Could the Q be merely humanoids with advanced technology?

[Rossum]

After looking through the archives on this site I came across the "Do not provoke the Borg" post. Its been years since I've watched an episode of Star Trek and particularly one with the Q in it.

I recall the Q doing things like creating illusions, teleportation, moving large objects across vast distances, and a few other things. But these things aren't too different from Federation technology although on a much vaster scale. The trickster Q was able to be separated from his source of power "to teach him a lesson" and the Q can be killed with their own weapons or if they die when separated from their power (as demonstrated in the Voyager episodes where one wanted to commit suicide and another when there was a Civil War in the continuum).

At the end of the Next Generation series, Q had Picard go though a huge adventure thing to see if mankind was worthy of existance, but that whole event seemed to involve several separate timelines and a space anomaly that exploded backwards in time (except when it exploded forwards). It would make alot more sense if it turned out that Q had dumped Picard into a really advanced holodeck and was just messing with his mind. After all, I'm pretty sure a reversed time explosion capable of preventing terrestrial life from forming would also mess up alot of other planets in the galexy. It would be like trying to kill a bunch of fish upstream by dumping radioactive waste into the mouth of the river and setting off a depth charge that makes the river flow backwards for a few days. I know Q had wanted Picard to stop it but sheesh.


I have the theory that the Q aren't nearly as individually powerful as they try to look. They could just as easily be something akin to the Time Lords from Doctor Who, individually they could be pretty resilient and long-lived humanoids but have a bunch of advanced tech somewhere that lets them move ships around by snapping their fingers.

Soo... have the Q ever done anything that would truly indicate that they are godlike energy beings instead of sufficiently advanced jerkasses with access to some powerful technology?

Actually... has Q ever teleported a space craft fast enough that a Star Destroyer can't outrun it?

[Temujin]

I've never been impressed with the Q. I was just watching the episode the Devil's Due (the one with Ardra), and while they question whether Ardra herself might be a Q, they also point out how all her feats are duplicatable with their current technology given some proper prep time. I've always figured the Q were just like that, just with better technology. Hell, most of the crap they pull could be illusions created via an elaborate holodeck, or even something on a psychic level. The Melkotians pulled something like the latter in Spectre of the Gun.

[FaxModem1]

Well, Q does throw the Enterprise-D from one end of the galaxy to the other in the span of a few minutes, with no damage done to it. Well, aside from the attacking Borg.

[Batman]

Err no he didn't. If memory serves the distance was a measly 7000 lightyears.

[The Romulan Republic]

Err no he didn't. If memory serves the distance was a measly 7000 lightyears.

7,000 light years probably still outclasses a Star Destroyer.

He also offers to send Voyager home to bribe Janeway.

[Jake]

From here: he throws them 7000 light years in 12 sec which would be 2,100,000ly/hr or 210X faster than star war's 10,000 ly/hr. However, if he was a god couldn't he just snap his fingers and poof, they are there? He also appeared to be threatened by Guinan, also ungodlike behavior.

[Ghost Rider]

The Q and the Grey is usually cited as the best reason of the Q being nothing more then powerful humanoids with neato tech.

[Batman]

Err no he didn't. If memory serves the distance was a measly 7000 lightyears.

7,000 light years probably still outclasses a Star Destroyer.

With the time frame involved, absolutely (IIRC he managed to so within a few minutes). I was nevertheless DECIDEDLY not from one end of the galaxy to another.

He also offers to send Voyager home to bribe Janeway.

An offer he never made good on and he's KNOWN to be a liar, so that doesn't really tell us much.

[Rossum]

Also, in the Q and the Grey the Lady Q was able to modify Voyagers shields in order to let them travel through an exploding supernova so that they could enter the Q continuum. That at least shows that a Q separated from their power know how to use technology in order to get back home. And since Lady Q lost her powers due to the damage to the Continuum and not having them removed by her fellows, then yeah... their powers are not innate to themselves.


Although the scenes involving Q turning allegedly turning his kid into an amoeba and having the kid react to it, and the Next Generation episode where a girl discovers that she is actually a member of the Q and has access to their power does shed some doubt on their 'powers' being smoke and mirrors.

