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Forget about prime directive. Let's say that you are Picard – what would you have done in that situation? Would you have done what they ultimately ended up doing? Would you have let them all die? Would you have told the Boraalans the truth and kept regular contact with them?

I would have gone with the last option. By moving them to another planet without telling them, they have artificially propped up their own mythology and superstitions. It is going to be really hard for them to figure out that they have evolved when the new planet's fossil record seems to refute that. When they discover DNA testing, they'll know that they are fundamentally different from all the other animals. They'll believe that their origins were divinely inspired and they'll have a false sense of exceptionalism. Not only could that stunt their own development, but that could impact the respect they have for the well being of the native animals.

Um-we know for a fact we evolved here and our respect for the well being of the native animals isn't exactly something to brag about you know:

Batman wrote:Um-we know for a fact we evolved here and our respect for the well being of the native animals isn't exactly something to brag about you know:

You are not from the U.S. are you?

blahface wrote:

Batman wrote:Um-we know for a fact we evolved here and our respect for the well being of the native animals isn't exactly something to brag about you know

You are not from the U.S. are you?

Not the real ones at any rate, though I fail to see why this is relevant. Lack of respect for the well being of native animals (as evidenced, by, say, eating them, using them in laboratories, using their hides for clothes, furniture or decoration etc) seems to be pretty much a global phenomenon.

Batman wrote:

blahface wrote:

Batman wrote:Um-we know for a fact we evolved here and our respect for the well being of the native animals isn't exactly something to brag about you know

You are not from the U.S. are you?

Not the real ones at any rate, though I fail to see why this is relevant. Lack of respect for the well being of native animals (as evidenced, by, say, eating them, using them in laboratories, using their hides for clothes, furniture or decoration etc) seems to be pretty much a global phenomenon.

I was just making a joke about American's ignorance of science.

Now, we do have a lot of work to do in the area of animal rights, but we are way ahead of where we used to be. If we didn't know that we were related to animals it would be easier to argue, as Descartes did, that animals are not really conscious and do not feel pain. So, anything that happens to animals would be of no moral concern.

blahface wrote: Now, we do have a lot of work to do in the area of animal rights, but we are way ahead of where we used to be. If we didn't know that we were related to animals it would be easier to argue, as Descartes did, that animals are not really conscious and do not feel pain. So, anything that happens to animals would be of no moral concern.

*scratches head* We pretty much seem to feel that way already anyway. Hell we seem to feel that way towards humans who are the 'wrong' skin colour/religious denomination/political affiliation as it is.

Batman wrote:

blahface wrote: Now, we do have a lot of work to do in the area of animal rights, but we are way ahead of where we used to be. If we didn't know that we were related to animals it would be easier to argue, as Descartes did, that animals are not really conscious and do not feel pain. So, anything that happens to animals would be of no moral concern.

*scratches head* We pretty much seem to feel that way already anyway. Hell we seem to feel that way towards humans who are the 'wrong' skin colour/religious denomination/political affiliation as it is.

I don't think too many people think that animals are not conscious and feel no pain. And yes, as I said before we could do better in the area of animals rights, but things could be a lot worse for animals. We have laws that protect animals from abuse. Even animal testing is regulated. Michael Vick went to prison for fighting and executing dogs. If we believed animals cannot feel pain and we are not concerned with their well being, then why are we worried about what Michael Vick does with his dogs?

blahface wrote:Forget about prime directive. Let's say that you are Picard – what would you have done in that situation? Would you have done what they ultimately ended up doing? Would you have let them all die? Would you have told the Boraalans the truth and kept regular contact with them?

Why is this even a question? Anyone who doesn't go in in force and save as many as possible with the resources at his disposal is a monster, and one would hope he would be put out an airlock by his mutinying crew to make space.

NecronLord wrote:

blahface wrote:Forget about prime directive. Let's say that you are Picard – what would you have done in that situation? Would you have done what they ultimately ended up doing? Would you have let them all die? Would you have told the Boraalans the truth and kept regular contact with them?

Why is this even a question? Anyone who doesn't go in in force and save as many as possible with the resources at his disposal is a monster, and one would hope he would be put out an airlock by his mutinying crew to make space.

It's not just 'Let them die/ save them all', it's about letting them know they've been moved and the level of information given to them as a result.

Well, frankly, it's difficult to decide how they'll react. Remember that one guy went nuts and killed himself because his pea brain couldn't handle the idea of a space ship. Who knows what other contrived crap will break their puny little minds?

Um... Not leave innocent people to die.

Destructionator XIII wrote:I'd let them die. In the grand scheme of things, does it matter if you beamed up thirty or forty of them while who knows how many (a million? ten million?) die on the planet?

And when you plop them down somewhere else, they don't have good odds of surviving for long anyway. Doesn't the Enterprise have better things to do? Maybe save people who actually have a chance of thriving?

You people with your black and white morality disgust me. Especially Necronlord. Yes, let's murder experienced starship captains and who knows how many crewmen just to put forth a futile gesture. That's fucking brilliant.

In any secular "grand scheme of things" the live or death of sentient beings, cultures, or civilizations is irrelevant, so I don't know why you'd argue that as a counter. In any case, how would you deal with the situation as presented in the episode? Kill the Boraalans by beaming them back down (or by more or less direct methods)? How would you deal with objections from the crew in that case? Attempting to prevent Rozhenko from beaming them up altogether?

While I am reluctant and flat out confused by what I am going to say I agree with Destructionator XIII. Unless that tribe has like a million people we did not see on screen they are going to die out anyway in a few generations simply due to inbreeding if nothing else.

What I would do is save the Federation citizen by keeping him on board, teleport the rest back to the planet and hold a grand speech about the principals of the prime directive Janeway style.

Yeah, once they're on the ship, you pretty much have to drop them off somewhere.

Bakustra wrote:Yeah, once they're on the ship, you pretty much have to drop them off somewhere.

Back where they came from? (Empty space in case the planet is gone)

Purple wrote:

Bakustra wrote:Yeah, once they're on the ship, you pretty much have to drop them off somewhere.

Back where they came from? (Empty space in case the planet is gone)

So why do you feel that murder in this case is justified? Once they're on board the Enterprise, their lives are in your hands and you bear full culpability for their deaths if you drop them off somewhere uninhabitable knowingly. (Or Ceti Alpha IV so that the TNG movies could have become rip-offs right from the very beginning, with Star Trek VII: The Revenge of Rozhenko, but that's neither here nor there).

But there is nothing I can do to save them anyway. There are so few of them that no mater what paradise planet I drop them on if the native life does not get them lack of genetic diversity will.