographic image forming. Plus, if you wanted the recipient to look like a hologram rather than just a person standing there, that'd require even more time and money to accomplish (something which they didn't even do in DS9; Nemesis was the only time they tried anything like that, IIRC).

Odds are the whole thing wasn't really worth it for something that at the end of the day was really just a cosmetic detail that didn't have much effect on the storyline.

Yeah, he effects on Shinzon's hologram in NEM was something I always liked.

Anyway, IIRC the communicator appeared here appeared here because Moore had been pushing for it; he felt the view-screen had worked back in the TOS, but the concept hadn't aged well, especially in light of the introduction of the holodeck/holo-technology. Behr agreed that it made dramatic interaction/dialogue difficult. But the aforementioned technical limitations arose and so, it only made one more appearance in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?".

While a chemical weapon that would ruin a world only for Cardassians may be contrived, I don't see that it's out of the realm of possibility that the Maquis could have been developing chemical weapons.

A number of Starfleet officers defected and joined the Maquis, so they weren't all farmers and colonists. They may have had a number of scientists capable of the work.

This was always an episode I felt was great right until the ending, where we get a more happy-go-lucky Sisko and Dax talking about how fun it is to be the bad guy, rather than looking deeply at the implications of what Sisko had to do in order to get Eddington. In that way, "In the Pale Moonlight" was a far better episode because it dealt with the consequences, whereas this one whitewashed them away with pithy lines in the end. While it's arguable what Sisko did here was less grievous than what he did in "ItPM", his actions were still against his own principles as well as the principles of Starfleet, and it was a wasted opportunity not to examine that.

CaptJodan wrote:This was always an episode I felt was great right until the ending, where we get a more happy-go-lucky Sisko and Dax talking about how fun it is to be the bad guy, rather than looking deeply at the implications of what Sisko had to do in order to get Eddington. In that way, "In the Pale Moonlight" was a far better episode because it dealt with the consequences, whereas this one whitewashed them away with pithy lines in the end. While it's arguable what Sisko did here was less grievous than what he did in "ItPM", his actions were still against his own principles as well as the principles of Starfleet, and it was a wasted opportunity not to examine that.

Actually I'd call this one far more serious than ItPM. That simply involved forging data, lying through his teeth, and being an accessory to the murder of one man, in order to hoodwink a neighbouring power into a war. None of which is particularly pleasant, but given the track record of the Dominion as an occupying power, and their plans for the Alpha Quadrant, defeating them was worth the cost.

This, on the other hand, consisted of committing an act reminiscent of Halabja simply to arrest a single man.

LordOskuro wrote:"Don't fuck with the Sisko" Bwahahahaha

The following line "Not wishing to fuck with the Sisko..." got an even bigger laugh out of me.

Although I personally didn't like the setting much, the DS9 characters are among my favourite Trek characters, mostly because of how unorthodox Sisko seems as a Starfleet Captain.

I'd attribute that to the characters actually being allowed to have conflicts with each other and carry personality flaws. Contrasted with Voyagers big happy lobotomized family, you'd almost wonder if the shows were part of the same franchise.

The DS9 reviews seem to be your best, I don't know if its because of the show content or what, but you get the best jokes/humor out of them.

none of the videos seem to be making it onto the site. Why is that?

DaveJB wrote:The visual effects would have been that bit more complicated. A viewscreen conversation just needs to be superimposed over the blue/greenscreen built into the bridge set. Off the top of my head, it looks as if the holo-communicator would require the shot to be done twice from the exact same angle (one with the guy being talked to, one without), then you'd have to make up a split-screen effect from these two shots, and on top of that you'd need some specialised animation to show the holographic image forming. Plus, if you wanted the recipient to look like a hologram rather than just a person standing there, that'd require even more time and money to accomplish (something which they didn't even do in DS9; Nemesis was the only time they tried anything like that, IIRC).

Odds are the whole thing wasn't really worth it for something that at the end of the day was really just a cosmetic detail that didn't have much effect on the storyline.

Are you shitting me? They actually did that?

It looks exactly as if it was just a normal conversation with two actors next to each other. Why would they go to that effort just to EXACTLY replicate nothing changing?

I could understand them objecting if they were being put out of a job by the fact there was no need for them when between ship communications were just handled by filming both guys on set, which was what I thought was the case.

Steel wrote:Are you shitting me? They actually did that?

I can't say for certain, but since I do quite a bit of VFX and editing work myself, I believe that's the kind of thing they were doing. You could just crossfade between a shot of Sisko facing the empty holo-communicator and then the same shot with the other guy standing there, but that would have looked cheap and terrible. Doing a decent-looking materialisation effect would have taken much more time.

It looks exactly as if it was just a normal conversation with two actors next to each other. Why would they go to that effort just to EXACTLY replicate nothing changing?

I think what they actually wanted to achieve was more like the effect that you get when Holo-Shinzon materialises in Picard's ready room in Nemesis. However, the budget and technology of the time wouldn't support it, so all it looked like was, as you said, two guys standing next to each other.

I could understand them objecting if they were being put out of a job by the fact there was no need for them when between ship communications were just handled by filming both guys on set, which was what I thought was the case.

It's actually quite the opposite - the special animations for the holo communicator would have actually required more time and effort from the VFX team compared to just matting a picture into the bridge viewscreen. However, this would have eaten into the VFX team's overall time on the episode, for something that had no real benefit to the show - time that could have been spend filming more space battles, for instance.