If Q turning his son into an amoeba was a trick with holodecks or something then the kid would probably understand the principle of how it worked... though being trapped in a simulation of being an ameboa would still be pretty unpleasant even if the act didn't actually involve getting 99.999% of your body mass messed up.

Having a Q born on another planet without knowledge of who she is using the Q powers could just mean that whatever supercomputer interface the Q use gave her some limited access due to her DNA or whatnot being recognized as Q.

[Ghost Rider]

The largest reason the Q and the Grey demonstrates a technology is the weapons. The Voyager crew could simply pick up a Q weapon, and threaten them with this and the Q did not just make said weapons vanish out of their hands.

[RedImperator]

also offers to send Voyager home to bribe Janeway.

An offer he never made good on and he's KNOWN to be a liar, so that doesn't really tell us much.

The Q themselves seem to get around the galaxy okay, and there's no indication it was any kind of strain on Q to send Enterprise 7000 light years. It's probably not a huge leap to say Q likely could have sent Voyager home.

[Stofsk]

I don't have a problem with Q having magic technology as a source for his powers. Look no further than TOS to see supposed god beings who are really just advanced aliens. (Trelayn from 'The Squire of Gothos', the Organians, the episode 'The Apple', hell even Gary Mitchell)

I don't even think it breaks from it thematically. The idea that the Q have magic powers without any reason at all breaks it more for me than anything else.

[Uraniun235]

It makes perfect sense that Q would be (or at least was originally intended to be) a "flim-flam man" using technology to pretend to be a god. It's totally consistent with everything that came before him.

[Stofsk]

I like how in Tapestry Q tells Picard he's dead and in the afterlife, and that he's god. Picard immediately goes lol stfu

[Chris OFarrell]

There is no direct evidence that the Q are tricksters that use advanced technology. Although WHAT the Q are and what their powers are, well, its harder to say. A lot harder.

For example. The feets the Q have shown and the abilities they have shown are far beyond just about any other being in Star Trek, but a LOT of what we see is also shaded with Q's taste for the theatric. For example, blasting the Enterprise-D 7,000 light years into the path of a Borg Cube in a few seconds as opposed to his very very slow chase of the Enterprise-D in 'Encounter at Farpoint' or his ability to simply materailize onto the bridge of the E-D in Q-Who when it was going full throttle. I mean simply transporting the E-D from point to point probably would have been a lot less cool after all.

I think its also reasonobly clear that the Q draw their power from a central source, that being the Q-Continuum. When access to said Continuum was shut off to the female Q in the Voyager Episode Which Should Never Be Mentioned, she lost all her power for example. But evidence speeks strongly against this being some kind of technology that they can access for several reasons;

1. The Continuum itself is portrayed as being less of a place and more as a state of being that 'lesser' species can't really understand, but only filter through the power of a Q.

2. In the civil war between the Q, neither side clearly were able to 'take control' of any hypthetical technology to render the other side powerless, which if it existed should have been the only goal of both sides. And there were significant effects in realspace from said war, incluiding stars going supernova as, quite literal, collateral damage on a Galactic scale. The Voyager crew fighting the Q with 'muskets' I simply interpert as the female Q giving them all the power of the Q, like Q did to Riker in TNG. Which also shows that the Q may not be a race as such, but a group. Of course, given that they can apparently change their species at a whim using their power, this might be debatable if there even exists such as thing AS a Q, or if they are/were a species that simply stumbled on this power, some kind of uber psychic power or something I guess, and learned to control it.

3. Amanda Rogers. The Q *didn't know* if she had the power of a Q, born to human parents as a human. When if they had such technology powering their civilisation, they should have known instatly if she had begun accessing it and simply been able to cut her off. Its implied when Q talks to the other Q's in the episode, that they honestly DON'T know and they are keeping a close eye on her to see if she will either come with them, or they'll have to destroy her rather then risk her running amock.

4. Quin of course turns all this upside down to an extent, but it at least suggests a group of Q can impose their will upon one Q. Its clear that the other Q can control a Q's power, so Quin couldn't commit suicide (and whenever he tried, he just ended up doing something bad to the people or things around him) and could strip him of his powers (and Q's for that matter) when they wanted. The Civil War being special probably because it was a much more even contest.

