StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Great review, lovely Asimov-quote.

Chuck's done it again.

Just one question, can i get some info on that Korean Robot city thing?

Zor

Definitely one of the stellar episodes of this mixed-quality season, though at points it made it's arguments rather clumsily. Also a good Riker episode. We see him being forced to go against his own sentiments and experience to argue a case he doesn't believe in. The moment when Riker discovers the "off" switch is wonderfully played by Frakes: he smiles in triumph for just a moment, then his face clouds over when he fully realises what this will mean to the android he calls his friend. He doesn't want to do this, but has no choice since he's been assigned as prosecutor, and he hates himself as he proceeds upon his case with ruthless efficiency.

The weakness of this story is the one imposed by the general weakness of the character Data as Pinnochio. It is not Melinda Snodgrass' fault and she rises above this stereotype as best she can, but it throws a shadow over every action of the script regarding Data's own defence of himself. Without this, Data could have made a far stronger case for himself when called to testify. Instead, he was rendered a wholly passive agent at his own hearing.

In addition: Data has to be saved by other people because he can't seem to argue for his own right to exist —except for that one scene with the pissy Bruce Maddox. If this was indeed the measure of a man, which Data aspires to be regarded as, he didn't quite measure up since he did not stand up for himself but let Picard do it all for him. Imagine how much more of a point it would have made if Data had brought up the whole slavery issue in open court and for added measure tossed in the Asimov quote, or a paraphrase of it. Data would have fully come into his own with this one story with such a scene, and would indeed have met the measure of a man. Instead, the episode only goes halfway along that journey, makes a politically correct stance on how wrong slavery is, and leaves Data more or less the same little plastic Pinnochio he was before the Enterprise hauled into starbase. "The Measure Of A Man" is a good episode, but it could have been so much more.

That was amazing I am very tempted to watch this episode now thanks chuck.

A lot of good quips from Chunk this time:

• The whole Data is a toaster / Adama v Cylon bit
  
  Google (and later Real Dolls) becoming a self aware being
  
  "South Korea will show their technological skill by building a robot city by 2013; and then North Korea will then show there skill by blowing up!"

hunter5 wrote:That was amazing I am very tempted to watch this episode now thanks chuck.

As Degan pointed out, while there are some flaws, overall it is one of the better episodes, though I do agree that it would have been better to have Data to use that positronic brain of his to masterfully argue his own case, especially if all of Picard's earlier attempts had failed to fully dissuade the JAG.

Was this episode before or after the one in which Data makes a daughter? The one that Riker hits on, Starfleet wanted to disect and dies at the end of the episode, never to be mentioned again.

dworkin wrote:Was this episode before or after the one in which Data makes a daughter? The one that Riker hits on, Starfleet wanted to disect and dies at the end of the episode, never to be mentioned again.

Your thinking of the "The Offspring", and it happens after this episode. IIRC they make a few references back to "The Measure of a Man' in that one.

Also, Data mentions reports he, I guess regularly, sends to Maddox to help further Maddox's own research in yet another episode called "Data's Day".

dworkin wrote:The one that Riker hits on, Starfleet wanted to disect and dies at the end of the episode, never to be mentioned again.

Which episodes did you feel Lal should have been referenced in? How do you feel it would have contributed to those stories?

Data being surprisingly meek and compliant at his defence trial has a reason, since Data was made by Soong in reaction to Lore, who was so sure of himself and confident, that self-confidence went up all the way into criminal sociopathy.

In a similar situation I'd doubt the pompous EMH, wiseguy Vic Fontaine, and wily Moriarty would quite so passive.

Big Orange wrote:Data being surprisingly meek and compliant at his defence trial has a reason, since Data was made by Soong in reaction to Lore, who was so sure of himself and confident, that self-confidence went up all the way into criminal sociopathy.

In a similar situation I'd doubt the pompous EMH, wiseguy Vic Fontaine, and wily Moriarty would quite so passive.

A nice bit of trivia to be sure, but utterly irrelevant to the issue of whether or not the script and development of the character Data suffered as a result.

dworkin wrote:Was this episode before or after the one in which Data makes a daughter? The one that Riker hits on, Starfleet wanted to disect and dies at the end of the episode, never to be mentioned again.

Lal was mentioned several times in later episodes, both by Data and others as his 'daughter'.