5. And when the Q don't have access to their powers, they STILL have vast knoweldge. The Lady Q for example with a toss away line and an order or two to Torres showed Voyager how to increase their shield strength by a factor of 10 times (knowledge they promptly forgot of course). q, the kid of Q, knew 'a great trick' how to create some kind of point to point wormholes using nothing by the Delta Flyers deflector dish to blast hundreds or thousands of light years without any problems. Again, something Voyagers crew just ignored. I mean why go over the flyers logs with a fine toothcomb and get back to Earth in a week when you can serve under Captian Queen Bitch for another decade or two...


I think thre is more then enough evidence to say that the Q do not use technology, but draw on some kind of power that only they can access, and collectivly enforce with some level of rule.

[Stofsk]

The thing I dislike about them being tech users story wise is it takes some of the punch out of the whole judging humanity thing. If they just use tech, they are no different than the Federation at all. Even judging other people is something the season one Feds were pretty arrogant about themselves; to say they are already equal to gods just strikes me as being contrary to the idea that the trial never ends.

Really, I can see it working in a way here, but it takes a certain punch out of everything Q says and does to me.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Wasn't Picard opposed to the idea that the Q can sit in judgement of another race? That has more punch to it if the Q were a hyper-advanced race as opposed to literal god-beings.

It can always be a combination of things. The Organians were made up of 'pure energy' and 'pure thought', so far in advance of the Federation as humans were to the amoeba. It doesn't necessarily mean they had to have technology, and Spock saw no sign of technology on the planet. However, to use the Trelayne example, nobody detected the device Trelayne used either, but Spock theorised that everything they've observed is consistent with up-scale technology like super-advanced transporters and stuff like replicators. Trelayne, the Organians, and plenty of other such races are very similar to the Q. The Metrons stopped the Enterprise and the Gorn cruiser dead in space. That's the same level of power Q used to stop the Enterprise numerous times. The Metrons are a good example, because at the end of that episode, Kirk's display of mercy so impressed the Metron representative that he mused how humanity might be ready to join the Metrons in co-existence in about a thousand years. That wouldn't be possible if not for advances in technology IMO.

[chris0101]

We know so little about the Q that I don't think that we can make that sort of a judgment.

1. They are capable of moving objects at very rapid velocities across the Milky Way (and maybe other galaxies)
2. Appear to be able to spontaneously appear or give the appearance of doing so
3. Undetectable by normal sensors
4. Can give their "Q" powers to others and take it away from other "Q"
5. At least some Q enjoy interacting and demonstrating their superiority with less potent beings
6. The Q do reproduce and they do seem to have children that "age" in a sense.
7. They are not omnipotent and can be killed.

What we don't know:

1. Numbers of Q, and whether this continuum has all Q. We also have little information about how their social structure, hierarchies, etc.
2. Are the Q corporeal or not?
3. Their evolutionary history and how they became so potent
4. How their "Q" powers even work (do they draw on technology or is innate?)
5. What do the Q perceive in their continuum versus what a human would perceive
6. Why do the Q interact with lesser beings so often?

At this point, I don't think that we can judge.

[lordofchange13]

it is possible that they gain there power by technology, but why would they be humanoids? not every thing in star trek has to be a humanoid. there is at least some proof that they use technology of some sort. then the continuum whas at war, Q said the both sides made weapons that can kill each other.

[Uraniun235]

I know it's not entirely intuitive, but as an FYI some of the forums here move much more slowly than others - so a topic halfway down the page in PST is over a month old, while a topic halfway down the page in N&P may have been posted in today.


Anyway, they don't have to appear as humanoids. Something representative of the Continuum appeared as a ring with three snake-heads growing out of it way back in first season TNG.

[Solauren]

yes, I know, ongoing necromancy, but, since this forum is so dead anyway....

Something to consider - We've seen another spiecies, using purely technology, knock the Enterprise-D around at Transwarp speed.

The Aldeans specifically (When the Bow breaks). They hit the Enterprise with a Repulsor beam, the enterprise flies around for bit (in fact, I think they reused that series for the first Borg encounter episode), and tada, you're 3 days away at Warp 9.

Followed up by the threat 'Next time, you'll be pushed so far away, by the time you get back, you children will be grand parents'.

And that people had kept their world 'cloaked' (and entire bloody planet cloaked) for hundreds of years.


Also consider, that Quinn himself said the Q 'had reached a state unrivaled by any species before them'. Also consider that Q himself had said that humanity might be able to one day develop BEYOND the Q.

I think the Q use a combination of natural powers and technology. Like say, some form of telepathy to tell their tech 'okay, I want to pursue the Enterprise - D at a speak just enough to overtake them after a dramatic chase', followed by some advanced force field and subspace application.

This would explain Amanda Rogers nicely. Her natural Q powers are starting to develop, and as a result, she was starting to access Q technology without even realizing it. This is what alerted the Q to her. Consider the power list Q asked her about if she'd done deliberately. "Teleportation, Telekinesis, spontaneous combustion of someone you dislike..."
Teleportation would probably be Technology (I don't think we've ever seen that biologically on Star Trek), but the later two, we've seen done without the use of Technology.
Specifically, the genetically engineered humans (the TNG episode with the 'super aging virus) used TK, and Kes nearly cooked T'vok when Voyager encounted The Caretaker's mate.

Hell, even Amanda's taking control of Riker could be a form of advanced telepathy, ala the Jedi mind trick.

This in turn explains how the Q can take away another Q's powers. They turn off their access to their technology (i.e revoke user privilages), and then use it to suppress their other powers. (We've heard of Psionic inhibitor devices in Star Trek. Quark mentioned in a DS9 episode how they are usually bulky things). This explains Quinn. They lock him away, leaving him access to his powers to return to the Q, but not leave the ice comet he was in. The second he's out, okay, he's back with us, let him use the technology (Which implies some piss poor decision making, but hey, that's government for you). He also can't kill himself using Q technology, as it's got a failsafe on it to prevent it.

This in turn, explains 'Female Q', losing her powers, but not her knowledge. They need to know how their tech works. So, when she's cut off, he remembers what Federation tech can do, and goes 'okay, here is what we need to do'. She then promptly arms Voyager's crew with Q weapons, or grants them access to it anyway, and there we go. And when Voyager leaves, they undo the modifications to Voyager, and wipe all knowledge of the tech from their brains. That way, humanity can't do any reverse engineering and figure out how to handle Q visits.

This also can be extended to 'Q Jr' as well. After leaving, the Q make sure to wipe all traces of their tech use from Voyager's records and Ichep's mind.

You could even extend it to Q Jr's time as an Amoeba. Revoke his access rights, suppress his natural powers, Put his real body into stasis, and using Q-tech, connect his 'mind' to an Amoeba, ala the Matrix. When times up, undo it all, and go 'have you learned your lesson yet?"


Hell, it also explains Q's fear of Guinan, and the 'don't provoke the Borg'.

What if Q's race had some kind of treaty with Guinan's spieces? i.e "no Q tech against us'. Q is now forced to relay on his natural powers to fight Guinan. This leaves Q weaker against her specifically, and would explain his reaction to her in Ten-Forward.

And finally, with the 'do not provoke the Borg'. Either the Q have witnesses what the Borg do when provoked, or the Q don't want to risk the Borg figuring out some sample of Q tech and becoming a threat to them.

[Severeign]

Now, I rather like this discussion ( so much so I signed up for the forums just to make this comment). I'd never considered them as being anything other than a quasi-omnipotent race of beings that have transcended life in our universe, or dimension. I just randomed across this board and have looked over this series of posts, and I am shocked... truly shocked that no one has cited this example.. In Deja Q, When Q, the one we know and love is seperated from his power and forced to live on the enterprise D. The crew is faced with the problem of a moon in a degenerating orbit, which they have to attempt to stabilize, and at one point they ask Q... what he would do to solve this problem, to which he replies...
"I would change the gravitational constant of the universe."
This simple answer is far beyond any of the parlor tricks that we see the Q playing with, this isn't like slapping a ship a few thousand lightyears, creating a barrier that follows and evelopes a ship at warp, or even a complex fantasy (Such as the Qpid episode, when Q actually claims once he's breathed life into his "illusion" he has no idea what it's outcome will be, as the characters have all been given their own will and agenda).
No... Changing the gravitational constant of the universe is far beyond any of that... it's not a parlor trick.
That to me doesn't sound like something technology would be capable of just doing.
They are gods, in the sense that they control reality with apparent impunity, but they have many qualities which one might think a god shouldn't have (such as being able to be stripped of their powers and actually die).
Still though... that answer from Q, to me, implies god-hood.
Hey Q, how would you solve this problem?
I would alter the universe's mechanics, so it was no longer a problem... Duh!

[Purple]

Just a question. Did the E-D not actually do something like that in the end?
With the attempting to use some sort of technobable energy fields to decrease gravity on the moon or something. My memory of the episode is fuzzy thou.

[Stofsk]

It's also possible Q was being flippant in that scene. I don't see that as contradicting the notion that Q derive their powers from advanced technology. Indeed, the fact you can have your powers taken away from you is probably even more an indication.

There is also the sense that there is more to the Q than just whatever power they can use in any given situation. Amanda Rogers from the episode 'TrueQ' was born from two Q who gave up their powers to live on Earth as humans. Yet she developed powers herself (it was implied she was always a little 'lucky' throughout her life, and she began to consciously exert herself in the episode in question), so it seems that simply saying 'could they merely be humanoids with magictech' is inadequate to explain them. I recall a book by Peter David called 'Q-Squared' which dealt with the idea that Trelayne was himself a member of the Q continuum and that Gary Mitchell received Q powers as well, so it's probably not solely a magictech issue but some kind of combination.

[Batman]

Now, I rather like this discussion ( so much so I signed up for the forums just to make this comment). I'd never considered them as being anything other than a quasi-omnipotent race of beings that have transcended life in our universe, or dimension. I just randomed across this board and have looked over this series of posts, and I am shocked... truly shocked that no one has cited this example.. In Deja Q, When Q, the one we know and love is seperated from his power and forced to live on the enterprise D. The crew is faced with the problem of a moon in a degenerating orbit, which they have to attempt to stabilize, and at one point they ask Q... what he would do to solve this problem, to which he replies...
"I would change the gravitational constant of the universe."

Except he never actually didthat did he? And that particular Q is known to be a liar and a braggart. And if you had given this forum a more thorough examination, you'd have noticed it HAS been cited before...and dismissed for the very reasons I mentioned.

This simple answer is far beyond any of the parlor tricks that we see the Q playing with,

It would be...if he ever actually did it. He didn't.

this isn't like slapping a ship a few thousand light years, creating a barrier that follows and envelopes a ship at warp, or even a complex fantasy (Such as the Qpid episode, when Q actually claims once he's breathed life into his "illusion" he has no idea what it's outcome will be, as the characters have all been given their own will and agenda).
No... Changing the gravitational constant of the universe is far beyond any of that... it's not a parlor trick.

Too bad it never actually happened.

That to me doesn't sound like something technology would be capable of just doing.

Because of what? Either something is possible or it is not. The only question is wether or not I have the technology to do it.

They are gods, in the sense that they control reality with apparent impunity,

As evidenced by what, exactly? They can do things the AQ powers can't, but could if given a few thousand years of technological advancement in all probability.

but they have many qualities which one might think a god shouldn't have (such as being able to be stripped of their powers and actually die).

Welcome to non-Abrahamic deities then.

Still though... that answer from Q, to me, implies god-hood.

To me it implies incredible hubris.

Hey Q, how would you solve this problem?
I would alter the universe's mechanics, so it was no longer a problem... Duh!

Which doesn't mean he actually can do so I'm afraid. At best, it means he thinks he can do so.

[Stofsk]

this isn't like slapping a ship a few thousand light years, creating a barrier that follows and envelopes a ship at warp, or even a complex fantasy (Such as the Qpid episode, when Q actually claims once he's breathed life into his "illusion" he has no idea what it's outcome will be, as the characters have all been given their own will and agenda).
No... Changing the gravitational constant of the universe is far beyond any of that... it's not a parlor trick.

Too bad it never actually happened.

Explain how the moon was restored to its proper orbit then.